RE: US Military in Border Security

RE: US Military in Border Security (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 5:49:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Not really any of my business but how are you guys going to deal with this issue without offering some way that illegals can regularise their situations? Does anyone seriously suggest that it is possible to deport 11 million or so? To your credit at least you guys are having this debate unlike here where the topic of asylum seekers touches every red neck nerve in the Australian psyche. I have offered a suggestion repeatedly. Allow citizenship to families were the male members of the appropriate age (17 to 35) sign up as infantry for 8 years. They and the families are granted provisional citizenship till they complete the term. They would be paid at a lower rate than the citizens who sign up (for example they get paid as if they were two pay grades lower than their actual grade). This would accomplish three things. A It would provide a path to citizenship B It would make them earn their citizenship rather than just bumping them ahead of people who have obeyed the law. C It would reduce the strain on the defense budget. I don't agree with the provision that they be paid a lower rate, but I do think they should get expedited immigration proceedings if they serve honorably. I would be ok with that, I would say though that they had to join combat arms. I'd be okay with that, even if they never see actual combat time (like peacetime service). Of course, it wouldn't be their fault if there wasn't a war, and I am not suggesting we use them like the Soviet penal battalions. In fact I wouldn't even say they should have their own units.

cloudboy -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 5:54:09 PM)
Try to live in REALITY. (1) The border is not open. Crossing it is a dangerous proposition. (2) You can't completely seal the border. (3) People looking for hope and opportunity will continue to come to the USA; the moment that ceases is a moment you know something is gravely wrong with the country.

BamaD -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 6:12:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Try to live in REALITY. (1) The border is not open. Crossing it is a dangerous proposition. (2) You can't completely seal the border. (3) People looking for hope and opportunity will continue to come to the USA; the moment that ceases is a moment you know something is gravely wrong with the country. They set up comfort stations for illegals how open can you get.

Zonie63 -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 7:07:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Not really any of my business but how are you guys going to deal with this issue without offering some way that illegals can regularise their situations? Does anyone seriously suggest that it is possible to deport 11 million or so? That's really the main issue. I suppose it's technically possible to deport that many people, but it would be exceedingly expensive and create an AWFUL lot of tension with our neighbor to the south. It would also create tensions on this side of the border among a very large (legal) Latino population for whom this issue hits too close to home. One night I was heading home, and saw quite a few Border Patrol vehicles in the city with their sirens and lights on, heading somewhere in a hurry. It turned out that there was damn near a riot when the local police pulled someone over and called the Border Patrol to check on his immigration status. Passers by could see what was going on and started surrounding the scene and asking the cops what were they doing and why. It ended more or less peacefully, but it could have gone either way. But they were clearly upset about the possible deportation of just one person. To go after 11 million - that's going to anger a lot of people and could cause the border and the entire Southwestern USA to explode in chaos. Then we really would need the military to restore order. quote: To your credit at least you guys are having this debate unlike here where the topic of asylum seekers touches every red neck nerve in the Australian psyche. Just curious, how has Australia handled immigration historically? When I was a kid, I remember hearing that they only allowed white immigrants to Australia, but I understand that policy was rescinded?

BamaD -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 7:17:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Not really any of my business but how are you guys going to deal with this issue without offering some way that illegals can regularise their situations? Does anyone seriously suggest that it is possible to deport 11 million or so? That's really the main issue. I suppose it's technically possible to deport that many people, but it would be exceedingly expensive and create an AWFUL lot of tension with our neighbor to the south. It would also create tensions on this side of the border among a very large (legal) Latino population for whom this issue hits too close to home. One night I was heading home, and saw quite a few Border Patrol vehicles in the city with their sirens and lights on, heading somewhere in a hurry. It turned out that there was damn near a riot when the local police pulled someone over and called the Border Patrol to check on his immigration status. Passers by could see what was going on and started surrounding the scene and asking the cops what were they doing and why. It ended more or less peacefully, but it could have gone either way. But they were clearly upset about the possible deportation of just one person. To go after 11 million - that's going to anger a lot of people and could cause the border and the entire Southwestern USA to explode in chaos. Then we really would need the military to restore order. quote: To your credit at least you guys are having this debate unlike here where the topic of asylum seekers touches every red neck nerve in the Australian psyche. Just curious, how has Australia handled immigration historically? When I was a kid, I remember hearing that they only allowed white immigrants to Australia, but I understand that policy was rescinded? But they were clearly upset about the possible deportation of just one person. To go after 11 million - that's going to anger a lot of people and could cause the border and the entire Southwestern USA to explode in chaos. Then we really would need the military to restore order. If we have to let them dictate what we do isn't this a call for surrender?

Zonie63 -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 7:23:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Try to live in REALITY. (1) The border is not open. Crossing it is a dangerous proposition. (2) You can't completely seal the border. (3) People looking for hope and opportunity will continue to come to the USA; the moment that ceases is a moment you know something is gravely wrong with the country. They set up comfort stations for illegals how open can you get. Do you mean the water barrels that some church groups put out in various sections around the desert? That was primarily a humanitarian act because of all the deaths from heat and a lack of water. They were coming anyway, regardless of whether the "comfort stations" were there or not, but there were those who thought that it could save lives. They weren't at the border either, but some distance further in.

Zonie63 -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 7:27:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD If we have to let them dictate what we do isn't this a call for surrender? Not necessarily, but I think it should be mentioned just so people know exactly what the ramifications could be. How far do we want to go? Or, as Sean Connery asked Kevin Costner in The Untouchables, "What are you prepared to do?"

BamaD -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 7:30:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD If we have to let them dictate what we do isn't this a call for surrender? Not necessarily, but I think it should be mentioned just so people know exactly what the ramifications could be. How far do we want to go? Or, as Sean Connery asked Kevin Costner in The Untouchables, "What are you prepared to do?" Whatever is necessary.

KenDckey -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 7:42:15 PM)
Land Mines, Claymores, Killer Wire, Electrified Fencing, Presighted Artillary with sensor triggers. Proabably put a couple of coyotes out of action too.

BamaD -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 7:45:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey Land Mines, Claymores, Killer Wire, Electrified Fencing, Presighted Artillary with sensor triggers. Proabably put a couple of coyotes out of action too. lol

Zonie63 -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 7:55:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey Land Mines, Claymores, Killer Wire, Electrified Fencing, Presighted Artillary with sensor triggers. Proabably put a couple of coyotes out of action too. That coyote is really a crazy clown, and all that stuff is made by the ACME Corporation, so it's guaranteed not to work.

KenDckey -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 7:59:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey Land Mines, Claymores, Killer Wire, Electrified Fencing, Presighted Artillary with sensor triggers. Proabably put a couple of coyotes out of action too. That coyote is really a crazy clown, and all that stuff is made by the ACME Corporation, so it's guaranteed not to work. ROFLMAO yup

Marini -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/12/2015 8:38:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey Land Mines, Claymores, Killer Wire, Electrified Fencing, Presighted Artillary with sensor triggers. Proabably put a couple of coyotes out of action too. That coyote is really a crazy clown, and all that stuff is made by the ACME Corporation, so it's guaranteed not to work. [sm=goodpost.gif] Zonie wins with a knock out punch! The thing I like about you Zonie, is you can chat about this subject without calling those that disagree/or have divergent opinions, "racist", "bigots", etc. You rock!

MercTech -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/13/2015 2:03:43 AM)
For reference; current requirements for immigration to the U.S. can be found at: http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-processes-and-procedures/green-card-eligibility I can see the fear that undocumented aliens may contain a desperate criminal element. I can see the point of empathy for impoverished people to enter the U.S. where they will be safer and have a chance at a decent living. A blanket absolution of the immigration requirements for a large undocumented alien population doesn't play well as a permanent solution. How and how much reform of immigration requirements is a hard subject to find a consensus on. But the real politic is that the corruption in the process of sneaking into the country and the taking advantage of undocumented aliens once they are here is not going to go away with any quick political fix. Out of curiosity, has anyone reading these forums ever sponsored a person for a visa?

KenDckey -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/13/2015 4:15:05 AM)
I have Merc Married her and brought her to this country. She has since returned to her country. The process is long and somewhat crazy.

BamaD -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/13/2015 4:46:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey I have Merc Married her and brought her to this country. She has since returned to her country. The process is long and somewhat crazy. I can not see any justification for making it easier for people who come here illegally than for people who follow the law.

Kittenluv954 -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/13/2015 5:39:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech For reference; current requirements for immigration to the U.S. can be found at: http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-processes-and-procedures/green-card-eligibility I can see the fear that undocumented aliens may contain a desperate criminal element. I can see the point of empathy for impoverished people to enter the U.S. where they will be safer and have a chance at a decent living. A blanket absolution of the immigration requirements for a large undocumented alien population doesn't play well as a permanent solution. How and how much reform of immigration requirements is a hard subject to find a consensus on. But the real politic is that the corruption in the process of sneaking into the country and the taking advantage of undocumented aliens once they are here is not going to go away with any quick political fix. Out of curiosity, has anyone reading these forums ever sponsored a person for a visa? my sister did. married an albanian who defected from his soccer team on a nearly expired visa. he stayed married to her exactly as long as legally required, went to albania for a month, and came home asking for a divorce. really nice guy, and working under the table for his brother so he can avoid paying taxes makes him a real asset to this country. i live in south florida, and the immigrants have turned the place into a fucking toilet. anyone seen miami lately? lol i say send them all back on their banana boats. we wont miss them.

KenDckey -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/13/2015 8:39:27 AM)
Bama I agree with you. The process is the process and should be followed so that all have the opportunity to immigrate legally. Kitten. That happens all to often. Especially within the Military who bring brides home from overseas. I have seen it over andover.

mnottertail -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/13/2015 9:27:28 AM)
But everybody is arguing the expensive and untenable route we have been following since 1924. hunt down and grab up individuals, which is a civil matter, rather than incarcerating and draconian fines for the root cause of the problem, employers of illegal aliens which is both civil and criminal. We could cut our force considerably by raiding and draconian measures to those who hire them, and the fines would pay for enforcement. And the resulting publicity, and public shaming, as well as the destruction and parting out of of those criminal enterprises would create an unwillingness in the white collar criminal to continue it.

KenDckey -> RE: US Military in Border Security (3/13/2015 9:40:23 AM)
One problem with illegals joining the military. When I was doing security clearences, and it could well have changed since then but I doubt it, a foreign citizen (even one legally in the country) could not obtain a security clearance, until they became a US citizen. This limits both their promotion and assignment posibilities. This was done because they still owe their alligience to whatever country they came from (at least as I understand it from a legal standpoint).

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