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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Indiana's Republican legislative leaders have unveiled changes to the state's new religious objections law that has faced criticism it could allow discrimination against lesbians and gays.

The amendment to the Religious Freedom Restoration Act released Thursday prohibits service providers from using the law as a legal defense for refusing to provide services, goods, facilities or accommodations. It also bars discrimination based on race, color, religion, ancestry, age, national origin, disability, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or United States military service.

A conference committee must discuss the proposed changes to the law, and both the House and the Senate will need to approve them before they can go to Gov. Mike Pence.

Pence called for changes to clarify the law Tuesday in response to an uproar fueled by discrimination concerns.

The Indiana Governor's actions seem to confirm the criticisms that were levelled at the new law. It is clear that Pence was forced into backtracking by the hostile response to the new laws from all quarters. The admission that changes are needed to exclude discrimination against minority communities implicitly confirms that the new laws were flawed and that action is needed to remove these flaws.

Hopefully the legislature will get it right this time. If and when it does, we can chalk this up as a victory for the good guys and a defeat for the bigots. What's not to like about that?

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

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ORIGINAL: eulero83

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

post#: 423

Would the baker under indiana law be protected?

Actually, it's doubtful if the baker would be protected, here. The baker cited "discriminatory and hateful behavior". They didn't invoke the magic word "religion" (according to what's posted, here). Whereas the potential customer was exercising what he believes to be his religion. It would seem that this would be covered as "the baker, discriminanting (in keeping with the thread title) against the potential customer because of the latter's religious beliefs." It would be like a Muslim baker refusing to service a Jewish customer, just because the baker sees the Yarmulke.



Michael

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


The bigots are screaming blue murder cos they arent allowed to discriminate, even when their fallback on their philosophy for hate is used as an excuse...
its a shame.....

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


"Who serves pizza at weddings?" is as ignorant a question as "Who eats Chinese food for breakfast?"

I was raised in an Italian family. My grandparents were named "Di Matteo". I've been to an Italian wedding or two and you can bet your bottom dollar that pizza (amongst a host of other things) was served. Pizza is a variation on a very old traditional Sicilian staple food that was about all that poor Sicilians could afford to eat on a day-in-day-out basis.

Just another example of: "You only have freedom if I think you should have it." Fucking laughable.



Michael

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The bigots are screaming blue murder cos they arent allowed to discriminate, even when their fallback on their philosophy for hate is used as an excuse...
its a shame.....

Indeed. One can sympathise with them. What is their world coming to? Is there no one left that can be hated and marginalised? As soon as the bigots find an object for their hate, it turns around and bites them legally. It's just not fair is it? Soon there will no one left to hate without running foul of the law and what are the poor bigots going to do then??

How will the poor klutzs learn to live without hating someone?

Yeah really, some people just can't seem to live without hating someone.

K.

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I was raised in an Italian family. My grandparents were named "Di Matteo". I've been to an Italian wedding or two and you can bet your bottom dollar that pizza (amongst a host of other things) was served.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Interesting reflection by a Christian pastor:

When I listen to the outcry surrounding Indiana’s new law, I hear frustration with us, Christians. The outcry isn’t about the law, it’s about us. It’s a fear that we will discriminate. And it is a fear based on a history that, whether we like it or not, is ours. We have, in no shortage of ways, broken relationships with the LGBTQ community. We have expelled our sons and daughters. We have protested them. We blamed them for the ills of society like a scapegoat. And no matter what we believe about same-sex marriage, that is wrong. Because of that, restoring relationship and trust with the LGBTQ community is on us. Even if you disagree with all I said above, restoring the relationship is on us because we are called as followers of Jesus to be ministers of reconciliation.

* * *

You see, the question now being asked of Christians is, “Will you treat us as human beings?” That’s what behind wanting a cake for a same-sex wedding. Or photographs. It isn’t shoving a lifestyle down people’s throats. It’s simply a desire to be seen as human. To be treated as human. To enjoy life as we all want to enjoy life.

For that reason, I’d bake the cake. If Jesus can make 120-180 gallons of wine for a wedding party that is already long underway and not be condoning or celebrating drunkenness, I can make a cake for a wedding that I may have some theological issues with. Truth is, we as Christians do this all the time. We bake cakes for Jewish weddings, weddings for people who divorced for non-biblical reasons, atheist weddings, and maybe even a Wiccan wedding. To choose one lifestyle we disapprove of as the one where we cannot offer services is hypocritical.

I cannot find a place in the Gospels where Jesus refuses to serve someone who has a different worldview than he does. The Samaritan woman, the Roman Centurion, the Syrophoenician woman, tax collectors, and on and on.

http://sojo.net/blogs/2015/04/02/outrage-over-rfra-might-be-fear-christians

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

Just out of curiosity, you don't think a request for the traditional figures on the top of cake to be two "grooms" or two 'brides" would be a clue?

That hints at a simple workaround (though one that evades the central principle) - get them to make the cake; you put your own figures on the top of it. I guess you make a point to the relevant cake maker by sending them photos of their cake being cut at the wedding.

What point would that be? That the gay/lesbian couple made someone unknowingly violate their religious beliefs? This from people that expect you to recognize their right to follow theirs?

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

Just out of curiosity, you don't think a request for the traditional figures on the top of cake to be two "grooms" or two 'brides" would be a clue?

That hints at a simple workaround (though one that evades the central principle) - get them to make the cake; you put your own figures on the top of it. I guess you make a point to the relevant cake maker by sending them photos of their cake being cut at the wedding.

What point would that be? That the gay/lesbian couple made someone unknowingly violate their religious beliefs? This from people that expect you to recognize their right to follow theirs?

The point that whether the cake makers like it or not, their product is going to be used for a gay wedding. Also the point that the consumer is *free* to do what he or she wants with the product, once it has been bought.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

Just out of curiosity, you don't think a request for the traditional figures on the top of cake to be two "grooms" or two 'brides" would be a clue?

That hints at a simple workaround (though one that evades the central principle) - get them to make the cake; you put your own figures on the top of it. I guess you make a point to the relevant cake maker by sending them photos of their cake being cut at the wedding.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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Lets see, do you think it is worse for the owner of the business to decide, or the government.

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The business has been shut down by death threats and threats of burning the place down, how open minded.

This points to one reason we have governments - or some other authority to act as an adjudicator - to arbitrate between conflicting people's freedoms, the better to avoid descent into violence.

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

Just out of curiosity, you don't think a request for the traditional figures on the top of cake to be two "grooms" or two 'brides" would be a clue?

That hints at a simple workaround (though one that evades the central principle) - get them to make the cake; you put your own figures on the top of it. I guess you make a point to the relevant cake maker by sending them photos of their cake being cut at the wedding.

What point would that be? That the gay/lesbian couple made someone unknowingly violate their religious beliefs? This from people that expect you to recognize their right to follow theirs?

The point that whether the cake makers like it or not, their product is going to be used for a gay wedding. Also the point that the consumer is *free* to do what he or she wants with the product, once it has been bought.

While forcing someone else to go against their beliefs...by being dishonest in the manner they do so. Yes Sir...that's something to teach your children: Never let your beliefs be attacked or sabotaged but feel free to attack anyone else's or sabotage anyone else's...as long as the 'anyone else' are Christians.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

The "reasonable open minded" people want to kill people who disagree with them.

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The point is that the "bigots" want to protect businesses from having to do things they find morally offensive.
The "reasonable open minded" people want to kill people who disagree with them.