RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 11:01:10 AM)

Lucy I like it better up here with the pompous ... it is so depressing down there with you folks that find it soooo hard to realize how right I am...about EVERYTHING.... but of course I forgive your ignorance...bless you my darling.

Butch




Tkman117 -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 12:40:51 PM)

Lol, Emperor Butch, has a nice ring to it [:D]




DesideriScuri -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 1:37:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Saudi deploys 100 fighter jets, 150,000 soldiers for anti-Houthi campaign
Saudi Arabia deployed 100 fighter jets, 150,000 soldiers and other navy units on Thursday, after it launched its operation against the Houthi rebels in Yemen, Al Arabiya News Channel reported. The Saudi aerial deployment enabled the Royal Saudi Air Force to take control of Yemen’s airspace early Thursday...
In their joint statement Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar and Kuwait said they “decided to repel Houthi militias, al-Qaeda and ISIS [Islamic State of Iraq and Syria] in the country.” The Gulf states warned that the Houthi coup in Yemen represented a “major threat” to the region’s stability...
The UAE contributed 30 fighter jets, Bahrain 15, Kuwaiti 15, Qatar 10 and Jordan 6 in the operation. On Thursday, Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan and Sudan also expressed their readiness to participate on the ground in Yemen.

Turkey, Egypt join military operation against Houthis in Yemen
Turkey offered its support to Saudi Arabia's military offensive against Houthi rebels in Yemen on Thursday, calling on the militia group and its "foreign supporters" to stop acting in ways that disturbed security and peace in the region...
Saudi warplanes continued to bomb the Houthis on Thursday as part of their offensive "Storm of Resolve" to weaken the Shiite rebels fighting against President Abed Rabbo Mansour Hadi.
Four naval vessels were additionally being sent from Egypt and were expected to reach the Red Sea by Thursday evening to secure the Gulf of Aden after Hadi's supporters regained control of its airport from the rebels, who had occupied it on Wednesday.

Iran demands immediate halt to military actions in Yemen
Iran demanded an immediate halt to Saudi-led military operations in Yemen on Thursday and said it would make all necessary efforts to control the crisis there, Iranian news agencies reported . . . "The Saudi-led air strikes should stop immediately," the Students News Agency ISNA quoted Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif as saying . . . Tehran denies providing money and training to the Shi'ite Houthi militia, as alleged by some Western and Yemeni officials.
There are ten nations involved at present, and Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has stated that any threat to Saudi Arabia's territorial integrity would evoke a "strong response" from (nuclear) Pakistan.
K.


Maybe that corner has been turned? Muslims are fighting against Muslim extremists. Wish it would have come sooner, but glad it's happening anyway.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 1:40:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
Well, the Americans didn't exactly get involved the the Syrian rebellion or the Egyptian uprising, some countries simpky need to figure things out for themselves I guess. Personally I feel that our nations shouldn't be fighting over there, they should be supplying humanitarian aid, not weapons or troops.


A HA!!! I knew there was something we would agree on!!!

Well stated, TK.




Tkman117 -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 2:21:44 PM)

Lol, why thank you [;)]

But in all honesty, I hate what is happening over there just as much as the next guy, but by intervening in a region we know very little about, like in Afghanistan and like what happened last time in Iraq, we're not solving the problem, just slapping a band aid on a gaping wound. If we want to help, we should probably try a different approach that doesn't involve as many explosions, because that's proved not to solve anything.




Kirata -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 3:27:08 PM)


UPDATE:

Greek and Russian press sources are reporting that Egyptian warships in the Gulf of Aden have fired warning shots across the bows of Iranian navy vessels trying to reach Yemen.

K.




BamaD -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 3:58:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Saudi deploys 100 fighter jets, 150,000 soldiers for anti-Houthi campaign
Saudi Arabia deployed 100 fighter jets, 150,000 soldiers and other navy units on Thursday, after it launched its operation against the Houthi rebels in Yemen, Al Arabiya News Channel reported. The Saudi aerial deployment enabled the Royal Saudi Air Force to take control of Yemen’s airspace early Thursday...
In their joint statement Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar and Kuwait said they “decided to repel Houthi militias, al-Qaeda and ISIS [Islamic State of Iraq and Syria] in the country.” The Gulf states warned that the Houthi coup in Yemen represented a “major threat” to the region’s stability...
The UAE contributed 30 fighter jets, Bahrain 15, Kuwaiti 15, Qatar 10 and Jordan 6 in the operation. On Thursday, Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan and Sudan also expressed their readiness to participate on the ground in Yemen.

Turkey, Egypt join military operation against Houthis in Yemen
Turkey offered its support to Saudi Arabia's military offensive against Houthi rebels in Yemen on Thursday, calling on the militia group and its "foreign supporters" to stop acting in ways that disturbed security and peace in the region...
Saudi warplanes continued to bomb the Houthis on Thursday as part of their offensive "Storm of Resolve" to weaken the Shiite rebels fighting against President Abed Rabbo Mansour Hadi.
Four naval vessels were additionally being sent from Egypt and were expected to reach the Red Sea by Thursday evening to secure the Gulf of Aden after Hadi's supporters regained control of its airport from the rebels, who had occupied it on Wednesday.

Iran demands immediate halt to military actions in Yemen
Iran demanded an immediate halt to Saudi-led military operations in Yemen on Thursday and said it would make all necessary efforts to control the crisis there, Iranian news agencies reported . . . "The Saudi-led air strikes should stop immediately," the Students News Agency ISNA quoted Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif as saying . . . Tehran denies providing money and training to the Shi'ite Houthi militia, as alleged by some Western and Yemeni officials.
There are ten nations involved at present, and Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has stated that any threat to Saudi Arabia's territorial integrity would evoke a "strong response" from (nuclear) Pakistan.
K.


Maybe that corner has been turned? Muslims are fighting against Muslim extremists. Wish it would have come sooner, but glad it's happening anyway.


Better late than never.




kdsub -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 4:16:23 PM)

It seems to me as though we are picking sides in another civil war... the US on one side and Iran...Russia... and covertly China on the other. I hope we just stay out of this fray. They do not need our help.

Butch




PeonForHer -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 4:39:20 PM)

FR

Every new intervention by the West into the ME makes me think of 'the butterfly effect', these days.




kdsub -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 4:49:02 PM)

Yep there are just no clear borders or sides. Geographical lines have little meaning with opposing groups mixed within. The only thing we can be assured of is they hate each other....but they hate us more.

There is just no answer until their blood lust is sated and one side or the other... or others... win or at least punishes their opposition to where they agree to peace to survive. We have no say and should not have a say in this.

This would have happened long ago if the US and it's allies, along with Israel, had not given these differing groups a common enemy.

Butch




thishereboi -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 5:23:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Every new intervention by the West into the ME makes me think of 'the butterfly effect', these days.


[sm=agree.gif]




dcnovice -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 6:23:22 PM)

FR

Lately I've been reading a fascinating book, Indomitable Will: LBJ in the Presidency. It makes an interesting backdrop to this thread.

The President voiced some frank concerns during a May 27, 1964, conversation with National Security Advisor McGeorge Bundy:

It looks like to me we're getting into another Korea. It just worries the hell out of me. ... And it's just the biggest damn mess I ever saw.

It's damned easy to get in a war, but it's going to be awfully hard to ever extricate yourself if you get in.




Politesub53 -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 6:26:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Maybe that corner has been turned? Muslims are fighting against Muslim extremists. Wish it would have come sooner, but glad it's happening anyway.



Why is it always me who has to put you people straight. Saudi and Qatar, Americas allies, are funding extremism on the one hand and denying doing so on the other.

There are no Muslims fighting extremists Muslims in Yemen, it is Sunni versus Shia, Saudi versus Iran. Plain and simple, why else do you think a military as well established as Saudi let AQ operate in its own back yard. Still, its great news for the arms trade huh. [8|]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html




epiphiny43 -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 6:41:49 PM)

A far more nuanced set of views was on NPR by a long time Middle East correspondent. His observation is the general turmoil and chaos of Syria has created an environment where all the many existing political, religious, tribal, racial and 'other' historical divisions in the area are being fed and inflamed. As well as creating and nourishing the growing net-expert Islamic States that are creating world wide individual extremists. This one probably isn't going back in the bottle.
Yemen is typical in having a multi-level conflict with many players, in and out of country. Many of whom have changed sides repeatedly. His opinion is that not containing and dousing the Syria conflict early may turn out to be a far worse judgement by the international powers than anything recent including Iraq/Iran.
My opinion is there are No paths to international peace as long as a paranoid and expansive Russia is part of the Security Council. And that fixes only with an internal change from a people tired of manipulation and exploitation. Which I doubt the Kremlin can't control.




Politesub53 -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 6:44:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It seems to me as though we are picking sides in another civil war... the US on one side and Iran...Russia... and covertly China on the other. I hope we just stay out of this fray. They do not need our help.

Butch



China......... WTF are you on about ?




Politesub53 -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 6:47:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

A far more nuanced set of views was on NPR by a long time Middle East correspondent. His observation is the general turmoil and chaos of Syria has created an environment where all the many existing political, religious, tribal, racial and 'other' historical divisions in the area are being fed and inflamed. As well as creating and nourishing the growing net-expert Islamic States that are creating world wide individual extremists. This one probably isn't going back in the bottle.
Yemen is typical in having a multi-level conflict with many players, in and out of country. Many of whom have changed sides repeatedly. His opinion is that not containing and dousing the Syria conflict early may turn out to be a far worse judgement by the international powers than anything recent including Iraq/Iran.
My opinion is there are No paths to international peace as long as a paranoid and expansive Russia is part of the Security Council. And that fixes only with an internal change from a people tired of manipulation and exploitation. Which I doubt the Kremlin can't control.


Except all the security council mebers have invested interests in the Middle East. your claims about Russia, correct as they are, also apply to everywhere else.




kdsub -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 7:11:40 PM)

Politesub I believe it is in China's economic interest to keep the US and Iran from reconciling their differences and this new confrontation is a perfect way to continue and even widen the divide. They will aid Iran and their Shia allies for this very reason. And as is the norm for China they will do it covertly to save face in world opinion.

Butch




DesideriScuri -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 7:13:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Maybe that corner has been turned? Muslims are fighting against Muslim extremists. Wish it would have come sooner, but glad it's happening anyway.

Why is it always me who has to put you people straight. Saudi and Qatar, Americas allies, are funding extremism on the one hand and denying doing so on the other.
There are no Muslims fighting extremists Muslims in Yemen, it is Sunni versus Shia, Saudi versus Iran. Plain and simple, why else do you think a military as well established as Saudi let AQ operate in its own back yard. Still, its great news for the arms trade huh. [8|]
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html


Why? Probably because you've an over-inflated sense of self.

    quote:

    In their joint statement Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar and Kuwait said they “decided to repel Houthi militias, al-Qaeda and ISIS [Islamic State of Iraq and Syria] in the country.






epiphiny43 -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 7:22:38 PM)

Few if any others are directly blocking any and all peacemaking that doesn't support and continue the Syrian regime as is. Which is no peace at all.
Russia has always struggled with the dichotomy between cultural institutionalization of conspiracy paranoia to remarkable degrees and the pragmatic Real Politic of maintaining power and influence. The present government suffers from the usual Russian paranoia and distrust and a very sharp view to causing trouble that feeds internal goals while probably shooting itself in the foot internationally. The Syrian trouble making may rebound in uncontrollable violence in Russia's Islamic bordering states and internal provinces. It is everywhere else.
The Crimea mess has all but tanked the Russian economy. Motivating all your customers as an Energy State to actively seek less political sources of power can't be good in the long run. The remaining window to profit from geologic hydrocarbon energy before sustainable, clean and cheaper energy matures is smaller than Russia or the Saudis want to think about




Politesub53 -> RE: Things are getting hot fast in the Middle East (3/27/2015 7:28:22 PM)

So you really think Saudi and Qatar are going after IS and AQ.

Thats a bold claim but pretty stupid given their policy so far, dont you think.

yep, I have an over inflated ego, and wrote the report I linked to myself. [8|]

Some of you really should learn about the Sunni Shia divide, it isnt too fucking difficult to understand.

Edit to add, this is in reply to DS.




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