RE: Hillary's E-Mails (Full Version)

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DaddySatyr -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/22/2015 10:54:27 AM)

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Michael




DesideriScuri -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/22/2015 1:41:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
and again:
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Michael


Two things jumped out at me:
    1) I'm surprised 14% of Democrats are less likely to vote for her. I expect it would be lower.

    2) 25% are more likely to vote for her because of this. WTF?!? How can people be more likely to vote for her after this, even if it
      wasn't illegal?!?





slvemike4u -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/22/2015 1:55:10 PM)

The feeling that the right has decided to attack her with this level of vehemence this early,added to the fiasco of another Benghazi sub committee.
Just guesses, I can't actually speak to what was on the mind of the 25% ...all I can do is surmise [:)]




bounty44 -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/22/2015 2:45:26 PM)

given the recent revelations concerning her private server, and that large gaps appear in her emails concerning Benghazi, can you please explain how further investigation/testimony constitutes a "fiasco?"




slvemike4u -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/22/2015 2:50:24 PM)

Sure.....I don't like partisan inspired witch hunts
The right has spent enough treasure trying to hang the deaths of four Americans on Hillary and/or this administration.
I don't believe there is any smoking gun to be found.
I'm amused at the right for hammering ad infanatum on and on about four dead Americans while preferring to forget that Bush and Cheney killed so many more with their lies about Iraq.


Are those reason enough or should I continue ?




bounty44 -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/22/2015 4:08:59 PM)

as you didnt really address the components of the question, id say no those aren't "reasons enough."

the first time around the committee did not know about the private server---so while you say you "don't believe there's any smoking gun", there is absolutely no way you can know that without access to all the records.

there is also in your answer, no explanation of the gaps in her emails concerning Libya/Benghazi, at a time when, dare I say it, most reasonable people would suspect she should be writing about it.

if you believe they were justified in calling her to testify the first time, then since the first time was insufficient, they are justified in calling her this time.

you'll notice from the graphics above that a fair portion of democrats have some problems with her private email server too and want an independent review of it and a fair number of democrats have criticized her secrecy here. so "partisan inspired witch hunt" doesn't work.

lastly---im not sure why in talking with the left, so many things go back to bush and cheney and the Iraq war. given that democrats sided with them and pretty much had access to all the same information they did, should settle that argument.

as to "lying"---I keep having to say this here: in order for something to be a lie, you have to know what the accused knows, and then show that he went ahead a perpetrated a falsehood instead of it. you may be of the opinion bush and cheney lied, but to my knowledge, that's never been actually shown. I don't know that it ever could be shown for that matter.

that said---lets assume for a moment they did lie, and got away with it---so that means we should give up looking into if Hillary's telling the truth or not?





crazyml -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/22/2015 6:31:31 PM)

which revelations? The ones that point out that her server has the same weakness as he State Department's server?




KenDckey -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/22/2015 7:52:19 PM)

All servers connected to the net may be subject to breaking into. That is not beyond the possibility realm. I don't know if it has or hasn't. As for Hillary's server, I would love an independent review with tech savy types doing the review to make sure everything is found, and legal beagles deciding if it is a public or private record.




JVoV -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/23/2015 1:49:31 AM)

I would imagine much of the Benghazi situation was discussed over the phone, or in meetings and briefings, rather than via email.




bounty44 -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/23/2015 3:49:51 AM)

you can imagine that, and I would call that a fantasy or wishful thinking. the presence of one (phone, meetings, briefings) doesn't replace or fully explain the absence of the other (emails). the only way to know is to have access to everything...which by law she was supposed to have provided.

and the "revelations" are about the private server period, not aspects of its internal security.




mnottertail -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/23/2015 7:48:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

given the recent revelations concerning her private server, and that large gaps appear in her emails concerning Benghazi, can you please explain how further investigation/testimony constitutes a "fiasco?"



Sure. HOw is it that all government emails are archived and there is some gap? Wouldn't Hillary have sent and emails to and from people in the Government regarding this, or is the situation that you think she sent emails to and from hillary1 to hillary11 at clintonemail?






JVoV -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/23/2015 2:36:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

you can imagine that, and I would call that a fantasy or wishful thinking. the presence of one (phone, meetings, briefings) doesn't replace or fully explain the absence of the other (emails). the only way to know is to have access to everything...which by law she was supposed to have provided.

and the "revelations" are about the private server period, not aspects of its internal security.


Wouldn't the people she would have been in contact with regarding the matter be held to the same law? It shouldn't be difficult to figure out who that would have been, and for any investigation to subpoena their emails to compare.




Aylee -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/23/2015 3:04:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I would imagine much of the Benghazi situation was discussed over the phone, or in meetings and briefings, rather than via email.



Except for that iconic photo of her and her blackberry at the time.


Whoops.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/23/2015 3:11:21 PM)

FR,

Let's say some hackers hack into her server and find all sorts of emails she hasn't released proving she carried on government business through private email without releasing them. Obviously, that proof wouldn't be admissible in court since it was gained through illegal means. Let's also say that without that information and proof, she couldn't be convicted of any wrongdoing. If the GOP uses that information in advertisements opposing Hillary, could she sue for defamation?

Let's say some hackers hack into her server and find zero emails of Hillary conducting government business through private email that haven't been released (that is, she's released all emails she's legally bound to release, fully complying with the law). Will the GOP let this go, or will there be continuing claims of erasing the incriminating email off the server?




bounty44 -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/24/2015 4:19:04 AM)

there's really no way of knowing though who/how many people she was in communication with. it'd be an out of inconclusive boondoggle.

on top of that though, Benghazi's just a slice of the larger pie.

its pretty easy for me to see the whole arrangement was set up in order to avoid the type of scrutiny she is presently getting. if there is an alternative reading of the situation, ive yet to see it.

to make things a bit more problematic for her and to your point---she recently said that the vast majority of her emails were set to government workers, so indeed her work was captured on government servers as a result of that. however, recent document study has shown a fair portion of her emails were sent to her staff's private email accounts also---so there's no way of knowing about them either...





KenDckey -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/24/2015 5:58:49 AM)

I really believe that Hillary is in for a rough road to the primaries and potentially beyond. The issue has drawn bipartisian support in appointing an independent to scrutinize her servier and all her e-mails.




Aylee -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/24/2015 6:21:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

FR,

Let's say some hackers hack into her server and find all sorts of emails she hasn't released proving she carried on government business through private email without releasing them. Obviously, that proof wouldn't be admissible in court since it was gained through illegal means.


Except it was not the police that did not gain the information. It was a third party, so it should be admissible in court. Also. . . the emails would already be under subpena since Congress has already subpenaed her emails.

quote:


Let's also say that without that information and proof, she couldn't be convicted of any wrongdoing. If the GOP uses that information in advertisements opposing Hillary, could she sue for defamation?


Nope. It would be an opinion and not stated as a fact, among other things. You also could not show provable harm. In the US, it is permissible to prosecute a suspected criminal thru the newspapers. There is also protection from prosecution under 'Fair comment on a matter of public interest'.

In the US, it is permissible to libel a public figure, but not a private citizen. Libeling the public figure is "free speech."

quote:

Let's say some hackers hack into her server and find zero emails of Hillary conducting government business through private email that haven't been released (that is, she's released all emails she's legally bound to release, fully complying with the law). Will the GOP let this go, or will there be continuing claims of erasing the incriminating email off the server?


Nope. She stated that she deleted emails. She destroyed the evidence that she turned over all emails.





See, here's the thing. Defamation law requires that the words be believed by someone in order for there to be an injury the law can compensate.

If I say " Slvemike4u is a rapscallion and a scalawag" to you, but your reply is "No ma'am, Slvemike4u is a fine, upstanding individual," I have technically not defamed him, because you didn't believe it, so Mike was not harmed.

Defamation teaches us this important fact: words are harmless. The harm is ALWAYS a result of their effect on the listener.

It's harmless-- :) -- in ordinary speech to colloquially refer to saying nasty things about someone as defaming them. Everybody knows what you mean. But in serious discussions about the law and free speech and the effects of words, it is crucial to remember that the words themselves don't cause harm. It's a fine point, but it matters enormously.




Lucylastic -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/24/2015 6:57:00 AM)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/23/us/politics/in-clinton-emails-on-benghazi-a-rare-glimpse-at-her-concerns.html?emc=edit_na_20150323&nlid=68672635&_r=0



The roughly 300 emails from Mrs. Clinton’s private account that were turned over last month to a House committee investigating the attack showed the secretary and her aides closely monitoring the fallout from the tragedy, which threatened to damage her image and reflect poorly on the State Department.

Continue reading the main story
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They provided no evidence that Mrs. Clinton, as the most incendiary Republican attacks have suggested, issued a “stand down” order to halt American forces responding to the violence in Benghazi, or took part in a broad cover-up of the administration’s response, according to senior American officials.

But they did show that Mrs. Clinton’s top aides at times corresponded with her about State Department matters from their personal email accounts, raising questions about her recent assertions that she made it her practice to email aides at their government addresses so the messages would be preserved, in compliance with federal record-keeping regulations.

The emails have not been made public, and The New York Times was not permitted to review them. But four senior government officials offered descriptions of some of the key messages, on the condition of anonymity because they did not want to jeopardize their access to secret information.

A spokesman for Mrs. Clinton said she and her aides had used their email accounts appropriately, while a spokesman for the Republican-controlled House committee declined to comment.

The correspondence offered a glimpse inside the secretary of state’s inbox — and her elusive email personality — including during those dark days just after the attack. Mrs. Clinton exclusively used a private email account that was housed on a server at her home in Chappaqua, N.Y., while she was secretary of state, which kept many of the messages secret.

Strikingly, given that she has set off an uproar over her emails, Mrs. Clinton is not a verbose correspondent. At times, she sends her highly regarded foreign policy adviser, Jake Sullivan, an email containing a news article, with a simple instruction: Please print. (Mrs. Clinton, though she has taken to Twitter and embraced other forms of modern technology, appears to like to read articles on paper.)

There were also the more mundane messages that crowd many government workers’ inboxes: scheduling, logistics, even a news alert about a breaking story from Politico, forwarded to the secretary by a senior aide.

The emails showed Mrs. Clinton and her inner circle reacting as the administration’s view of what happened in Benghazi changed, and the messages shed some light on a pivotal moment in the attack’s aftermath involving Susan E. Rice, then the ambassador to the United Nations.

Continue reading the main story
On Sept. 16, five days after the attack, Ms. Rice appeared on several Sunday news programs, including ABC’s “This Week,” to offer the administration’s view on the attack. Some conservatives suggested that Ms. Rice took on the role of public spokeswoman in those first few days after the attacks so that Mrs. Clinton could duck the controversy. (Ms. Rice has said that Mrs. Clinton declined to appear because she was tired after a grueling week.)

The emails do not settle that question, the senior officials said. But they do suggest that Mrs. Clinton and her aides were ultimately relieved that she had not gone as far as Ms. Rice had in her description of the attacks.

The day that Ms. Rice appeared on the shows, Mr. Sullivan, who served as Mrs. Clinton’s deputy chief of staff and is one of her most trusted advisers, emailed Mrs. Clinton a transcript of Ms. Rice’s remarks on ABC’s “This Week.” Mr. Sullivan’s message was brief, but he appeared pleased by how it had gone. Ms. Rice, on the show, described it as a spontaneous eruption of violence, triggered by an offensive anti-Muslim video.

“She did make clear our view that this started spontaneously then evolved,” Mr. Sullivan wrote to Mrs. Clinton.

But in the days that followed, the administration’s view of what occurred grew more complicated. Amid intense criticism from Republicans, who accused the White House of playing down the attack in an election year, administration officials began to call it “a terrorist attack.” Ms. Rice’s initial description of the attack as spontaneous came under intense scrutiny.

Two weeks after that first email assessing Ms. Rice’s appearance, Mr. Sullivan sent Mrs. Clinton a very different email. This time, he appeared to reassure the secretary of state that she had avoided the problems Ms. Rice was confronting. He told Mrs. Clinton that he had reviewed her public remarks since the attack and that she had avoided the language that had landed Ms. Rice in trouble.

“You never said ‘spontaneous’ or characterized their motivations,” Mr. Sullivan wrote.

The 300 emails are a small fraction of those Mrs. Clinton has handed over to the State Department.

Last summer, State Department lawyers responding to document requests from the House committee investigating Benghazi found correspondence showing Mrs. Clinton used a private email account. The lawyers determined that they needed all of Mrs. Clinton’s emails to respond to the committee requests.

In December, Mrs. Clinton turned over 30,000 of her emails to the State Department, and the department sent the House committee the 300 related to Benghazi or Libya.

The scrutiny of how she used email has created the first test of her all-but-announced presidential campaign. At the time she was secretary of state, federal regulations said agencies that allow employees to use private email addresses, “must ensure that federal records sent or received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate agency record-keeping system.”

Continue reading the main storyContinue reading the main storyContinue reading the main story
Nick Merrill, the spokesman for Mrs. Clinton, defended the aides’ use of personal email, saying that it was “their practice to primarily use their work email when conducting state business, with only the tiniest fraction of the more than one million emails they sent or received involving their personal accounts.”

Some may not be satisfied with that explanation or the records Mrs. Clinton has provided. Trey Gowdy, the South Carolina Republican who chairs the House Select Committee on Benghazi, has said he suspected Mrs. Clinton has not turned over all the Benghazi-related emails, and has asked Mrs. Clinton to turn over her server to a neutral party to examine all of her emails, including ones she deleted, to determine if others should be provided to his panel.

Mr. Gowdy’s committee is also likely to press Mrs. Clinton on why her advisers occasionally used personal email accounts to communicate with her. At least four of Mrs. Clinton’s closest advisers at the State Department did so, including her chief of staff, Cheryl Mills; senior adviser, Philippe Reines; personal aide, Huma Abedin; and Mr. Sullivan.

Elijah E. Cummings, the Maryland Democrat and ranking member on the committee, said in a statement that “instead of having emails leaked piecemeal — and mischaracterized,” the committee’s chairman, Mr. Gowdy, “should release all of them — as Secretary Clinton has asked — so the American people can read them for themselves.”




KenDckey -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/24/2015 7:25:12 AM)

Makes one wonder just how highly things will be redacted when and if they are eventually released.




Lucylastic -> RE: Hillary's E-Mails (3/24/2015 7:40:10 AM)


National security has no place anymore? just to please an ignorant public who wouldnt know left from right if they didnt use their thumbs.

When have you ever been able to read communications between "government offices" willy nilly???? Especially before Benghazi *PBTDI*???????




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