RE: US Military in Border Security

RE: US Military in Border Security (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 10:01:06 AM)
No, that is not the inherent reason. Never was, never will be.

cloudboy -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 10:02:31 AM)
Enforcement has failed -- why do you want to double down and spend even more money on it?

BamaD -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 10:38:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Enforcement has failed -- why do you want to double down and spend even more money on it? Why do you want open borders? The Indians tried that and see were it got them. We might want to try enforcing the border before we say it has failed.

mnottertail -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 10:42:22 AM)
And we do that by going into corporations and arresting everyone and fining and jailing them, where illegal aliens are found to work. We have had the US Border Patrol since 1924. How much time you thinking of giving it, how much money? What efficiency rate we shooting for?

tweakabelle -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 10:56:23 AM)
Not really any of my business but how are you guys going to deal with this issue without offering some way that illegals can regularise their situations? Does anyone seriously suggest that it is possible to deport 11 million or so? To your credit at least you guys are having this debate unlike here where the topic of asylum seekers touches every red neck nerve in the Australian psyche.

BamaD -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 11:20:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Not really any of my business but how are you guys going to deal with this issue without offering some way that illegals can regularise their situations? Does anyone seriously suggest that it is possible to deport 11 million or so? To your credit at least you guys are having this debate unlike here where the topic of asylum seekers touches every red neck nerve in the Australian psyche. I have offered a suggestion repeatedly. Allow citizenship to families were the male members of the appropriate age (17 to 35) sign up as infantry for 8 years. They and the families are granted provisional citizenship till they complete the term. They would be paid at a lower rate than the citizens who sign up (for example they get paid as if they were two pay grades lower than their actual grade). This would accomplish three things. A It would provide a path to citizenship B It would make them earn their citizenship rather than just bumping them ahead of people who have obeyed the law. C It would reduce the strain on the defense budget.

mnottertail -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 11:26:02 AM)
What is two pay grades below a private 'e nothing'? And that won't work, we have actual laws in this country.

KenDckey -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 11:30:03 AM)
To some extent this is being done. Always has. I had a boss who got his citizenship before ever entering the US. He joined the Army, got his basic overseas, served 4 years, passed the test, and went before a fed judge overseas. He retired from the Army in the late 70's.

BamaD -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 11:31:02 AM)
FR Supplement Everyone could start at an e1. Or since this would take a new law they could create two lower pay grades for the "special" enlistees.

mnottertail -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 11:31:58 AM)
Yeah, a standing mexican army, thats gonna be constitutional. Won't make the 14th. How about the medical doctors, they stay butterbars for 8 years?

BamaD -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 11:36:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey To some extent this is being done. Always has. I had a boss who got his citizenship before ever entering the US. He joined the Army, got his basic overseas, served 4 years, passed the test, and went before a fed judge overseas. He retired from the Army in the late 70's. Yes I know about that program, this would be an expansion of it. One difference would be that they would have to choose between this and deportation. Two it would be greatly expanded. The officers would have to be legitimate citizens, and would the administrative and medical people.

mnottertail -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 11:39:38 AM)
Great program, here you and your family can be an American citizen if we can shovel shit at you and never pay you for eight years, we call that program, 8 years a slave. I am sure it will deliver us some quality, productive, loyal American citizens. (but those guys wouldn't vote republican, lol)

BamaD -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 12:34:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey To some extent this is being done. Always has. I had a boss who got his citizenship before ever entering the US. He joined the Army, got his basic overseas, served 4 years, passed the test, and went before a fed judge overseas. He retired from the Army in the late 70's. And he did everything legally.

KenDckey -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 12:52:22 PM)
LOL The Army times and this site reports that Elephants make good bomb detection devices. http://800whistleblower.com/bomb-sniffing-elephants-could-help-military-id-explosives-2/# Wonder if they might work well in people crossing the border? LOL

mnottertail -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 12:53:15 PM)
You wouldnt want to get close to them, that is a lot of steak hitting you in the head when they go off.

DesideriScuri -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 2:02:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail No, the key phrase in your untutored parsing of wiki rather than the law is: 1878. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1385 ^^^that is the posse comitatus law as it exists in 2015. The more inclusive restrictions are at: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/32/182.6#a_1_iii One just might finagle the point on posse comitatus if the border abutted federal lands. Isn't "posse comitatus" the use of military personnel by a State to enforce their laws? In the case of Border Patrols, that's a Federal agency enforcing Federal laws. I have MN on block, so I'm "not allowed" to respond directly to his posts.

DesideriScuri -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 2:05:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Not really any of my business but how are you guys going to deal with this issue without offering some way that illegals can regularise their situations? Does anyone seriously suggest that it is possible to deport 11 million or so? To your credit at least you guys are having this debate unlike here where the topic of asylum seekers touches every red neck nerve in the Australian psyche. I have offered a suggestion repeatedly. Allow citizenship to families were the male members of the appropriate age (17 to 35) sign up as infantry for 8 years. They and the families are granted provisional citizenship till they complete the term. They would be paid at a lower rate than the citizens who sign up (for example they get paid as if they were two pay grades lower than their actual grade). This would accomplish three things. A It would provide a path to citizenship B It would make them earn their citizenship rather than just bumping them ahead of people who have obeyed the law. C It would reduce the strain on the defense budget. I don't agree with the provision that they be paid a lower rate, but I do think they should get expedited immigration proceedings if they serve honorably.

mnottertail -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 2:14:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail No, the key phrase in your untutored parsing of wiki rather than the law is: 1878. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1385 ^^^that is the posse comitatus law as it exists in 2015. The more inclusive restrictions are at: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/32/182.6#a_1_iii One just might finagle the point on posse comitatus if the border abutted federal lands. Isn't "posse comitatus" the use of military personnel by a State to enforce their laws? In the case of Border Patrols, that's a Federal agency enforcing Federal laws. I have MN on block, so I'm "not allowed" to respond directly to his posts. Nope. Good you have me on block, then you don't have to learn the realities.

BamaD -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 5:37:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Not really any of my business but how are you guys going to deal with this issue without offering some way that illegals can regularise their situations? Does anyone seriously suggest that it is possible to deport 11 million or so? To your credit at least you guys are having this debate unlike here where the topic of asylum seekers touches every red neck nerve in the Australian psyche. I have offered a suggestion repeatedly. Allow citizenship to families were the male members of the appropriate age (17 to 35) sign up as infantry for 8 years. They and the families are granted provisional citizenship till they complete the term. They would be paid at a lower rate than the citizens who sign up (for example they get paid as if they were two pay grades lower than their actual grade). This would accomplish three things. A It would provide a path to citizenship B It would make them earn their citizenship rather than just bumping them ahead of people who have obeyed the law. C It would reduce the strain on the defense budget. I don't agree with the provision that they be paid a lower rate, but I do think they should get expedited immigration proceedings if they serve honorably. I would be ok with that, I would say though that they had to join combat arms.

DesideriScuri -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 5:39:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Not really any of my business but how are you guys going to deal with this issue without offering some way that illegals can regularise their situations? Does anyone seriously suggest that it is possible to deport 11 million or so? To your credit at least you guys are having this debate unlike here where the topic of asylum seekers touches every red neck nerve in the Australian psyche. I have offered a suggestion repeatedly. Allow citizenship to families were the male members of the appropriate age (17 to 35) sign up as infantry for 8 years. They and the families are granted provisional citizenship till they complete the term. They would be paid at a lower rate than the citizens who sign up (for example they get paid as if they were two pay grades lower than their actual grade). This would accomplish three things. A It would provide a path to citizenship B It would make them earn their citizenship rather than just bumping them ahead of people who have obeyed the law. C It would reduce the strain on the defense budget. I don't agree with the provision that they be paid a lower rate, but I do think they should get expedited immigration proceedings if they serve honorably. I would be ok with that, I would say though that they had to join combat arms. I'd be okay with that, even if they never see actual combat time (like peacetime service).

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