RE: Those awful far-right groups

RE: Those awful far-right groups (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

kdsub -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/8/2015 4:20:59 PM)
Mike if I were to go around speaking of a far left group of people... African Americans for instance, or the Tea party on the far right and say...yes, the evidence suggests that semi-illiterate peasants alone can see any value in the far left or right...you all would have my head on a platter. It seems to be OK for some to group people and assign characteristics to them and not others. I was just calling this double sided way of thinking and pointing it out.... I am not even saying he is wrong just that fair is fair. Butch

slvemike4u -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/8/2015 4:26:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech Ok, guys, if you talk of the Ku Klux Klan, in comparison to the far right you should specify which iteration of the KKK you mean. A> The vigilantes organized to combat excesses of the occupied south and disbanded once the voting and self determination was restored. B> The political movement that used fear of the "Yellow Peril" and immigrants destroying our American way of life back in the 1920s and 1930s. Heck that was a political movement centered in the Midwest and claimed that 1/3 of the country belonged at one time. It fell apart after the national leader was convicted of abducting and raping a secretary. (Yes, in its heyday, the KKK had more members in Ohio and Indiana than they ever had in the deep south.) C> The violent anti-civil rights organization of the 1950s and 1060s. (Don't get me started about Cecil Price and Philadelphia MS) D> The minority organization of David Duke that still tries to sell racial purity as a political issue. <not taken very seriously any more> So, which iteration of the KKK are we talking about that is like the right wing in the UK? Or, is it the John Birch Society that tried to make out everything wrong in the country was due to communist agents? (Substitute Islamic terrorists for communist agents and you could recycle all the old Bircher literature) I still like my Grandfather's take on the KKK back in the early 60s, "A bunch of ignorant rednecks with more anger than sense." And that was the attitude in Neshoba County until they murdered three political activists from Chicago and buried them in a levee. After that; being known as a KKK member caused businesses to be boycotted and people being ostracized to the point of being asked not to attend church services. And those crazy FBI agents... the phrase "mad dogs and Englishmen" comes to mind as they tried to be incognito but they were the only people in a hundred miles wearing black coats and black ties in 100F+ heat. You're kidding me aren't you ? No matter which "iteration" you are referring to they are assholes,they have been such since the day Confederate veterans first banded together and cut peep holes in their damm bed sheets.

MercTech -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/8/2015 5:30:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech Ok, guys, if you talk of the Ku Klux Klan, in comparison to the far right you should specify which iteration of the KKK you mean. A> The vigilantes organized to combat excesses of the occupied south and disbanded once the voting and self determination was restored. B> The political movement that used fear of the "Yellow Peril" and immigrants destroying our American way of life back in the 1920s and 1930s. Heck that was a political movement centered in the Midwest and claimed that 1/3 of the country belonged at one time. It fell apart after the national leader was convicted of abducting and raping a secretary. (Yes, in its heyday, the KKK had more members in Ohio and Indiana than they ever had in the deep south.) C> The violent anti-civil rights organization of the 1950s and 1060s. (Don't get me started about Cecil Price and Philadelphia MS) D> The minority organization of David Duke that still tries to sell racial purity as a political issue. <not taken very seriously any more> So, which iteration of the KKK are we talking about that is like the right wing in the UK? Or, is it the John Birch Society that tried to make out everything wrong in the country was due to communist agents? (Substitute Islamic terrorists for communist agents and you could recycle all the old Bircher literature) I still like my Grandfather's take on the KKK back in the early 60s, "A bunch of ignorant rednecks with more anger than sense." And that was the attitude in Neshoba County until they murdered three political activists from Chicago and buried them in a levee. After that; being known as a KKK member caused businesses to be boycotted and people being ostracized to the point of being asked not to attend church services. And those crazy FBI agents... the phrase "mad dogs and Englishmen" comes to mind as they tried to be incognito but they were the only people in a hundred miles wearing black coats and black ties in 100F+ heat. You're kidding me aren't you ? No matter which "iteration" you are referring to they are assholes,they have been such since the day Confederate veterans first banded together and cut peep holes in their damm bed sheets. Not kidding at all. Historical context as opposed to trying to apply pop culture suppositions on what cultural attitudes were in history. http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/KKK_march_on_Wahington_DC_Pennsylvania_Avenue_1925#.VNgLjS77JyE http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/6689/ During the heyday of the yellow scare; the KKK was seen as a bastion of America and all for family values. Time showed that their message was not valid and the organization, as a national power, died out. Decades later, the name was revived with a message of "states rights and racial integrity" leading to the abuses they championed in the 50s and 60s. Knowing how things were portrayed in their day and the common impression of them leads to understanding a bit better than knee jerk name calling. There have been 4 incarnations of organizations using the name Ku Klux Klan. Know which one a person refers to helps to understand what they are talking about.

NorthernGent -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/8/2015 5:38:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent You'll always be able to find the odd anecdote relating to some journalist being drawn to fascist politics, or some business owner being a football hooligan. But these are the exceptions to the rule. They are overwhelmingly unemployed or in unskilled occupations. John Williams at Liverpool University, among others, has been documenting the lives of football hooligans for years. Wrong again on two counts, the names I gave are factual and not ancedotes. It is easier to check the facts but lazier to rubbish them. It still remains that much of the far right are not just unskilled unemployed louts, we ignore them at our peril. Matthew Goodman (or Goodwin) at Nottingham University has studied the far right for years and concludes that, like the BNP, they have a disproportionate amount of unemployed and low skill workers in their ranks. John Williams at Liverpool University, among others, concluded the same applies to football hooligans. The BNP targeted football hooligans in the '80s and the EDL gave done the same in recent times. My point about your post is that you have picked out 5 or 6 people out of thousands, and these studies emphatically rebuke the notion that they are representative of the socio-economic make up of these far right groups. The studies will be available for you somewhere I'd imagine.

slvemike4u -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/8/2015 5:40:26 PM)
I don't give a shit how they "were portrayed in their day" the fact is it was based on racial scaremongering and bigotry dressed up in mom ,apple pie,and the American dream. No matter what you claim your cause is when you engage in terrorist acts. They were first and foremost always a terrorist organization.....dress it up any way you like.

crazyml -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/8/2015 9:23:05 PM)
And we circle back, for the umpteenth fucking time to the fact that the term "the far right", in the context of this article would NOT include the tea party. In the UK the tea party would be a radical right party.

thishereboi -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/8/2015 10:14:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: The far right are drawn almost exclusively from a part of the population with few qualifications and skills. There's a reason for that. Oh I would love to hear your reasons...but i guess we all know what they would be... conservative people are stupid criminals that love to deal in sex slavery unlike us... the enlightened well educated and well trained. Yep poor people are just dumb asses that is why they are poor... don't we all know that? Butch No. What is being said and warned about is that conservative people are stupid criminals that are WORSE than those who deal in sex slavery and rape rings. Either you can't read, can't comprehend or are willfully manipulating posts. For the benefit of doubt and for the last time: The far right in England is our equivalent of the KKK. I'm assuming you're not much of a fan of the KKK, but perhaps I am mistaken. The KKK is considered by most to be a joke. If the UK is anything like the US or Europe, Jews will continue to be the favored target of hate crimes, not Muslims. So yeah. . . I could not care less if the abusers (who are out on bail WTF?) get their feelings hurt. Given the KKK are viewed as a joke in the United States, then why are you on a crusade to save the conservative name when we call our far right a joke? Mischief or boredom? I would venture to guess it might have something to do with some of the left trying to take groups like the KKK and use them as proof that everyone on the right is a racist and everyone on the left farts peace and love. Now anyone that has lived here for any length of time has met racists on both sides but that doesn't seem to matter. And personally I could give a rat's ass what side of the fence they sit on. My opinion of them couldn't get any lower either way. But it does seem to be effective for the ones who don't actually think it through. I know I was taking it wrong until you explained yourself. Now I think I understand better what you are saying.

NorthernGent -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/9/2015 3:42:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech Gotcha, Rather like the people that think the federal government should legislate what medical care you can obtain. And the ones that want creation science taught in school. And sometimes have representatives to vote to make Pi equal to 3. And it is no longer politically correct to call them idiots when they blither. Especially when their public tantrums make the news cameras. England and the United States are very different countries, one difference being that we are a densely populated small island. This means that in order to co-exist we are compelled to give and take more. The National Health Service has undoubtedly been a success in this country, whether or not it is an idea suited to the United States is another matter. Creation Science being taught in schools? I don't see a problem with this. Where there's enough of a demand then the education should fit the parent's collective desire, and whether or not it influences other children us up to them One of the hallmarks of a healthy society is a spread of ideas, which is why it is not acceptable to ban neo-nazi/far right organisations, no matter how ridiculous their ideas are.

slvemike4u -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/9/2015 3:58:05 AM)
The problem arises when "creation" science is taught to the exclusion of other,actually real ,science . Which is more often than not the result of these school boards meddling in the curriculum . Parents have the right to teach the kids what they want,other parents have the right to expect that their local school is teaching kids what they need to compete in the world,in all fields.

Musicmystery -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/9/2015 6:36:47 AM)
The problem arises when "creation science" is even considered "science" in any context. Where are the tests, the experiments, the published, replicable studies? Because that's what science is. Creationism is faith. Period. Now, if somebody wants to have a class where they discuss how science isn't the only place people turn for explanations, great. I'd suggest adding literature, psychology, history, logic, creative and critical thinking to science and religion as paths people use to explore their worlds.

NorthernGent -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/9/2015 10:31:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u The problem arises when "creation" science is taught to the exclusion of other,actually real ,science . Which is more often than not the result of these school boards meddling in the curriculum . Parents have the right to teach the kids what they want,other parents have the right to expect that their local school is teaching kids what they need to compete in the world,in all fields. Yeah, I think it should be a spread of ideas and let the best idea win. I personally loved Religious Education at school. Thought the various religious philosophies were interesting, and we had an opportunity to discuss the likes of abortion, euthanasia etc. It certainly wasn't Creation Science, and while not religious myself I think I learned some valuable lessons; which in my opinion were far more valuable than what I learned in Maths or French. Regardless of whether or not there is a God, I think there is value in understanding religion.

NorthernGent -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/9/2015 11:30:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 I was just wondering if there was some sort of equivalent of how we in America like Westerns and sometimes take a more idealized approach to history. The reason I ask is because I know some right-wingers who would adamantly deny that they are even the slightest bit racist, yet they still might look at our own past through rose-colored glasses and overlook some of the more "inconvenient" truths of our history. And it's very often the case where, when we Americans turn up in other people's countries, the stated motive of the right-wing is that we're there to save the world from itself, a 21st century version of "White Man's Burden." I don't think wanting to invade other people's countries is the preserve if the right here. The left, many of them, believe we have a duty to help people in trouble, which I suppose is a form of 'the white man's burden'. WW1 changed everything in England, including the idea of glory in war. The education curriculum undertook an about-turn, and we were schooled to believe that war is costly, horrific and something to abhor. Consequently, popular books and television programmes will usually portray war as soldiers mired in horror due to the excesses of politicians and militarists; students of history would not agree. In terms of how this relates to the British Empire, the average person has been conditioned to not look at it with rose tinted spectacles; this does not account for everyone, however. As always the answer lies somewhere in the middle. While England has undoubtedly left a mark on the world by providing a legacy which other people gave copied, the British Army were capable of shooting a lot of people in Amritsar for the crime of peaceful protest. Which of the two other people focus on is their call. My understanding is that it can go both ways in that there are Anglophiles in the world and people who only see Imperialism when thinking of England.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/9/2015 1:59:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u The problem arises when "creation" science is taught to the exclusion of other,actually real ,science . Which is more often than not the result of these school boards meddling in the curriculum . Parents have the right to teach the kids what they want,other parents have the right to expect that their local school is teaching kids what they need to compete in the world,in all fields. I'm not saying it hasn't happened but I'd sure like to see anyone cite one instance where the teaching of creation science to the exclusion of other theories was asked for.

Musicmystery -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/9/2015 2:01:19 PM)
I'd like to see any evidence that "creation science" is science.

slvemike4u -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/9/2015 2:03:12 PM)
Just guessing but I would start my search in Texas,then expand outward in a sort of concentric fashion...you will strike paydirt. I have neither the time nor the inclination at the moment [:)]

Musicmystery -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/9/2015 2:07:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominantI'd sure like to see anyone cite one instance where the teaching of creation science to the exclusion of other theories was asked for. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_Trial

CreativeDominant -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/9/2015 2:08:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Just guessing but I would start my search in Texas,then expand outward in a sort of concentric fashion...you will strike paydirt. I have neither the time nor the inclination at the moment [:)] Don't you think when you make the claim of a problem, you should back it up? Otherwise, it's just an opinion, isn't it...one that, right now, you have not supported.

slvemike4u -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/9/2015 2:10:48 PM)
True,but it looks like Music picked up the slack for me [:)] Are we good now,can I go back to my physical rehab ? lol

CreativeDominant -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/9/2015 2:11:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery I'd like to see any evidence that "creation science" is science. I would too. But that isn't the topic of any of the posts surrounding it on here. In my mind, it's a great story...but not one I take literally.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Those awful far-right groups (2/9/2015 2:48:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominantI'd sure like to see anyone cite one instance where the teaching of creation science to the exclusion of other theories was asked for. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_Trial 1925. A teacher was sued for introducing evolution. Other cases cited concerned "creation science" being introduced alongside evolution and batted down. Except for the Scopes trial, which was more about evolution being introduced, none of the other cases cited have anything to do with someone...like from 1960 onward...asking that "creation science" be taught to the EXCLUSION of other theories.

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625