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RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/17/2015 5:48:16 PM   
epiphiny43


Posts: 688
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline 		How did an accepting or condemning other kinks thread turn into justifying violation of marriage vows? You lie or cheat, shit happens? SURPRISE! 'Relationships', "I never signed anything, I just sorta implied!" is different how?
There's no fixing stupid, where horny dummies go for obvious exploits and scams. Which doesn't give the scammers a pass.
A guy wants to give away a decent income to just have kinky conversations on the phone? (Which he seems incapable of finding elsewhere??) I'm thinking of working on raising my voice? He's a big boy, it's his money. I'm not that interested in building a relationship with a woman doing this, so far. (Right Action, Right thoughts, Right work?)
Kinks are kinks. How ethical they are intrinsically Matters if actual other people are involved. Consent implies full disclosure? Which not only covers some remarkably risky behavior (And the whole 'fresh meat' frenzy on kink web sites!) but both refusing to be tested or actually knowing of STDs and not informing a partner.
As for actually consensual kinks, I don't have to be squicked to see public health issues in some cases but generally don't think it's anyone's business who does what where on whom behind closed doors. I do make it a practice not to build relationships with people whose practices are contradictions with my personal views, in a Lot of areas, kink and other. It's no that much fun hanging out with people where your tongue hurts all the time from biting it in order to maintain the 'friendship'.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/17/2015 5:52:23 PM   
smileforme50


Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/24/2013
From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

E. T.: P.S. they're fucking spider man, not sponge bob, you sick fuckers!

Surrrrrely they are big guy...sure they are.


HA! I know you have Power Rangers ones stashed away.

_____________________________

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“I’m so fucking wet! Give it to me now!”

She could scream all she wanted…..I was keeping the umbrella.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/17/2015 5:55:33 PM   
UnholyBear


Posts: 661
Joined: 10/19/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

P.S. they're fucking spider man, not sponge bob, you sick fuckers!



Well thank the Gods they aren't Dora the Explorer.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/17/2015 6:11:23 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		FR-

I never understood this either.
Please note my use of SOME- and I am not speaking of anyone in particular, or in this thread- just a generic "some"-

I think some folks get bitter they can't be them or afford to be with them.
I think some feel they are diluting the BDSM world and making it "impure" by trying to turn a profit off it.
I think some feel really superior to them in intelligence, morality, and ethics- and some get off on that superiority.
I think some folk in the BDSM world get off on being more edgey/hardcore than their acquaintances- and fin dommes and pro's are usually (< generalizing)- a little more run of the mill.
I think some feel like a Domme isn't really a Domme if she's being given their fantasies, because she's catering to them.

*shrugs* I couldn't care less personally. Get on with your bad self and do you.


(in reply to UnholyBear)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/17/2015 6:14:59 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UnholyBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

P.S. they're fucking spider man, not sponge bob, you sick fuckers!



Well thank the Gods they aren't Dora the Explorer.


I know, some people are just out of their damn minds... wearing Dora the Explorer on a Tuesday... WTF?!?!?


_____________________________

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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/17/2015 6:15:24 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

E. T.: P.S. they're fucking spider man, not sponge bob, you sick fuckers!

Surrrrrely they are big guy...sure they are.


HA! I know you have Power Rangers ones stashed away.
shhhh....Batman

(in reply to smileforme50)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/17/2015 7:12:14 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Aside from the illegal crap which I am very anti... being anti-lifestyle stuff seems to me more pro-butt hurt.

Case in point, there is a lot of anti-pro domme floating around, and yet business at the bunny ranch is booming. Why would anyone be anti-pro domme, it's either you use them or you don't... why the butt hurt?

Now, I am not a Top. I am sick and twisted Primal bastard that gets my freak on... and it is a big freak, once I own her. If I were to play in public it would not resemble consent at all from the outsider looking in, but she knows what she got herself into and did so happily.

That said, there is a HUGE list of things that have no interest for me and things that just squick me the fuck out, but I am not anti-X. Hey, if it is your thing, wooohooo, go get your happy on. For me it is not about "tolerating" X it is about "accepting" X as your thing and it's okay... not my thing, I do not have to participate, and I can wear my big boy underoos and choose to avoid it rather than condemn it.

So wot is it with the Anti-X movement?

Jus wunderin

P.S. they're fucking spider man, not sponge bob, you sick fuckers!


Ty....I'm really glad you got that off your chest.

(Feel better?)

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/17/2015 7:28:14 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

Michael, the difference there is that you actively sought to seduce the married woman after learning of her relationship status. Meanwhile the pro-dommes have clients that seek out/go to them.



But ... but ... but ... she "sought" me out! She told me she was married and wanted to take up with me, anyway. I sent her packing.

If we're gonna get hung up on details: Do pro-Dommes advertise? Do they wear "sexy clothing" in those photos? That could be a form of "seduction". Once that poor chump calls them or goes to their den of iniquity and admits that he's married, does the pro-Domme turn him away or does she see a "business opportunity" and throw morals out the window?

Same thing, really. It doesn't excuse the behavior.

Justify it all you want. Put all the lipstick you want on that pig. I ain't kissing it. It's moral bankruptcy.

BTW, please get it right. I don't fuck married women. I was giving an example. I have morals.



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 2/17/2015 7:29:38 PM >

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/17/2015 7:39:07 PM   
SinFix


Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


But ... but ... but ... she "sought" me out! She told me she was married and wanted to take up with me, anyway. I sent her packing.

If we're gonna get hung up on details: Do pro-Dommes advertise? Do they wear "sexy clothing" in those photos? That could be a form of "seduction". Once that poor chump calls them or goes to their den of iniquity and admits that he's married, does the pro-Domme turn him away or does she see a "business opportunity" and throw morals out the window?

Same thing, really. It doesn't excuse the behavior.

Justify it all you want. Put all the lipstick you want on that pig. I ain't kissing it. It's moral bankruptcy.

BTW, please get it right. I don't fuck married women. I was giving an example. I have morals.



Michael


I feel that this is where personal responsibility comes in, there will always be "temptation" in this world. I think that given this it is each persons responsibility for their morals and holding to them, it's not like they don't know the consequences of their actions.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/17/2015 7:39:34 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Aside from the illegal crap which I am very anti... being anti-lifestyle stuff seems to me more pro-butt hurt.

Case in point, there is a lot of anti-pro domme floating around, and yet business at the bunny ranch is booming. Why would anyone be anti-pro domme, it's either you use them or you don't... why the butt hurt?




It strikes me that you are questioning the activity of others, and that the activity you are questioning is...questioning the activity of others. You might consider why you started this thread in the first place as an answer to your question.

For what it's worth, I think discussion - indeed, debate - is fun. I enjoy playing devil's advocate not because I care so much about convincing anyone to change their mind, but because it's much more interesting to have discourse instead of timid agreement or frenzied, sycophantic support. People who disagree with the generally accepted view of the group are not necessarily "butt hurt." In many cases, they've got some good points but they get lost in the emotional rantings of those who can't accept that someone thinks differently than they do. I can't imagine why you would assume that voicing an opinion equates to being "butt hurt." It's probably just someone doing what all of us are doing - passing the time. Having conversation. Questioning those things that bring forth questions in their mind. Anyone's questions are no more or less valid than anyone else's.






< Message edited by Kaliko -- 2/17/2015 7:40:53 PM >

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/17/2015 7:53:25 PM   
UnholyBear


Posts: 661
Joined: 10/19/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

E. T.: P.S. they're fucking spider man, not sponge bob, you sick fuckers!

Surrrrrely they are big guy...sure they are.


HA! I know you have Power Rangers ones stashed away.
shhhh....Batman




You wear batman undies too???? That is so hawt daddykins

_____________________________

Shameless flirt and just as unholy as ever!

Gauge's cuddlemuffin

CD's manwhore


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/17/2015 8:01:33 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SinFix


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


But ... but ... but ... she "sought" me out! She told me she was married and wanted to take up with me, anyway. I sent her packing.

If we're gonna get hung up on details: Do pro-Dommes advertise? Do they wear "sexy clothing" in those photos? That could be a form of "seduction". Once that poor chump calls them or goes to their den of iniquity and admits that he's married, does the pro-Domme turn him away or does she see a "business opportunity" and throw morals out the window?

Same thing, really. It doesn't excuse the behavior.

Justify it all you want. Put all the lipstick you want on that pig. I ain't kissing it. It's moral bankruptcy.

BTW, please get it right. I don't fuck married women. I was giving an example. I have morals.



Michael


I feel that this is where personal responsibility comes in, there will always be "temptation" in this world. I think that given this it is each persons responsibility for their morals and holding to them, it's not like they don't know the consequences of their actions.


That was nicer than what I typed up Sin.

Personally? I think if you're thinking these men are chumps and these ladies are malicious home wreckers- you're being wayyy sexist. The men "can't help it" and "boys will be boys" right? It takes two to tango. That "temptation" is something both sexes deal with and dish out. in the case of cheating, he is not free of responsibility- stop implying that these women lure them in under false pretenses or that these men can't help it- they can.

Or is the problem that these women don't often have pimps or other men making a profit off their sex work that makes it so prickly for you?

(in reply to SinFix)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/17/2015 8:34:44 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UnholyBear


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

E. T.: P.S. they're fucking spider man, not sponge bob, you sick fuckers!

Surrrrrely they are big guy...sure they are.


HA! I know you have Power Rangers ones stashed away.
shhhh....Batman




You wear batman undies too???? That is so hawt daddykins

You're just thinking of the way the bat body is...stretched.

(in reply to UnholyBear)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/18/2015 12:31:42 AM   
orgasmdenial12


Posts: 613
Joined: 9/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UnholyBear
The onus of fidelity and the morals are solely on the shoulders of a married client who solicits the services of a pro domme.


I disagree. No-one is immune to moral or ethical considerations, especially concerning the nature of their work. The drug dealer is considered as guilty as the addict, in our society, even though it is the addict who seeks out the dealer. When a private investigator is hired to find someone, they must first ascertain that they are not enabling a stalker or an abuser. The morality is not solely the responsibility of the person who pays for the service, it is also upon the person who provides the service. If you choose to make money out of an activity that you know to be based on dishonesty and the manipulation of others which may lead to the suffering of an innocent individual, then that is immoral, regardless of whether it is 'business' or not. In fact it is *more* immoral, because you profited directly from the dishonesty and suffering of others.

In a general way, I have also overseen many conversations between Pro-Dommes where they justified cheating in general, on the basis that the woman was boring or unexciting or didn't allow her husband to explore his fantasies. It is not in the interests of the Pro-Domme to be too honest about the personality and nature of her client, so she shifts the blame for his and her actions onto the innocent woman, which I also consider immoral. To cheat on a woman, to enable cheating on a woman and then to blame that woman for actions she had no part in is profoundly unfair and it entails disassociating from the responsibility of one's own actions, in order to make a profit.

To quote Upton Sinclair “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

Many pro-dommes, imo, have a salary that depends on them 'not understanding' why cheating is wrong and this ideology leaks into and borrows from sexist old ideas about fidelity that disempower women.

Now if you choose to go ahead with a business that does all of this, then that is your choice, but if I choose to think badly of you for it, then that is my choice.

(in reply to UnholyBear)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/18/2015 1:32:34 AM   
NookieNotes


Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant


quote:

ORIGINAL: UnholyBear


The onus of fidelity and the morals are solely on the shoulders >snip<


There it is. Personally, my relationship is sacred and holy and I wouldn't ever do anything to defile the sanctity of my relationship. A functional relationship is hard to come by, a good and functional relationship is like winning the lottery, an exceptional relationship is like winning the lottery every day. I cannot relate to those that could/would cheat, I'm not wired for it so I cannot see nor comprehend the need/desire to cheat... perhaps it is because when I commit to a relationship all else becomes background noise, but I know how to immerse myself in the moment and every moment with her is a slice of heaven... even the hard moments.


This is how I feel.

I have never cheated. Ever.

For me, if I don't feel that a relationship and it's accepted and agreed upon boundaries is enough for me, I try to fix it or I walk. It's simple. Only I am responsible for the agreements I enter. And since I'm poly, that is part of my agreements.

If my partner were to have an affair, I would not blame the "other woman" (or man), because that person did not break an agreement with me. My partner did.

And frankly, if my partner finds a need to break the agreements in our relationship, that is a simple notice to me that our relationship is not what I thought it was, and it's time to re-thing (at the least) or end it.

A person cannot be tempted into cheating if he/she is satiated. If he/she is in the right relationship, satiety should be a simple matter, and well taken care of, within the relationship.

My parents went through something like this. Both of them ended up blissfully happy with others, because they finally got out of each other's way. So, yes, I'm biased.

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
Personally? I think if you're thinking these men are chumps and these ladies are malicious home wreckers- you're being wayyy sexist. The men "can't help it" and "boys will be boys" right? It takes two to tango. That "temptation" is something both sexes deal with and dish out. in the case of cheating, he is not free of responsibility- stop implying that these women lure them in under false pretenses or that these men can't help it- they can.


Agreed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
I disagree. No-one is immune to moral or ethical considerations, especially concerning the nature of their work. The drug dealer is considered as guilty as the addict, in our society, even though it is the addict who seeks out the dealer. When a private investigator is hired to find someone, they must first ascertain that they are not enabling a stalker or an abuser. The morality is not solely the responsibility of the person who pays for the service, it is also upon the person who provides the service. If you choose to make money out of an activity that you know to be based on dishonesty and the manipulation of others which may lead to the suffering of an innocent individual, then that is immoral, regardless of whether it is 'business' or not. In fact it is *more* immoral, because you profited directly from the dishonesty and suffering of others.


Bolded mine.

So, you are saying that pros make money through dishonesty and manipulation of others? How so?



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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/18/2015 1:33:38 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

It strikes me that you are questioning the activity of others, and that the activity you are questioning is...questioning the activity of others. You might consider why you started this thread in the first place as an answer to your question.

For what it's worth, I think discussion - indeed, debate - is fun. I enjoy playing devil's advocate not because I care so much about convincing anyone to change their mind, but because it's much more interesting to have discourse instead of timid agreement or frenzied, sycophantic support. People who disagree with the generally accepted view of the group are not necessarily "butt hurt." In many cases, they've got some good points but they get lost in the emotional rantings of those who can't accept that someone thinks differently than they do. I can't imagine why you would assume that voicing an opinion equates to being "butt hurt." It's probably just someone doing what all of us are doing - passing the time. Having conversation. Questioning those things that bring forth questions in their mind. Anyone's questions are no more or less valid than anyone else's.



There's a contingent, here, that wants me off this site so badly that they'll bully/harass/attempt intimidation (pick your term) to try to get the job done. They've even suggested a return to democratic process (the last bastion of the clique mentality).

I suggest their memory is short. It's been tried before with less then desirable results (for those that attempted it).



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Kaliko)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/18/2015 5:28:00 AM   
AlabamaPrincess


Posts: 134
Joined: 2/4/2015
From: The Dragon's Keep
Status: offline 		I blogged recently about something remotely similar. By that I mean, I was discussing how someone else's actions that do not directly affect you (general 'you') play into your life. In other words, why do you care? Not being snide at all, but if they person at another table orders a rare steak, and you order yours well done, does their order affect you? Or, if your neighbor is strict Vegan and you're a hunter, do you care? Or does it affect you? Same goes with everything, IMO. It takes all kinds to make the world spin, and no matter how "butt-hurt" someone gets over what others are doing, the sun will still rise the next day. Personally, I think it's a complete waste of time to worry about the neighbor eating veggies, or the hooker on the corner. My grandmother used to say "If we'd all tend to our own knitting, we'd have a wonderfully warm blanket to sleep under"......I try to follow that advice.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/18/2015 5:32:43 AM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		Whatttt?

Michael, I do not want you off these board. But the way you have been running around here with this sexist attitude- is sure to ruffle some feathers.

Furthermore- my little post up there was not only directed at you, but also orgasmdenial who seems to be on the same page as you.

I have not even recieved a single message on the other side from someone on the board, so, unfortunately I don't think this is the conspiracy you think it is.

Beyond that I too ask both you and orgasm denial- what is to stop a man (or woman) from cheating for free? Why do you feel this is the basis of their business? And how do you feel they lie? Do you really think their clients confess they are married?

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/18/2015 6:39:20 AM   
UnholyBear


Posts: 661
Joined: 10/19/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

quote:

ORIGINAL: UnholyBear
The onus of fidelity and the morals are solely on the shoulders of a married client who solicits the services of a pro domme.


I disagree. No-one is immune to moral or ethical considerations, especially concerning the nature of their work. The drug dealer is considered as guilty as the addict, in our society, even though it is the addict who seeks out the dealer. When a private investigator is hired to find someone, they must first ascertain that they are not enabling a stalker or an abuser. The morality is not solely the responsibility of the person who pays for the service, it is also upon the person who provides the service. If you choose to make money out of an activity that you know to be based on dishonesty and the manipulation of others which may lead to the suffering of an innocent individual, then that is immoral, regardless of whether it is 'business' or not. In fact it is *more* immoral, because you profited directly from the dishonesty and suffering of others.

In a general way, I have also overseen many conversations between Pro-Dommes where they justified cheating in general, on the basis that the woman was boring or unexciting or didn't allow her husband to explore his fantasies. It is not in the interests of the Pro-Domme to be too honest about the personality and nature of her client, so she shifts the blame for his and her actions onto the innocent woman, which I also consider immoral. To cheat on a woman, to enable cheating on a woman and then to blame that woman for actions she had no part in is profoundly unfair and it entails disassociating from the responsibility of one's own actions, in order to make a profit.

To quote Upton Sinclair “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

Many pro-dommes, imo, have a salary that depends on them 'not understanding' why cheating is wrong and this ideology leaks into and borrows from sexist old ideas about fidelity that disempower women.

Now if you choose to go ahead with a business that does all of this, then that is your choice, but if I choose to think badly of you for it, then that is my choice.



Yet you also have to remember that it is the male who chose to seek out the services of a pro domme, he was the one who made that call to book an appointment, he was the one who went to the pro domme...so yes, the responsibility rests sole;y on his shoulders regarding the poor choices made.



_____________________________

Shameless flirt and just as unholy as ever!

Gauge's cuddlemuffin

CD's manwhore


(in reply to orgasmdenial12)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd - 2/18/2015 6:40:46 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko


It strikes me that you are questioning the activity of others, and that the activity you are questioning is...questioning the activity of others. You might consider why you started this thread in the first place as an answer to your question.



When we have a slave vs sub thread everyone weighs in why they "self identify as X" and it always turns heated because how one identifies is personal to them and should not be judged by me (or anyone else). For the most part we "accept" how someone self identifies rather than tolerate it. It's easier to accept it because if you're not in a relationship with that person how can you really say one way or the other?

We are here to indulge in "iniquitous" behavior, and I find "iniquitous" an appropriate word because many have to remain very clandestine in WIITWD. What I find reprehensible is one facet of WIITWD is "shunned" for one reason or the other. It's simply about choices. There are a whole slew of things I choose to not participate in for one reason or the other, but it puts no burr under my saddle for you to do so.

There are many topics that are closed, forbidden, shunned on this site because of the legal implications of those topics, and unless/until pro-domme becomes forbidden on this site I fail to understand the campaign of condemnation. If a pro-domme is your kink, wooohooo, more power to you, if not, who the fuck cares?

That said, who are we to form the angry mobs of "you can't sit with us" over a legitimate and legal kink?

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to Kaliko)
Profile   Post #: 40
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