RE: Benevolent Sexism

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Benevolent Sexism

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Benevolent Sexism

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/19/2015 5:34:03 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Defining cultural memes exist. But, often when you comment on them, you get labeled with some emotional epithet. Is it racist to dislike the popularization of "thug life"?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thug+Life
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/thug-life

I've always thought the meme for "redneck" was "proud of being ignorant".

Depends on WHY you dislike it. Is it because of a sense of superiority over blacks/hispanics/those that participate in "Thug Life"? Or because you don't like what it represents to ANY race?

And there are those in the cuckolding lifestyle who actively look for "thugs" in their bulls... is that racist? Could be. Can't know with out the why.

When I use thug based terms, it has no basis in race, just behavior.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to NookieNotes)

Post #: 101

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/19/2015 5:34:32 PM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

And to be clear, I will go on my experiences as a base point for interacting with people, then adapt to the individual.

I do not believe ALL men, women, blacks, white, Jews, Christians or any type of person are all the same. I do believe that groups of people, by sex, race, religion, and etc. can be guessed at as a starting place, based on experience, and customized/personalized from there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice
Prejudice is prejudgment, or forming an opinion before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case. The word is often used to refer to preconceived, usually unfavorable, judgments toward people or a person because of gender, political opinion, social class, age, disability, religion, sexuality, race/ethnicity, language, nationality, or other personal characteristics. In this case, it refers to a positive or negative evaluation of another person based on their perceived group membership.[1] Prejudice can also refer to unfounded beliefs[2] and may include "any unreasonable attitude that is unusually resistant to rational influence".[3] Gordon Allport defined prejudice as a "feeling, favorable or unfavorable, toward a person or thing, prior to, or not based on, actual experience".[4]

It appears to have escaped your notice that the two quotes you are comparing share no common element. Being aware of the potential possibilities in a situation does not equate to assuming them as facts and prejudging accordingly.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/19/2015 6:26:00 PM >

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 102

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/19/2015 5:37:20 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

Benevolent sexism is an oxymoron.

Not according to the feminist researchers who I referenced in my OP.

I was once called a sexist because I was holding a door for a young woman, she never made that mistake with me again.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 103

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/19/2015 6:08:26 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

Do you notice the date on those? Was gonna say "thug life seems so 90's to me". *shrugs*

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 104

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/20/2015 2:59:05 AM

NookieNotes

Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
And to be clear, I will go on my experiences as a base point for interacting with people, then adapt to the individual.

I do not believe ALL men, women, blacks, white, Jews, Christians or any type of person are all the same. I do believe that groups of people, by sex, race, religion, and etc. can be guessed at as a starting place, based on experience, and customized/personalized from there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice
Prejudice is prejudgment, or forming an opinion before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case. The word is often used to refer to preconceived, usually unfavorable, judgments toward people or a person because of gender, political opinion, social class, age, disability, religion, sexuality, race/ethnicity, language, nationality, or other personal characteristics. In this case, it refers to a positive or negative evaluation of another person based on their perceived group membership.[1] Prejudice can also refer to unfounded beliefs[2] and may include "any unreasonable attitude that is unusually resistant to rational influence".[3] Gordon Allport defined prejudice as a "feeling, favorable or unfavorable, toward a person or thing, prior to, or not based on, actual experience".[4]

Right. You are making my point. Thank you. (bold mine)

Obviously prejudice does NOT apply to treating the sexes differently, if you have developed your manners of treating them differently based on experiences, and are willing to be flexible for individuals.

So, therefore, this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Of course, having different standards and different ways of treating one sex vs the other is unsurprisingly sexism.

Is not universally correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Defining cultural memes exist. But, often when you comment on them, you get labeled with some emotional epithet. Is it racist to dislike the popularization of "thug life"?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Thug+Life
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/thug-life

I've always thought the meme for "redneck" was "proud of being ignorant".

Depends on WHY you dislike it. Is it because of a sense of superiority over blacks/hispanics/those that participate in "Thug Life"? Or because you don't like what it represents to ANY race?

And there are those in the cuckolding lifestyle who actively look for "thugs" in their bulls... is that racist? Could be. Can't know with out the why.

When I use thug based terms, it has no basis in race, just behavior.

Yeah, me too. *smiles*

It's important to know that some do, though... do how we use a term can be critical, if we are analyzing our intent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

And to be clear, I will go on my experiences as a base point for interacting with people, then adapt to the individual.

I do not believe ALL men, women, blacks, white, Jews, Christians or any type of person are all the same. I do believe that groups of people, by sex, race, religion, and etc. can be guessed at as a starting place, based on experience, and customized/personalized from there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice
Prejudice is prejudgment, or forming an opinion before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case. The word is often used to refer to preconceived, usually unfavorable, judgments toward people or a person because of gender, political opinion, social class, age, disability, religion, sexuality, race/ethnicity, language, nationality, or other personal characteristics. In this case, it refers to a positive or negative evaluation of another person based on their perceived group membership.[1] Prejudice can also refer to unfounded beliefs[2] and may include "any unreasonable attitude that is unusually resistant to rational influence".[3] Gordon Allport defined prejudice as a "feeling, favorable or unfavorable, toward a person or thing, prior to, or not based on, actual experience".[4]

It appears to have escaped your notice that the two quotes you are comparing share no common element. Being aware of the potential possibilities in a situation does not equate to assuming them as facts and prejudging accordingly.

K.

Thank you. Seemed obvious to me.

_____________________________

Nookie
--
https://datingkinky.com

I Write! A few of my books on Amazon: http://amazon.com/author/msnnotes

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 105

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/20/2015 7:44:49 PM

GotSteel

Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
Obviously prejudice does NOT apply to treating the sexes differently, if you have developed your manners of treating them differently based on experiences, and are willing to be flexible for individuals.

Sexist until proven otherwise is better than sexist no matter what in that it is potentially possible for each individual to overcome your prejudice. However, that in no way demonstrates a lack of prejudice and that hurdle they have to overcome is called discrimination.

Your other point, "based on experiences" does not necessarily disprove prejudice, I mean if your talking about things actually related to male/female physiology then that's fair. But looking at the recent threads on these topics, that's typically not what people are talking about.

(in reply to NookieNotes)

Post #: 106

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/20/2015 8:19:24 PM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Sexist until proven otherwise is better than sexist no matter what in that it is potentially possible for each individual to overcome your prejudice. However, that in no way demonstrates a lack of prejudice and that hurdle they have to overcome is called discrimination.

Your other point, "based on experiences" does not necessarily disprove prejudice, I mean if your talking about things actually related to male/female physiology then that's fair. But looking at the recent threads on these topics, that's typically not what people are talking about.

Guilty until proven innocent was the accepted view during the Witch Trials, and remains popular even today among moonbats promoting a new outbreak of insanity.

K.

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 107

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/20/2015 10:08:10 PM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
Obviously prejudice does NOT apply to treating the sexes differently, if you have developed your manners of treating them differently based on experiences, and are willing to be flexible for individuals.

Sexist until proven otherwise is better than sexist no matter what in that it is potentially possible for each individual to overcome your prejudice. However, that in no way demonstrates a lack of prejudice and that hurdle they have to overcome is called discrimination.

Your other point, "based on experiences" does not necessarily disprove prejudice, I mean if your talking about things actually related to male/female physiology then that's fair. But looking at the recent threads on these topics, that's typically not what people are talking about.
anymore.

I am not sure. I think that with sexism and racism and such it is "guilty and cannot prove yourself innocent." It is rather Kafkaesque anymore.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 108

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/21/2015 12:09:53 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I am not sure. I think that with sexism and racism and such it is "guilty and cannot prove yourself innocent." It is rather Kafkaesque anymore.

K.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/21/2015 12:10:05 AM >

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 109

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/21/2015 5:06:22 AM

NookieNotes

Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
Obviously prejudice does NOT apply to treating the sexes differently, if you have developed your manners of treating them differently based on experiences, and are willing to be flexible for individuals.

Sexist until proven otherwise is better than sexist no matter what in that it is potentially possible for each individual to overcome your prejudice.

So, dictionary terms don't do it for you. We're conversing in your own made up language? Again, I present to you:

prej·u·dice
ˈprejədəs/
noun: prejudice; plural noun: prejudices
preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

So, you just ignoring this does not make it less true for those of us who prefer to use words as they are defined, or to at least agree upon a common definition.

quote:

However, that in no way demonstrates a lack of prejudice and that hurdle they have to overcome is called discrimination.

dis·crim·i·na·tion
dəˌskriməˈnāSH(ə)n/
noun: discrimination; plural noun: discriminations
1. the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

So, setting aside your own personal use of prejudice, you are now and forever determining for every other person in the world that MY treatment of people of various sexes is unjust?

"Oh," you say,"You're taking it to absurd extremes."

To which I reply, I believe that the people who choose to spend time with me, in person or online, and engage with me, do so for their own reasons.

Most, I would guess, do it because I add more positivity to their lives than I take from them, regardless of what you may call sexism, prejudice, discrimination, stereotyping, and etc.

quote:

Your other point, "based on experiences" does not necessarily disprove prejudice,

Actually it does. By definition.

quote:

I mean if your talking about things actually related to male/female physiology then that's fair. But looking at the recent threads on these topics, that's typically not what people are talking about.

You DO realize that physiology affects psychology, right?

Have you ever, for example, known a woman who suffers from PMS? You know that is based on the body affecting the mind, correct?

Have you ever gotten cranky from too little sleep? Or had a headache that made you less able to think clearly? Or been drunk and made questionable decisions?

And yet, you want to somehow separate the mind and all of psychology from the fleshy clockwork it is housed in?

No. Just no.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
Obviously prejudice does NOT apply to treating the sexes differently, if you have developed your manners of treating them differently based on experiences, and are willing to be flexible for individuals.

Sexist until proven otherwise is better than sexist no matter what in that it is potentially possible for each individual to overcome your prejudice. However, that in no way demonstrates a lack of prejudice and that hurdle they have to overcome is called discrimination.

Your other point, "based on experiences" does not necessarily disprove prejudice, I mean if your talking about things actually related to male/female physiology then that's fair. But looking at the recent threads on these topics, that's typically not what people are talking about.
anymore.

I am not sure. I think that with sexism and racism and such it is "guilty and cannot prove yourself innocent." It is rather Kafkaesque anymore.

Oh, yes. I think so. If sexism is everywhere, then it must be in me. And that little girl over there, who chose to play with her doll, instead of hitting the monkey bars with a stick. Oh, and in those boys who pull her pigtails and run away giggling...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I am not sure. I think that with sexism and racism and such it is "guilty and cannot prove yourself innocent." It is rather Kafkaesque anymore.

K.

*gigglesnorts*

_____________________________

Nookie
--
https://datingkinky.com

I Write! A few of my books on Amazon: http://amazon.com/author/msnnotes

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 110

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/21/2015 7:56:32 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

FR

Further to my comment, now lost in the dark recesses of this thread, on 'Oneupmanship':

An example of 'benevolent sexism':

My ex GF used to beat me at pool, regularly. After a while this began to piss me off mightily. So, borrowing the technique from Potter's books, I began to compliment her on her pool-playing. I ratcheted it up so that in the end I was *laying it on with a trowel*. At the point where I added the comment (said with full warmth, and *no sarcastic tone whatsoever* [vitally important]) "I love to see a woman doing something well!" - she cracked, and went at me with her pool stick. She'd read Potter's books. She knew when she was being 'ployed'.

That was conscious. I'd guess 'benevolent sexism' is where it isn't conscious - where, especially, it's become part of ordinary every day custom. I get it: it's gentlemanly and nice to offer to carry a woman's bags and I'd still do it. But I read somewhere that one subtext of such an offer is 'I'm strong, you're weak, and don't you forget it'.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to NookieNotes)

Post #: 111

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/21/2015 8:19:44 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

>one subtext of such an offer is 'I'm strong, you're weak, and don't you forget it'.

Any woman who insists on that subtext is displaying her insecurity, and being a bitch in the bargain.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/21/2015 8:21:49 AM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 112

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/21/2015 8:30:08 AM

NookieNotes

Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
I get it: it's gentlemanly and nice to offer to carry a woman's bags and I'd still do it. But I read somewhere that one subtext of such an offer is 'I'm strong, you're weak, and don't you forget it'.

LOL! So, If I offer to help a man put together an IKEA shelf, am I implying he is incapable? Or if I do the dishes instead of him, I am implying he is inferior?

No.

_____________________________

Nookie
--
https://datingkinky.com

I Write! A few of my books on Amazon: http://amazon.com/author/msnnotes

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 113

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/21/2015 8:34:57 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
I get it: it's gentlemanly and nice to offer to carry a woman's bags and I'd still do it. But I read somewhere that one subtext of such an offer is 'I'm strong, you're weak, and don't you forget it'.

LOL! So, If I offer to help a man put together an IKEA shelf, am I implying he is incapable? Or if I do the dishes instead of him, I am implying he is inferior?

No.

Sorry, I thought I was clear: It's in the motivation, or the culture behind it, if the motivation isn't conscious. ETA: Also, where it exists, it's not one or the other - it's *ambiguous*. It's not simply all benevolence, or all sexism, but a subtle mix.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 3/21/2015 8:37:27 AM >

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to NookieNotes)

Post #: 114

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/21/2015 8:41:40 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

>one subtext of such an offer is 'I'm strong, you're weak, and don't you forget it'.

Any woman who insists on that subtext is displaying her insecurity, and being a bitch in the bargain.

K.

So you didn't think that *i* was the one being the bitch in the example I gave - of the pool-playing and my complimenting my GF? Cos I sure did!

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 115

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/21/2015 9:02:01 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

So you didn't think that *i* was the one being the bitch in the example I gave - of the pool-playing and my complimenting my GF? Cos I sure did!

Well since you ask, my guess is that she didn't actually attack you with the pool cue, beyond maybe a couple of well-deserved smacks on non-vital areas, and that you both had a good laugh. If you didn't, then either you really are a dick or she was off her meds.

Of course, it could be both.

K.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 116

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/21/2015 10:40:44 AM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I am not sure. I think that with sexism and racism and such it is "guilty and cannot prove yourself innocent." It is rather Kafkaesque anymore.

K.

Your racism knows NO bounds does it? Have you NO shame? How could you leave the Asians out?

Go. Even older and more difficult than chess.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 117

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/21/2015 2:17:01 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

So you didn't think that *i* was the one being the bitch in the example I gave - of the pool-playing and my complimenting my GF? Cos I sure did!

Well since you ask, my guess is that she didn't actually attack you with the pool cue, beyond maybe a couple of well-deserved smacks on non-vital areas, and that you both had a good laugh. If you didn't, then either you really are a dick or she was off her meds.

Of course, it could be both.

K.

Oh, women do the reverse on men. Frequently, in my experience. For instance, I think they know *exactly* what you're going to feel when they tell you, warmly, that you're "sweet". Or that your body has a "sort of feminine beauty to it". Or that "though your hands are small, they're strong". Or, "I'm not so superficial as to go for stereotypical good looks in a man - I love your face!"

I had the "you have good looks, in a kind of feminine way" once. It grated majorly - so I told her that she had classical lines to her own face - a chiselled and strong face, in fact ... much like that of Burt Lancaster, actually. She was angry, unsurprisingly. Well, fuck it, I thought - now she knows what it feels like.

But the ace card - to be played only when a GF is royally pissing you off (i.e. when she's beating you at something you think you should be doing better than her) - is to say "I *so much* enjoy seeing a woman do something well!" Mind: it doesn't work if you sound sarky. You *must* put all the warmth and approval into your voice that you can muster. (You only need the merest whisper of a hint that you don't see a woman doing something well *all that often* - you have to let her draw that conclusion for herself.) That's the way to maximise your GF's pissed-offness. Especially if you arrange to look sensitive and hurt when she accuses you of being sexist.

That is true benevolent sexism - a sub-branch of Oneupmanship (for which, see Stephen Potter's books and the film 'School for Scandal' starring Terry-Thomas and Ian Carmichael). It's the art of bigging them up so much they're nigh on goddesses; while *at exactly the same time* making them feel vaguely as though they're about as useful and impressive as delightful fluffy hamsters with severe learning challenges.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 118

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/21/2015 2:48:34 PM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

The door thing, it's common courtesy to have a look over your shoulder to see if anyone - man or woman - is behind you.

Same with driving, if someone is at a junction and looks like they could be there for a while then it is helpful to wave them out - you wouldn't examine the gender of the person in the driving seat before deciding whether or not to be helpful.

There may be people who only open doors for women, but perhaps that's more to do with the rules of social engagement than a belief that most women are too feeble to open a door.

Were you to bar women from the armed forces on the grounds that you believed they would leave their sentry post in order to make a dress out of the nearest clump of grass, then that probably is sexist and has little to do with the rules of social engagement.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 119

RE: Benevolent Sexism - 3/21/2015 4:26:25 PM

Zonie63

Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I am not sure. I think that with sexism and racism and such it is "guilty and cannot prove yourself innocent." It is rather Kafkaesque anymore.

K.

About this picture, it appears that both sides have a complete set of pieces, yet there's also extra black and white Queens. Why would there be extra queens? Is that sexist?

In fact, I always thought chess itself was a bit sexist, since the Queen can move everywhere, while the King can only move one space at a time.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 120

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Benevolent Sexism

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.125