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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Count me as one of those who frequently thinks, "Wouldn't it be good if, now that we humans have managed to survive to the 21st Century, we could finally jettison all religion as a thing of the past?

Well, YMM and probably will, V. It's just not an argument that I can be bothered to broach here.

and who would make the multitudes of moral determinations that we make on a daily basis as a matter of course for self governance?

every thought that is accepted as true correct or fact starts with a personal 'belief' in its being true, then acting upon your accepted belief, (esp moral beliefs) are in fact 'your religion' and that holds true even for atheists since they have a moral code of conduct.

You are trying to use a size 29 word to cover a size 38 ass. According to definitions, it just will not stretch that far.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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. But while the truth must remain an open question, there is one thing that simply is not: Beliefs have effects on the person who holds them, and those effects are independent of whether or not the object of belief is real.

I have been preaching this for a long time. It really does not make a difference if God or a God exists or not... In fact he absolutely does exist if nothing else in the minds of the believer... And the actions of that believer are very real and can and do have power over everyone on this earth. So how can anyone say..." God does not exist" when his believers shape the world as we know it... It is simply reality.

Butch

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But, to me it does matter whether or not a God exists because points of view really matter.

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Count me as one of those who frequently thinks, "Wouldn't it be good if, now that we humans have managed to survive to the 21st Century, we could finally jettison all religion as a thing of the past?

Well, YMM and probably will, V. It's just not an argument that I can be bothered to broach here.

and who would make the multitudes of moral determinations that we make on a daily basis as a matter of course for self governance?

every thought that is accepted as true correct or fact starts with a personal 'belief' in its being true, then acting upon your accepted belief, (esp moral beliefs) are in fact 'your religion' and that holds true even for atheists since they have a moral code of conduct.

You are trying to use a size 29 word to cover a size 38 ass. According to definitions, it just will not stretch that far.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Count me as one of those who frequently thinks, "Wouldn't it be good if, now that we humans have managed to survive to the 21st Century, we could finally jettison all religion as a thing of the past?

Well, YMM and probably will, V. It's just not an argument that I can be bothered to broach here.

and who would make the multitudes of moral determinations that we make on a daily basis as a matter of course for self governance?

every thought that is accepted as true correct or fact starts with a personal 'belief' in its being true, then acting upon your accepted belief, (esp moral beliefs) are in fact 'your religion' and that holds true even for atheists since they have a moral code of conduct.

You are trying to use a size 29 word to cover a size 38 ass. According to definitions, it just will not stretch that far.

Yep, that's my feeling, too, regarding this line of 'if you're an atheist you have your own religion of atheism [or similar]'.

But my overall point is that this argument is much, much too big to be dealt with here - well, for me, anyway.

If we were to talk about it in any useful way, though, I think it'd take rules of discussion that aren't generally followed on these forums.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

OK. I'm not greatly concerned by a definition of religion that's dragged through three centuries in order to justify even atheism as a kind of religion. But in contemporary use of English, that wouldn't apply - and contemporary use of English trumps archaic use of English, as far as I'm concerned. I don't buy the idea that the older use of words is somehow more correct or more true than the newer use of them simply by virtue of being older.

Well get over it, because it matters very much when interpreting the Constitution, hence the (all inclusive) application of its use in the 1st amendment (from a late 1700 dictionary). It is precisely that broad understanding of religion that has secured religious protection for Atheists in the U.S. (e.g., here).

K.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Count me as one of those who frequently thinks, "Wouldn't it be good if, now that we humans have managed to survive to the 21st Century, we could finally jettison all religion as a thing of the past?

Well, YMM and probably will, V. It's just not an argument that I can be bothered to broach here.

and who would make the multitudes of moral determinations that we make on a daily basis as a matter of course for self governance?

every thought that is accepted as true correct or fact starts with a personal 'belief' in its being true, then acting upon your accepted belief, (esp moral beliefs) are in fact 'your religion' and that holds true even for atheists since they have a moral code of conduct.

You are trying to use a size 29 word to cover a size 38 ass. According to definitions, it just will not stretch that far.

well most everything can be reduced to its primary elements.

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I'd be interested to hear a couple examples how you are connecting your dots.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
But my overall point is that this argument is much, much too big to be dealt with here - well, for me, anyway.

If we were to talk about it in any useful way, though, I think it'd take rules of discussion that aren't generally followed on these forums.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne


What that says in todays english is:

Natural RELIGION, is what men might know, and be obliged to by mere principles of reason, improved by consideration and experience, without the assistance of divine revelation.


Hence the (all inclusive) application of its use in the 1st amendment (from a late 1700 dictionary)

some atheists have 'HUGE' difficulty with being classified as a religion despite with the exception to being in a coma it is nearly impossible for any thinking being by definition "not" to have a religion as it is as universal as claiming all humans have red blood.

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re·li·gion
rəˈlijən/
noun: religion
1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
1a. a particular system of faith and worship.
1b. a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.

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religion
noun re·li·gion \ri-ˈli-jən\
1. the belief in a god or in a group of gods
2. an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

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ORIGINAL: Kirata
Well get over it, because it matters very much when interpreting the Constitution, hence the (all inclusive) application of its use in the 1st amendment (from a late 1700 dictionary). It is precisely that broad understanding of religion that has secured religious protection for Atheists in the U.S. (e.g., here).

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

I'll use that interpretation about the same time as I start wearing three-cornered hats.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

I'll use that interpretation about the same time as I start wearing three-cornered hats.

I'm surprised you ever stopped wearing them.

I haven't, actually. I always wear one to witch-burnings and the occasional flogging of an Englishman.

K.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Not *my* constitution, old chap.

You don't have a constitution, old chap.

K.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

This ain't bloody cockades for cockneys. We aint the fuckin red cross here, we don't have no state religion you anglican anglos.