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Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 10:22:04 AM   
tkitty0992


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/14/2015
Status: offline 		As part of a task my Master has set for me, i'm to find out more about punishment methods. So i thought, why not ask those who are punished? What better place to start?

So, what kind of punishments do you find work best to help adjust your behavior and attitude? i'm a fair masochist, so something with that in mind would be appreciated. Do you find that physical punishments are less effective than emotional or mental ones? Are there types of pain that you do not enjoy? How do your Masters/Mistresses punish you, and where does the line between discipline and punishment lie for each of Y/you? 9
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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 10:27:58 AM   
SinFix


Posts: 866
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		Hmmm, I don't do well with "punishments".. I am hard enough on myself without the worry that I would get punished if I messed up... So for me, positive reinforcement works best. I want to know what I do right so I can continue to emulate those things instead of forcing my focus on what I do wrong..

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 11:35:03 AM   
InHisHeart


Posts: 630
Joined: 3/22/2014
Status: offline 		I don't get punished for messing up accidentally, he's disciplined me on the rare occasion I'm being a bitch or I've tried to start an argument with him over something that there was nothing to discuss, never mind argue about.

He doesn't use corporal punishment, I'm a maso and he won't use anything we do during play as punishment. He'll make me cook dinner for X amount of days as punishment and he'll pick out what I'm to cook. Throwing hot dogs on the grill doesn't cut it, it's always a dinner that takes a lot of time to prepare. I'm a very good cook but I hate cooking, he's the cook in the house. Going to Home Depot or Lowes with him is something else he's done as punishment, he knows how much I don't like shopping at those stores with him. I like going to those store alone but not with him. He's always working on a project and thinking ahead to the next project so going to one of those stores with him, pack a damn lunch cause we're there a long time. Once he wouldn't allow me to masturbate for 10 days.

I'm disciplined only when I know whatever I'm doing or not doing is not acceptable to him and it's extremely rare when that happens.

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 11:46:12 AM   
ExiledTyrant


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From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tkitty0992

As part of a task my Master has set for me, i'm to find out more about punishment methods. So i thought, why not ask those who are punished? What better place to start?

So, what kind of punishments do you find work best to help adjust your behavior and attitude? i'm a fair masochist, so something with that in mind would be appreciated. Do you find that physical punishments are less effective than emotional or mental ones? Are there types of pain that you do not enjoy? How do your Masters/Mistresses punish you, and where does the line between discipline and punishment lie for each of Y/you? 9


Um... I think you may find it more productive to stick with "funishment" and just have a healthy dialogue of good vs bad, right vs wrong. His interest in facilitating your needs and wants should be as high on his priority list as you facilitating his needs and wants. Playing M/s and living M/s are very different things, if you are in it for the long haul, you'll have to take a reasonable adult approach.

Jus sayin

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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 11:49:15 AM   
ExiledTyrant


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From: Exiled
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SinFix

Hmmm, I don't do well with "punishments".. I am hard enough on myself without the worry that I would get punished if I messed up... So for me, positive reinforcement works best. I want to know what I do right so I can continue to emulate those things instead of forcing my focus on what I do wrong..


"Shhhh" works well.

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 12:22:06 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		I'm not currently 24/7- we are bedroom only- any punishment we do physically-is in a "funishment"/role playing sense.

Punishment doesn't work for me, even in the context of a 24/7 relationship, I'm an adult, communication works well for me.

In the past though, my least favorite and most effective form of punishment was ignoring me or "quiet time". I become a blubbering mess and beg to apologize, for obvious reasons- that may or may not work for someone

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 12:36:10 PM   
peppermint


Posts: 5169
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline 		At the beginning of our relationship he felt the need to punish me. He took my books away for a week. I was lost without them.

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 2:02:35 PM   
Bhruic


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Joined: 4/11/2012
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		Sounds a little like he is getting you to do his job for him... but to each his own.

What is it about what you are doing now that is lacking, and so motivating this research?

Realize that one person's punishment is another person's reward... with no information about you, suggestions would be total shots in the dark.

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 2:04:32 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		He asks questions to find out what my problem was and then tries to solve it for the future.
For example, I used to get bitchy mid day. When asked why, the answer every time was hunger. So he changed our schedule so I can eat breakfast an hour after taking morning meds on an empty stomach. He added in a lunch break.

No amount of punishment would have 'solved' low blood sugar. Nor resentments that had been festering. Nor unmet needs. So what's going on with you folks? Why can't you follow the rules? What's the problem?

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Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 2:06:24 PM   
tkitty0992


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/14/2015
Status: offline
quote:

SinFix:
Hmmm, I don't do well with "punishments".. I am hard enough on myself without the worry that I would get punished if I messed up... So for me, positive reinforcement works best. I want to know what I do right so I can continue to emulate those things instead of forcing my focus on what I do wrong..

i understand and agree with that on a certain level. i strive to do well for my Master, and when i falter or misbehave, the harshest punishment comes from myself upon me. i agree that positive reinforcement is essential, but i think if there's going to be a carrot, there should be a stick, elsewise we'd all get fat and lazy.

quote:

ExiledTyrant:
Um... I think you may find it more productive to stick with "funishment" and just have a healthy dialogue of good vs bad, right vs wrong. His interest in facilitating your needs and wants should be as high on his priority list as you facilitating his needs and wants. Playing M/s and living M/s are very different things, if you are in it for the long haul, you'll have to take a reasonable adult approach.

i think i understand where you're coming from, but if i'm given "funishment", won't that encourage me to purse the same misbehaviour in the interests of receiving the pleasure again, instead of whatever my Master might wish? If i enjoy the consequences for behaving askew to Master's wishes, isn't it human nature to want to get that pleasure again? "Funishment" doesn't really make sense to me, when i look at it from that angle.

We do have a lengthy discussion, and a proper lecture about why i'm being punished prior each time, and Master asks me to repeat the reasons throughout punishments. i get lots of positive reinforcement for when i do things well and correct, as well as when i instinctively perform well without his direction first. But i'm a firm believer, always have been, of a balance between positive and negative reinforcement. If i'm only praised when i do well, and have no lasting memories to turn me away from repeating that misbehaviour, all the talk in the world won't change the way my body feels and reacts. my Master does understand my needs very well, i think, and he understands that i need direction in both ways to perform and grow for Him. W/we are both adults, and it's important to remember that positive and negative reinforcement works much the same way in most working lives. If you do well, you're rewarded with a promotion, a raise, whatever. If you do well, you're reprimanded, demoted, docked pay, or at the most extreme, fired. Positive and negative reinforcement is prevalent in all our lives to some degree. So why should our personal, or for many in this case, sexual lives, be any different?

quote:

shiftyw
I'm not currently 24/7- we are bedroom only- any punishment we do physically-is in a "funishment"/role playing sense.

Punishment doesn't work for me, even in the context of a 24/7 relationship, I'm an adult, communication works well for me.

In the past though, my least favorite and most effective form of punishment was ignoring me or "quiet time". I become a blubbering mess and beg to apologize, for obvious reasons- that may or may not work for someone

But how does "Funishment" correlate to you actually learning any behavior? Is it just pain for the sake of pain at that point? i never tried to claim that all punishment is inherently physical pain, just that it exists. It doesn't even have to be painful in any way, per say. i'm not saying communication doesn't work for me either, just that i think it should be supplementary to something my unconscious mind can remember well. The way you describe quiet time makes me think that would be an effective punishment for myself, as well. If i'm not allowed to even attempt to please my Master, i can see myself correcting very quickly.

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 2:07:35 PM   
tkitty0992


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/14/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint

At the beginning of our relationship he felt the need to punish me. He took my books away for a week. I was lost without them.

If i wasn't allowed to read, i'd fall into deep despair. i can't imagine what you might have done to incur such. :(

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 2:13:44 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline 		This is a fast reply.

I do not have a punishment dynamic in my relationship. My slut is an adult and therefore capable of communication. Have I used things to get my point across? Certainly. But I have never punished her. It would destroy her if she let me down to the point where I would even consider punishment... that said, it would never get to that point in the first place because we can talk freely with each other.

_____________________________

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I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 2:20:30 PM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tkitty0992

Positive and negative reinforcement is prevalent in all our lives to some degree. So why should our personal, or for many in this case, sexual lives, be any different?



For me, having a relationship with a punishment dynamic wouldn't work. The one place where I do have ultimate control in my life is in my choice of interpersonal relationships, and I don't personally believe that because I have to endure something outside the relationship, it should necessarily come into my private life.

Now, with that being said, there are many people for whom punishments *do* work and are desired. I have heard a lot of reasons for this, including that it enables the "punishee" to stop beating themselves up over things. It's a finite thing, and once it's over, it's over-- moving on.

The key, I suppose, is knowing *what* will be effective. As you said, taking away books would be torture for you. Ok...there's a start. For me, taking away my phone would be something that might make me think twice about what I did. If you're a masochist, perhaps there are some types of pain that you don't like, and those could be used?

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 2:30:52 PM   
tkitty0992


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/14/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

Sounds a little like he is getting you to do his job for him... but to each his own.

What is it about what you are doing now that is lacking, and so motivating this research?

Realize that one person's punishment is another person's reward... with no information about you, suggestions would be total shots in the dark.

Oh, no, that's not the idea here at all. Master has his own ideas for punishment, and he's adapted quickly to my masochistic ways. He only desires that i take the initiative to learn more about others in similar situations, to help acclimate me to the lifestyle. i'm very new to all of this, and sometimes it's hard to wrap my head around these ideas, even if they align well with my natural instincts and tendencies.

So i guess i'll elaborate a bit. i'm quite young, as far as these things go, and have been in training around a month, now. my Master says i'm doing well, very eager to learn and perform for him. But one of my main faults is my tendency to cum without permission. i've been known to lie during previous punishment (i've come to realize these, for me, were "funishments") because i believed i was not supposed to enjoy them, and at the time did not truly understand the consequences of lying.

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 2:34:39 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		Re: funishment...

I'm a maso.
Here is how it usually plays out. I start feeling a little randy. He is usually doing something else, video games, cooking, whatever. I go pinch him, or nibble on him or otherwise poke or prod the bear. He knows I am being playful.

Then he usually finds like...a kitchen tool (i.e. Wooden spoon) or cable to swat me across the ass with and the chase is on. We run all around the house until he catches me (he is much bigger, reality is I want to get caught) and then he can flog me, fuck me, whatever, as "punishment" for irritating him.

In a previous relationship he was a daddy Dom, I'd be really mouthy or sassy and then I'd get all kinds of wonderful, painful things done to me as "punishment". Or he would set up silly rules that were meant to be broken.

The goal is not learning. Because Ive always responded better to talking about a problem rather than being punished for it.

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 3:28:10 PM   
epiphiny43


Posts: 688
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline 		That punishment works is usually due to complicated histories. And our endless capacity to eroticize things outside actual Sex. The Science of Behavior is how brains and nervous systems work, at all levels. Anyone actually interested in escaping current Western cultural myths on the subject is welcome to Google 'Applied Behavior Analysis', Susan Friedman is an excellent writer on the subject.
NOTHING is different among intact nervous systems. Capabilities of intellectual analysis and language have zero effect. Adults, children, pets and wildlife all learn the same. Kids before about 8 don't respond to punishment/failure or no one would ever learn to walk or talk!
Brains repeat successful actions, the organism defines reward, not the observer. Examples: Those humans who associate putative punishment with attention complicate the picture wildly. Those who eroticize certain punishments are even harder to understand without full disclosure and candid conversation.
Most real punishment just damages interpersonal bonds. Pick your goals?
People who have internalized the rules usually have only to be reminded of them? Such internalization happens best from strong bonds and communication and role modeling.
Examples of the 'real world' using punishment are specious. The most successful organizations and groups use rewards almost exclusively. Money, promotion, interesting projects customized to the talent, recognition, Morale, esprit de corps, mutual goal focus and constant communication are tools and criteria the top businesses and such use to create successful cooperative communities of high achieving humans.

That people can find entertainment and arousal playing punishment games speaks to our incredible talent for complication and eroticizing almost Anything. Whatever floats y/our boat?

Not in reply to a post but to the thread in general, it won't edit off

< Message edited by epiphiny43 -- 2/19/2015 3:34:30 PM >

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 3:50:51 PM   
InHisHeart


Posts: 630
Joined: 3/22/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Nor resentments that had been festering. Nor unmet needs. So what's going on with you folks? Why can't you follow the rules? What's the problem?


I'm one who is in a discipline dynamic so I'll answer. Discipline is part of our dynamics, it's our way, it's what we want in our relationship. I say "we" because if I didn't want to be in a relationship where there is discipline, I wouldn't be in one. I've never had resentments fester or have my needs unmet. If there's something I need, want, desire, he knows what they are and I get them met. If I'm upset, angry, sad, happy, whatever I'm feeling, he knows all about it.

As for your questions:

"So what's going on with you folks?" -- Nothing is going on with us, it's all good, very good.

"Why can't you follow the rules?" -- I do follow rules, 99% of the time, shit happens, I'm human, not a robot. If discipline was not acceptable to me then I wouldn't be in a relationship where discipline is practiced.

"What's the problem?" -- There are no problems at all.

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I don't have a bucket list but my fucket list is a mile long.

I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.


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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 3:53:14 PM   
tkitty0992


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/14/2015
Status: offline 		So, i also feel like the topic has gone way off kilter. i asked for methods of punishment that Everyone finds effective. Not to tell me that punishment isn't effective, or Funishment should be used instead. i appreciate Everyone's input on this, but i'm looking to see what kinds of punishment are used, not the lack thereof.

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 4:46:33 PM   
epiphiny43


Posts: 688
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline 		EVERY sort of punishment possible is used! As to what is Effective, answers vary with the instance, people, their dynamic and a lot more. Statistical means are irrelevant, what isn't is the common theme above that communication is more important and effective.
Or, to fight possible fapping threads, kneeling on rice grains seems to float almost no boats?

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RE: Methods of Punishment? - 2/19/2015 5:09:17 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tkitty0992

So, i also feel like the topic has gone way off kilter. i asked for methods of punishment that Everyone finds effective. Not to tell me that punishment isn't effective, or Funishment should be used instead. i appreciate Everyone's input on this, but i'm looking to see what kinds of punishment are used, not the lack thereof.


So, the answers you get don't suit you? Sorry about that, when you ask a question on forums you will get all kinds of answers. What you are being told is that not everyone's dynamic includes punishment. You asked for "effective" punishment, and frankly, for some folks, punishment is not effective... and therefore their answers are, in fact, relevant to your question.

The very best answer that you can be given would be to ask you what kind of punishment YOU would find effective. What someone else would find effective might cause you to break out in fits of laughter or make you recoil in horror. No one can answer this except you.

< Message edited by Gauge -- 2/19/2015 5:10:33 PM >

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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