quote:

Wouldn't it be "our" fault too?

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ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Mike you are making excuses for people that refuse to help themselves...It costs nothing to teach your children respect for themselves and others... It cost nothing to make sure your children go to school and do their homework... It costs nothing to make sure your kids are at home in bed late at night not running the streets in gangs. It costs nothing to pick up the phone and report crime...It costs nothing to show your kids that they must give respect to receive it.

I did all this...so can they...IT COSTS NOTHING

Butch

My mother used to always say "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink".. parents can try to do that but ultimately its really up to the kid what he/she does.. Even if those parents had tried to teach this guy differently, there is no guarantee which way he would have gone.. as a kid gets older, his/her friends are probably much more effective as influencers than stuffy old fogy lecturing parents are..

In this case part of the blame is on the parents but not all of it.. if he had any brains he would have figured things out on his own and made better choices on his own..

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Mike you are making excuses for people that refuse to help themselves...It costs nothing to teach your children respect for themselves and others... It cost nothing to make sure your children go to school and do their homework... It costs nothing to make sure your kids are at home in bed late at night not running the streets in gangs. It costs nothing to pick up the phone and report crime...It costs nothing to show your kids that they must give respect to receive it.

I did all this...so can they...IT COSTS NOTHING

Butch

My mother used to always say "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink".. parents can try to do that but ultimately its really up to the kid what he/she does.. Even if those parents had tried to teach this guy differently, there is no guarantee which way he would have gone.. as a kid gets older, his/her friends are probably much more effective as influencers than stuffy old fogy lecturing parents are..

In this case part of the blame is on the parents but not all of it.. if he had any brains he would have figured things out on his own and made better choices on his own..

I agree. I must add though that with the parents thinking the thug is the victims indicates that their values are to messed up to have even tried to set him straight.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
Yes, as we have explained to you time after time, but you pretend that your wisdom outweighs the writings of the people who wrote the 2nd, he was carrying in compliance and within the intent of the 2nd.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
I thank you for contributing to the real point and and telling us what you think about the man who intervened and what you think about the family's stance. However, your many "suspicions" are wrong. This story popped up on my Facebook yesterday and was the first I heard of it, that is why it is posted. I do not normally participate in these forums so have no idea how conspiracy theories about forum politics can apply to me?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Also, your suspicions that this is a gun thread are wrong. It's about social morals and law. This thread would be the same if the robber had a knife and the Good Samaritan stabbed him to stop him. My only question was about morals and how the family could think like that, not about guns. Imposing your own gun agenda on this thread is your doing, not mine.

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ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Yes, as we have explained to you time after time, but you pretend that your wisdom outweighs the writings of the people who wrote the 2nd, he was carrying in compliance and within the intent of the 2nd.

No he wasnt.....

Did the founding father's intent on the 2nd allow for brigands to have guns? How about highwaymen? Pirates? Looters? Barbarians? Thugs? Since movements before a guilty verdict is reached in a criminal case, the accused are still considered 'honest and law abiding' citizens. Just like Timothy McVeigh a day before his guilty verdict. Wasn't he a gun owner....

The 2nd was very clear on the organization: The Milita. But not any kind of militia, but "A well regulated...". That implies each state to create their own rules on the militia while respecting the whole of the US Constitution and the amendments. A farmer that grows wheat and is part of a well regulated (and local) militia has a gun. So does a hunter whom kills deer for his trade. They both use a musket (for the sake of the argument). If the state banned all muskets, which of those two would not have to turn over their arm? The farmer. Because his arm is protected under the 2nd amendment. The hunter would either have to use a different arm or find a new career.

You cant ignore the parts of an amendment you dont like or are just inconvenient to your political viewpoint. Would you like the US government to ignore the first half of the 8th amendment and reinterpet the second half anyway it wants? You would have to say 'yes', otherwise....

You cant do that on the 8th amendment, nor 25 other amendments, and....CERTAINTY....not on the 2nd!

There are only four ways to reinterpret an amendment under the US Constitution. This is found under Article 5. To date only two of the four ways have ever been used. And none of the methods have been used after the Bill of Rights was in place with regards to the 2nd amendment. So legally speaking, could the 2nd amendment be reinterpreted? Since you have a gun, I could ask 'Who is your CO' and 'what is their phone number'. I could look up on a state charter for your militia and see your name (governments in the US are known for their record keeping after all!). That would show your in a militia. I could then look up the laws in your state and any from the Federal government since regarding your militia.

But your not in a militia, nor have a CO. So somewhere along the way the 2nd got corrupted. And with any corruption, bad shit usually follows. We shouldn't have be surprised by firearms being misused, mishandled, and misfired. That negligence and carelessness do considerable damages. That a weapon that is easy to come by, easy to use, and is very efficient compared to all other methods of destruction; and is not a concern of the citizens is really bad.

The guy having a gun is not an example of the '2nd amendment' in action. He's the metaphorical 'hunter' from above, rather than the 'farmer'. None the less, the guy is a hero and hopefully he gets good rewards for such bravery.

The nature of my post was not about the 2nd amendment, but on something else....

quote:

joether

I could ask 'Who is your CO'....

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ORIGINAL: SadisticDomCpl

There are so many people in this country getting shot while they're NOT committing a crime that this family's whining qualifies as comedy.

What happened to this fellow was just a hazard of his chosen occupation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Yes, as we have explained to you time after time, but you pretend that your wisdom outweighs the writings of the people who wrote the 2nd, he was carrying in compliance and within the intent of the 2nd.

No he wasnt.....

Did the founding father's intent on the 2nd allow for brigands to have guns? How about highwaymen? Pirates? Looters? Barbarians? Thugs? Since movements before a guilty verdict is reached in a criminal case, the accused are still considered 'honest and law abiding' citizens. Just like Timothy McVeigh a day before his guilty verdict. Wasn't he a gun owner....

The 2nd was very clear on the organization: The Milita. But not any kind of militia, but "A well regulated...". That implies each state to create their own rules on the militia while respecting the whole of the US Constitution and the amendments. A farmer that grows wheat and is part of a well regulated (and local) militia has a gun. So does a hunter whom kills deer for his trade. They both use a musket (for the sake of the argument). If the state banned all muskets, which of those two would not have to turn over their arm? The farmer. Because his arm is protected under the 2nd amendment. The hunter would either have to use a different arm or find a new career.

You cant ignore the parts of an amendment you dont like or are just inconvenient to your political viewpoint. Would you like the US government to ignore the first half of the 8th amendment and reinterpet the second half anyway it wants? You would have to say 'yes', otherwise....

You cant do that on the 8th amendment, nor 25 other amendments, and....CERTAINTY....not on the 2nd!

There are only four ways to reinterpret an amendment under the US Constitution. This is found under Article 5. To date only two of the four ways have ever been used. And none of the methods have been used after the Bill of Rights was in place with regards to the 2nd amendment. So legally speaking, could the 2nd amendment be reinterpreted? Since you have a gun, I could ask 'Who is your CO' and 'what is their phone number'. I could look up on a state charter for your militia and see your name (governments in the US are known for their record keeping after all!). That would show your in a militia. I could then look up the laws in your state and any from the Federal government since regarding your militia.

But your not in a militia, nor have a CO. So somewhere along the way the 2nd got corrupted. And with any corruption, bad shit usually follows. We shouldn't have be surprised by firearms being misused, mishandled, and misfired. That negligence and carelessness do considerable damages. That a weapon that is easy to come by, easy to use, and is very efficient compared to all other methods of destruction; and is not a concern of the citizens is really bad.

The guy having a gun is not an example of the '2nd amendment' in action. He's the metaphorical 'hunter' from above, rather than the 'farmer'. None the less, the guy is a hero and hopefully he gets good rewards for such bravery.

The nature of my post was not about the 2nd amendment, but on something else....

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Mike you are making excuses for people that refuse to help themselves...It costs nothing to teach your children respect for themselves and others... It cost nothing to make sure your children go to school and do their homework... It costs nothing to make sure your kids are at home in bed late at night not running the streets in gangs. It costs nothing to pick up the phone and report crime...It costs nothing to show your kids that they must give respect to receive it.

I did all this...so can they...IT COSTS NOTHING

Butch

My mother used to always say "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink".. parents can try to do that but ultimately its really up to the kid what he/she does.. Even if those parents had tried to teach this guy differently, there is no guarantee which way he would have gone.. as a kid gets older, his/her friends are probably much more effective as influencers than stuffy old fogy lecturing parents are..

In this case part of the blame is on the parents but not all of it.. if he had any brains he would have figured things out on his own and made better choices on his own..

I agree. I must add though that with the parents thinking the thug is the victims indicates that their values are to messed up to have even tried to set him straight.

yeah, the parents' values are messed up and the kid didn't have the brains to figure that out and set himself on a better path.. but there are plenty of well off/rich parents that do the very same thing when their little precious Timmy does something illegal/criminal.. the only difference is that the rich parents have the money to hire a good lawyer or they can try to buy off the victim to get their brat off ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
I thank you for contributing to the real point and and telling us what you think about the man who intervened and what you think about the family's stance. However, your many "suspicions" are wrong. This story popped up on my Facebook yesterday and was the first I heard of it, that is why it is posted. I do not normally participate in these forums so have no idea how conspiracy theories about forum politics can apply to me?

That I could believe! Most of the time, these threads get generated within a day or two of such events. You would be surprised what sort of conspiracy theories get generated (and debunked) on this forum.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Also, your suspicions that this is a gun thread are wrong. It's about social morals and law. This thread would be the same if the robber had a knife and the Good Samaritan stabbed him to stop him. My only question was about morals and how the family could think like that, not about guns. Imposing your own gun agenda on this thread is your doing, not mine.

I have a...unique...perspective on the 2nd amendment. Lets just keep it to that for now.

I believe I explained in my post that the motivation for the thread felt 'fishy', given the many gun threads that had shut down only days if not hours before. Like this was some sort of 'feel good' gun thread for those pushing a 'pro-gun' agenda. That if you were not following those threads, many of them took some serious lumps in their arguments from a pile of facts that stated otherwise.

Many times I've seen citizens handle deadly situations without the use of a firearm. Does that mean we should ban all the firearms? Of course not! Should we limit them? That is a question for another thread. Should we give guns to only those we trust? How do we trust them?

The gun culture in our nation is both very serious, and yet, very interesting. Its also the one thing I believe (I got no evidence it will work), can cross the chasm that has this country divided so bitterly. There was one time, regardless of us being conservative, liberal, or moderate. Republican, Independent, or Democrat. That we got shit done. That we solved the problems of the day, rather than pushing them onto the next generation's shoulders. That we showed respect to one another, instead of the barbs we hit each other with on a daily basis (I'm just as guilty). We tried to do well for the poor, the defenseless, the ill, and the underdog. We dont seem to do that anymore....

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: tj444

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Hopefully the kid survives and uses this event to change his life for the better.

hmmm.. what are the odds of that happening??? and if he does survive he will very likely go to jail where he will get more schooling in how to get away with it next time..

Then are you saying they should have let him get away with it?
That they should never let him out?
Or that the citizen should have killed him.

oh ffs this is why I don't talk to you anymore... My comment was about the unlikelihood of this event changing his life for the better. I wasn't commenting on anything else. Jail will make him a better and more hardened criminal in which case his life of crime will continue, I don't see any life turnaround for this guy. I just found DS's comment about hopefully this will get him to turn his life around as rather strange.. the odds of that happening just aren't there..

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

No he wasnt.....

Did the founding father's intent on the 2nd allow for brigands to have guns? How about highwaymen? Pirates? Looters? Barbarians? Thugs? Since movements before a guilty verdict is reached in a criminal case, the accused are still considered 'honest and law abiding' citizens. Just like Timothy McVeigh a day before his guilty verdict. Wasn't he a gun owner....

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
It's the "Inmates-Running-The-Asylum" mentality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Life is precious (unless it's a fetus) and nothing is worth a person's life ...