BamaD
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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joether
quote:
ORIGINAL: BamaD
Of the 20 some odd studies done on this all but about 7 show that things like cc have a positive effect on crime rates. Not the massive drop we have seen but positive none the less. About 5 show no effect, no effect busts the argument to destroy a right when it does no good. Two show increased ownership and cc increase crime. While they are most likely the two sources you would accept as legitimate they come from Bloomberg, a proven liar who makes up his numbers. And even he admitted at one time to half a million legitimate uses of firearms to stop crimes, it has since been removed from his site. The other comes from handgun control who unlike the ones that showed a positive effect refused to reveal either their sources or methodology. We have told you about this repeatedly and you dismiss everything that doesn't fit your view as a illegitimate source so there is no point in wasting my time giving them to you again. I will note that the FBI estimates over 650,000 legitimate defensive uses of firearms a month. Before you say but we have more murder and mayhem than Europe remember that Mexico has more than the US and Europe combined and draconian gun laws. I know, I have heard it repeatedly Mexico has sociological differences from the US and Europe. To take that into account you also have to accept that there are major sociological differences between the US and Europe. If that negates the crime in Mexico, it negates it in the US.
I think you understand that I've refrain from not using politics into this. That I've kept away from that aspect and simply looked at the OP's perspective in an objective viewpoint.
When it comes to actual studies, and not merely studies based on statistics only; the pool of information is not even a billionth the knowledge we have access to when compared to automobiles. Yes, many people die in car accidents each year. Yet, its how those cars are designed. How the roadways are designed. How laws have been crafted. How regulation and enforcement have come into play. All these concepts have had an effect on reducing the number of fatalities. At the end of the day, most Americans want safe roads to travel on.
Looking at actual firearm studies (i.e. non heavily or moderately based on statistics), is very slim. There was the study with CBS and the Philadelphia (or is that Pittsburg) PD. And those 2nd amendment guys whom tried to find ways for a sole gun owner to survive the Charlie Harbo attacks. Beyound that, the amount of evidence is very slim to none in many areas.
I bring this up, in all honesty, that the level of information on this subject matter is abysmal! If we wanted to find out what happens to an SUV that is T-boned by a sports car; we could find that information out. Easily I might add! If we wanted to find out what happens when specific cars roll over (end to end, or side to side), we can find that information. Easily! If we wanted to find out that 'x' parts were defective, we could find this information out. Usually tied to a recall by the manufacture. And usually makes head lines. When was the last time we hard a firearm or one or more parts on that firearm might be defective per the manufacture on national news?
And, I am stressing, I'm not pushing a political viewpoint on firearms. I'm open if someone makes a good argument with solid evidence to back their viewpoints up. But right now, the available evidence on firearm ownership with private citizens, when confronted by crime, is surprisingly tiny. We do a heavy amount of research on....EVERYTHING....in this nation From soil and water contamination, to air quality in cities, to even how to handle a rail car fire. But when it comes to firearms, the amount of knowledge is very low, if not extremely low.
I point out the CBS and the 2nd amendment guys as two examples in which the studies find the myth pushed by gun nuts (whom are mentally/emotionally unstable compared to firearm owners) that the opposite is true. Science has shown a few million myths and superstitions to be absolutely false. Hell, there is a TV show about it: Mythbusters. Yet, when it comes to firearms, we Americans are squeamish on facing facts and reality. Why is that? If what the gun nuts state is true, then there should be no problem in having it tested.
Unless they feel their views would not hold up well to scientific scrutiny. I've said it before, that we should test things. Find funding for the research from as political neutral sources as possible. Find researchers whom are pretty credible individuals to put together a series of experiments to test various hypothesis. That the evidence is clearly and cleanly gathered to which one or more conclusions would be based upon. All of this is done, because the study's findings...WILL BE...scrutinized. By all sides in the political spectrum.
Why is it we can find a huge amount of money from the government (and other sources) to figure out how to make cars and roads safer, but not a penny for firearms research? Doesn't that strike you as a bit odd?
So anything leading to a conclusion you don't like is either illegitimate or covers the wrong information.
Since the last time the government funded a study on firearms it came out like something Bloomberg would have published no it is not at all odd. Why pay someone to lie?
_____________________________
Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine
People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.
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Gun sales vs crime stats in CA - 
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