RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (Full Version)

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ExiledTyrant -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 6:42:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


There's a contingent, here, that wants me off this site so badly that they'll bully/harass/attempt intimidation (pick your term) to try to get the job done. They've even suggested a return to democratic process (the last bastion of the clique mentality).

I suggest their memory is short. It's been tried before with less then desirable results (for those that attempted it).



Michael



You're not significant enough in reality to warrant a conspiracy, regardless of what your delusional ego tells you.

Jus sayin




ExiledTyrant -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 6:44:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlabamaPrincess

I blogged recently about something remotely similar. By that I mean, I was discussing how someone else's actions that do not directly affect you (general 'you') play into your life. In other words, why do you care? Not being snide at all, but if they person at another table orders a rare steak, and you order yours well done, does their order affect you? Or, if your neighbor is strict Vegan and you're a hunter, do you care? Or does it affect you? Same goes with everything, IMO. It takes all kinds to make the world spin, and no matter how "butt-hurt" someone gets over what others are doing, the sun will still rise the next day. Personally, I think it's a complete waste of time to worry about the neighbor eating veggies, or the hooker on the corner. My grandmother used to say "If we'd all tend to our own knitting, we'd have a wonderfully warm blanket to sleep under"......I try to follow that advice.


Same page ;)




UnholyBear -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 7:06:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant


quote:

ORIGINAL: UnholyBear


The onus of fidelity and the morals are solely on the shoulders >snip<


There it is. Personally, my relationship is sacred and holy and I wouldn't ever do anything to defile the sanctity of my relationship. A functional relationship is hard to come by, a good and functional relationship is like winning the lottery, an exceptional relationship is like winning the lottery every day. I cannot relate to those that could/would cheat, I'm not wired for it so I cannot see nor comprehend the need/desire to cheat... perhaps it is because when I commit to a relationship all else becomes background noise, but I know how to immerse myself in the moment and every moment with her is a slice of heaven... even the hard moments.


Jus sayin




Since this thread has now steered towards infidelity and who should be accountable then you all better lump me in with the ones who are condemned as cheaters. No this isn't aimed at you specifically Tyrant but your post gave the perfect opportunity for me).
Thing is my own sense of morality or lack thereof is solely on my shoulders and not anyone else's. Have I cheated...yes I have. I have had affairs with people who were otherwise in a committed relationship with someone else and their partner/spouse was unaware until we were caught.

In a couple cases, it was the other person who pursued me and I chose not to walk away and say no. Hell, for the longest time, I willingly and deliberately chased married trade because they were safe for me since I didn't need to worry about commitment from a person who was married to someone else.







UnholyBear -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 7:07:50 AM)

~FR~

Frankly this is turning out to be one more thread to bash pro dommes. yet again




AlabamaPrincess -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 8:35:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlabamaPrincess

I blogged recently about something remotely similar. By that I mean, I was discussing how someone else's actions that do not directly affect you (general 'you') play into your life. In other words, why do you care? Not being snide at all, but if they person at another table orders a rare steak, and you order yours well done, does their order affect you? Or, if your neighbor is strict Vegan and you're a hunter, do you care? Or does it affect you? Same goes with everything, IMO. It takes all kinds to make the world spin, and no matter how "butt-hurt" someone gets over what others are doing, the sun will still rise the next day. Personally, I think it's a complete waste of time to worry about the neighbor eating veggies, or the hooker on the corner. My grandmother used to say "If we'd all tend to our own knitting, we'd have a wonderfully warm blanket to sleep under"......I try to follow that advice.


Same page ;)



Thanx...I admit in my younger years I wasn't following this philosophy. It's only since actually "growing up" so to speak did I come to the realization that the only person that gave a damn was me. So yeah, once I stopped doing that, my life got incredibly easy.




orgasmdenial12 -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 10:04:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
If you choose to make money out of an activity that you know to be based on dishonesty and the manipulation of others which may lead to the suffering of an innocent individual, then that is immoral, regardless of whether it is 'business' or not.

So, you are saying that pros make money through dishonesty and manipulation of others? How so?


Most pro-dommes freely admit that the majority of their clients are married and cheating. Not only do they know this, but they justify it and encourage others to justify it too. This obviously involves an acceptance of deceit and the manipulation of others.

I should be clear that not all pro-dommes do this; some pro-dommes work very hard to reject the married and cheating clients and I respect that. Sadly, such pro-dommes seem to be in the minority.




shiftyw -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 10:14:39 AM)

^ do most pro dommes admit that??? I have never seen anyone gloating about it like you seem to have so we have very different experiences- perhaps a middle ground is more realistic.

Where does the manipulation come in here? Why, again, do the clients not have to also be held responsible for breaking their vows?
And AGAIN- why are we acting like these married men are the victims? They are WILLING participants.

I may be in the minority here...but I think if all married men stopped seeing fin/pro dommes- do we REALLY think their business would dry up? I don't.




stef -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 10:17:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

You're not significant enough in reality to warrant a conspiracy, regardless of what your delusional ego tells you.

Jus sayin

Maybe he's a bigger fan of the reefer than he let on in that other thread? Paranoia will destroy ya'!




ExiledTyrant -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 10:18:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
If you choose to make money out of an activity that you know to be based on dishonesty and the manipulation of others which may lead to the suffering of an innocent individual, then that is immoral, regardless of whether it is 'business' or not.

So, you are saying that pros make money through dishonesty and manipulation of others? How so?


Most pro-dommes freely admit that the majority of their clients are married and cheating. Not only do they know this, but they justify it and encourage others to justify it too. This obviously involves an acceptance of deceit and the manipulation of others.

I should be clear that not all pro-dommes do this; some pro-dommes work very hard to reject the married and cheating clients and I respect that. Sadly, such pro-dommes seem to be in the minority.


It still comes down to the client choosing to compromise or out right disregard their integrity.

Not all cops are bad, but if we choose to classify all cops as villains because of the actions of a few, what are we really saying about ourselves?

As you said, not all pro-dommes are bad, but a niche is being targeted because a few are (not an opinion I share). It's not my place to judge them, I do not participate with them, and it is not my place to judge those that use them... it's their thing.

I'm not gay or bi, but I think that it is egregious that gay marriage is even a debate, all shrouded in religious doctrine that has no business seeing the inside of a court of law.

Jus sayin




ExiledTyrant -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 10:20:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

You're not significant enough in reality to warrant a conspiracy, regardless of what your delusional ego tells you.

Jus sayin

Maybe he's a bigger fan of the reefer than he let on in that other thread? Paranoia will destroy ya'!


[sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif]

The goddess of snark has spoken!

~stef, you should really write a book: the art of snark.




orgasmdenial12 -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 10:21:59 AM)

Lest it be thought that I unfairly accuse pro-dommes of views and actions that are not supported by objective evidence, I did a quick ten minute search on the views of pro-dommes and cheating. The following represent a selection of comments on the subject.

quote:


There is also the submissive who is feeling guilty and asks if I think he is cheating on his wife. I empathize and gently share My take on it all. Seeing a proDomme is an event and I don’t want the client leaving with anything but a good feeling about getting his needs met.


quote:


Some men are scared to ask their partners to enact their fantasies because they worry it will cause offence, and other’s prefer to maintain the dominant role at home for traditional reasons, and seek out submissive role play scenarios from a professional.


quote:


If I have to describe the general type it would be a man 30-50 executive position. Got married, had children, loves his family very much but needs an outlet for his kink.


quote:


I think BDSM is hardwired into your genes, if your partner doesn't understand it or doesn't share it, you can't really always hide it and live without it, if it makes your marriage/relationship better if you have sessions, by all means do so, but then it is your duty to hide it from your SO and make sure she doesn't get hurt by the knowledge. It might not be the most moral thing to do, but it definitely is better than having a frustrated partner because he has no outlet, which will create even more problems in the relationship.


quote:


as a responsible partner, if they know their other half would be upset and hurt, they owe them the respect to behave in a way so that the partner won't find out, that's just common decency. Why upset somebody who's only fault is that they are not wired that way?


quote:


if a partner isn't into it because they are not wired that way, it might be best to hide it to avoid potential hurt. Since it is not a danger to the relationship, why throw the partner through all the insecurity and doubts that often happen? There is something like too much honesty, or honesty that serves no other purpose than keeping one's conscience clean, but that then is for the price of leaving another person with all the doubts.


quote:


If you are truly a sub in your heart and you cannot find satisfaction at home what are your alternatives?


quote:


If you cannot find satisfaction at home a service provider may be the best choice for you. Who knows? You may have a wife who understands you and is willing to turn a blind eye to your seeking satisfaction outside the relationship. Unfortunately for the majority of men, such women are rare. More likely you will have to lie about your outside interests and live a double life.


quote:


It is indeed lying to play with a Domina and not ask your partner's permission before hand. But, with most of My clients, they are not in a kink friendly relationship and this type of communication is not possible. Is the sub being faithful to his heart and loves his spouse exclusively? Then he is not cheating.


quote:


In some circumstances the relationship could even be improved when one partner is unaware of the other visiting a pro-Domina. I think I just have an issue with the absolutism inherent in the concept of cheating. It demands that a couple remain exclusive to each other in all circumstances, but bloody-mindedly refuses to allow for the idea that the considered involvement of third-parties may actually benefit the relationship.



quote:


A Letter to the Women Whose Husband/Boyfriend is Seeing Me

I realize this is awkward for everyone involved, especially since I’m poly and morally against cheating but I have some things to say; Your husband/boyfriend/lover/whatever saw me, I don’t know if he told you but I’m sorry if he didn’t. It’s not my intention to steal him from you, to ruin your relationship, to hurt you, to hurt him or otherwise cause you harm. Honestly, it’s kind of up to him if he’s going to cheat but I understand if you hate me for it and I respect that; You have a right to be angry. I hope that my words can bring you some comfort.

As I said before, I have no wish to cause any harm to your life or the life of your partner. In fact, I consider it part of my job to make sure that he gets out unscathed emotionally, physically, psychologically, socially and in any other way I can think of. In my mind, I’m a safe outlet for his desires; With me he can explore the depths of his mind and still come back to you and your children (if you have them.) When he sees me he doesn’t have to worry about how it will affect his long-term relationship with you or whether his boss will find out, he just gets to explore and then go back to his every day life as if nothing had happened. Believe me, it’s in my best interest to make sure he leaves in the same condition in which he arrived. This means I will be everything in my power to not give him any sort of disease or infection (I did not fuck your partner and everything he touched was sanitized before and after), nor any permanent marks.

I know it’s hard to wrap your head around the idea that he might seek someone for depraved activities and it might seem unnatural but everyone has dark desires some where in their head and neglecting/avoiding them isn’t healthy. Really, seeing me is probably the best option; He’s not emotionally involved with me, I’m not going to tell other people about him, I’m going to make sure he’s safe and I respect your relationship. I hope you can understand that once you get past the anger.

I guess what I’m saying here is that when your husband/boyfriend/lover/partner/dad/son/brother enters my dungeon, I am pledging to keep him safe and to make sure his life stays intact after he leaves my space.


Notice that although they were fully aware that they were facilitating cheaters, none of them said 'so I decided not to see him anymore'. Also notice the ideology at play - all of them seek to minimise what they are doing, to highlight how it is really a positive or, at least, harmless activity. Finally, notice how none of them seem to blame the men for what they do - all of them suggest that the men had no choice in the matter, as though they simply woke up one day, married to someone they didn't choose, with no way out of it, and that cheating was the least harmful course of action.

All of which reinforces the ideology - you don't *really* need to be honest with women about your sexuality because it's in women's interests for you to lie about your sexuality. Except it isn't in our interests, it's just peddling BS for the sake of making a buck, and it's BS that actively encourages the deceit of others. I just can't see it as anything other than immoral.

It's also worth pointing out that some pro-dommes also see it as immoral, and manage their clients accordingly. So it's not impossible or impractical to do, it's just that many pro-dommes choose not to for the sake of money, convenience or even a kind of female superiority complex, where they get off on the idea that they've got one over these silly other women who force their husbands to cheat.




ExiledTyrant -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 10:28:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12


Notice that although they were fully aware that they were facilitating cheaters


You left out a few key points:

1. The gun she stuck to his head forcing him to cheat.
2. The Blackmail she used to force him to cheat.
3. The ransom she used to force him to cheat.




NookieNotes -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 11:09:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
If you choose to make money out of an activity that you know to be based on dishonesty and the manipulation of others which may lead to the suffering of an innocent individual, then that is immoral, regardless of whether it is 'business' or not.

So, you are saying that pros make money through dishonesty and manipulation of others? How so?


Most pro-dommes freely admit that the majority of their clients are married and cheating. Not only do they know this, but they justify it and encourage others to justify it too. This obviously involves an acceptance of deceit and the manipulation of others.

I should be clear that not all pro-dommes do this; some pro-dommes work very hard to reject the married and cheating clients and I respect that. Sadly, such pro-dommes seem to be in the minority.


I still don't see the pro-domme's dishonesty or manipulation.

She is not the one lying, and she is not forcing the man to use her services.

Frankly, I don't see a problem with it. If they weren't paying a pro-domme, they'd be running around getting it free. It's the men, the the pro.




AlabamaPrincess -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 12:58:11 PM)

Getting paid for sex, as we all know, is the oldest profession in the world. So I have to ask, are you including that all who see a pro Domme are going for the sex? Or are you also including those that go for the submissive release? I can see a person being married to a very "proper" or "prude" mate, which initially was grand, only now they've 'grown' and want to explore other venues. They love their mate dearly, but in order not to upset the balance, they see a pro Domme and get a good spanking once a month. Is that still cheating? And I guess maybe I'll ask this....if I choose to eat at McDonald's, am I to blame them for making me fat?




PeonForHer -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 1:23:21 PM)

FR

In a way I find this thread peculiar. My take has been that of the two sexes, it's actually women who most readily castigate other women for having 'loose morals' - not men. From what I've experienced, the pejoratives spring more readily to women's lips than men's - words like 'tart', 'whore' and 'slut'. (In fact, I have a a little hypothesis that most of those pejorative terms were *invented* by women, though that's another story.)







shiftyw -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 1:57:06 PM)

^ I agree to a certain extent.

But, I have to ask, do you think these men are seeing these Dommes in secret isn't a result of them being a little ashamed about it? Denying themselves what they really want? Do you think these men consider them "marriage material" if they are cheating on their wives with them?




PeonForHer -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 2:11:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

^ I agree to a certain extent.

But, I have to ask, do you think these men are seeing these Dommes in secret isn't a result of them being a little ashamed about it? Denying themselves what they really want? Do you think these men consider them "marriage material" if they are cheating on their wives with them?


Yep. I think it's pretty clear that they're a little ashamed about it. I think it's one of those established truths that what men see as 'whoa, so sexy' and 'marriage material' are frequently not the same thing.






shiftyw -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 2:18:04 PM)

Is that not also slut shaming? Isn't that so annoying that a women who owns her sexuality isn't marriage material or moral? Even to those who lust after them?




PeonForHer -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 2:22:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Is that not also slut shaming? Isn't that so annoying that a women who owns her sexuality isn't marriage material or moral? Even to those who lust after them?


Yes, quite possibly, to both.




MissKatya -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/18/2015 3:51:26 PM)

I've been glazing over this thread and the basic commentary that I am seeing from certain individuals is that:

1) Pro-Dommes are manipulative
2) Pro-Dommes are liars
3) Pro-Dommes do it only for money
4) Pro-Dommes are incapable of having a lifestyle of personal D/s relationship due to #3

While I cannot speak for the majority of the Pro-Domme community (they didn't approve my "spokesperson" application yet), I can speak for myself and the women who I personally know.

Before I make my comments, I just want to go on record to state that my comments are directed towards the latter portion of this thread and not the original post. I know not everyone agrees with Professional Domination....I'm cool with that. I just wanted to comment on that whole issue with Pro's and cheating.

First, I find it highly insulting when someone goes into that whole "Pro-Dommes only do it for money" because in a way, you are insinuating that the entire BDSM community is incapable of seeing past their proverbial hard-ons and making BDSM into an enjoyable, lifelong career. That taking something you love and is a part of you and turning it into a working career is wrong and impossible. People choose professions that they love every day-if someone is devoted to being a doctor or lawyer, does it make them any less of a doctor or lawyer if they charge a fee?

Also, there is a unrealistic concept that being a Pro-Domme is easy money. It's not. It really isn't. It's a lot of work and if we didn't love what we did, we wouldn't do it. A good indicator if a Domme is in it for just the money or it's a career-years of professional experience. Many who do it for the money usually drop out after a year or two because they figured out that it's not easy money. So that whole "doing it for the money" comment is getting real old now. Do people do it for money? Oh sure...but is every Pro-Domme like that? No.

A good portion of us are also lifestyle. I have/had personal relationships. They are in a different realm from my professional ones. If you and I were meeting at a munch, chances are, you would never know I was a Pro-Domme...and chances are, you would bash Pro-Dommes while complimenting me at the same time. I love when I get those "You're not one of those money Dommes, you are very serious about what you do" comments...love them!

Anyway, to answer the "cheating" debate. It's tomato/tomatoe.

Pro-Dommes offer the ability for men to live out their kink, whether they are single or married. It's not our responsibility to ask for marital status because it is assumed that the person who is approaching us is able to session with no strings attached. Do married men approach us? Of course. Do I know this right off the bat? Not always.

Since I am not having sex with these men, I do not see their desire to session with me as cheating. To be honest, I am more concerned if someone is a psychopath than if they are married. Also, 99% of the time, I have no idea if they are married or not. Usually this information comes out in idle conversation, once I get to know someone better.

But if we were to enforce a "single men only" policy, the conversation would go something like this;

Him: I would like to have a session with you (note that he approaches me and not the other way around)
Me: That's great-tell me your interests to see if we are a good match (**does required interview, etc**). Also, I need to know if you are married or single. Also, to prove that you are indeed single, I will need your full name, address, employment, and SSI so I can do a background check to make sure you aren't lying to me.

**crickets chirping**

See how odd this is? Think of it in vanilla terms-Do you go to a OB/GYN's or Proctologist's office and ask the doctor if they are single because your examination means that they are cheating on their spouse by looking at your Vag or diddling a finger up your bum? No? Ok because the same concept applies to Pro-Domination.

With that being said, yes, a decent amount (Not as much as you may believe though-I'm going to say 60/40) of who we session with are married or in a committed relationship. It doesn't mean that they don't love their spouses any less by seeing a Pro-Domme. It means that they love them so much seeing us is a healthy alternative to act out their kinks without disrupting their personal life. We meet, we play, we chat and we go onto our lives.

Out of those married subs, a small percentage of them keep it from their wives. Most of them have either tried to get their spouses involved in their kink and they either didn't like it or their spouses were once kinky with them and decided it's not their thing and are allowed them to see a Pro-Domme. And it's a lot more than you believe. And yes, I do talk to their spouses on occasion. It's not all trench-coats and glasses when it comes to Pro-Domination.

As for the manipulating portion of this thread....I just can't respond to it without getting angry. The only manipulating I am capable of doing is twisting a guy's dick into a balloon toy.

That's a CBT joke, by the way.






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