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RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/21/2015 10:39:59 PM

sweetieDA

Posts: 129
Joined: 4/3/2015
Status: offline

Whilst I do think that the majority of financial domination is BS, I take issue with you definition of a kink as being something that appears in a catalogue of mental illnesses.

My masochism is not a mental illness. Most of psychology is ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT and I have zero respect for it. It's barely an academia, let alone a science and there is no scientific evidence at all for a great many psychological theories of the mind (let alone a scientific definition for either mental health or mental illness beyond social norms). So to say that 'my kink is better than your kink because quack psychologists decided to stigmatise me and my sexuality in the name of making a buck' just strikes me as the weirdest justification.

The DSM is not be the be-all or end-all of what is kinky. The DSM should stop shaming kinksters as mentally ill. The BDSM community should stop giving credence to publications that are kink-phobic.

And yes, I did know a real life Fin Dom - one of my exes had a human ATM who liked to give him money. It's rare but it happens.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 241

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/21/2015 11:59:49 PM

Moderator3

Posts: 3289
Status: offline

I have removed a number of post, so if yours is missing, you quoted or responded to a removed post.

Hopefully, things will calm down now.

You all were great while our little drama played out. Thank you!

_____________________________

FAST REPLY

(in reply to sweetieDA)

Post #: 242

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 1:03:22 AM

TNDommeK

Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingreality

I've never encountered any sub who had this fetish. Only professional dommes who talked about it (and, of course, were promoting the idea that people should give them money).

A surprising point. I can't recall ever seeing a post by any sub claiming to be a fin domme client in the last couple of years' worth of fin domme threads. It would be interesting to hear directly from the horse's mouth, as it were, how a fin domme client feels about financial domination as a valid fetish.

Two of mine came into Roch's thread and talked, until they were bashed. So there has been accounts of them.

Oh and Resident Sadist...pics or it didn't happen!!

And holy shit I just realized ETs face was photoshopped onto that pic! Bwahahaha!

< Message edited by TNDommeK -- 4/22/2015 1:04:56 AM >

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)

Post #: 243

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 1:20:58 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JuicerSales

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingreality
I've never encountered any sub who had this fetish. Only professional dommes who talked about it (and, of course, were promoting the idea that people should give them money).

Since opening my profile I've had four guys contacting me about my juicers.

Which means that selling juicers is a real fetish

Also a guy who wanted to know if I was into fart slavery. How does someone enslave a fart?

You just cheered up my morning!

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to JuicerSales)

Post #: 244

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 1:25:22 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Tyrant is a good sport so took liberties with his profile pic before asking politely. If not, he has my apologies and we'll get it removed.

Drools!

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 245

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 1:54:27 AM

Awareness

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetieDA

Whilst I do think that the majority of financial domination is BS, I take issue with you definition of a kink as being something that appears in a catalogue of mental illnesses.

My masochism is not a mental illness. Most of psychology is ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT and I have zero respect for it. It's barely an academia, let alone a science and there is no scientific evidence at all for a great many psychological theories of the mind (let alone a scientific definition for either mental health or mental illness beyond social norms). So to say that 'my kink is better than your kink because quack psychologists decided to stigmatise me and my sexuality in the name of making a buck' just strikes me as the weirdest justification.

This is a digression, but a clarification is in order.

The pseudoscience you're referring to is 'psychiatry' - which is the quackery behind the DSM. Psychiatry has absolutely no scientific foundation whatsoever and the DSM is simply a catalog of nonsense put together by a group of quacks.

Psychology is a completely different profession founded in rigorous science, experiment and testing of hypotheses. The turn of the century marked the advent of the positive psychology movement which saw psychology shift away from purely studying the fuckups toward studying the positive outliers so the underlying strengths in their behaviour could be modeled and replicated by others.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to sweetieDA)

Post #: 246

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 4:18:49 AM

MistressRage

Posts: 138
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline

#1 Psychology is not BS. The scientific method is used to conduct research, confounds are ruled out, experiments are replicated, etc. If you had ever sat through a Biopsychology class (psychology based in the hard biological sciences) you would have known this. Were there some weirdos in the past (Freud et. al.)? Yes and I'm glad we don't have to learn much about that quack. Most people base their views on psychology by these early practitioners. They did weird stuff because it was a new science that hadn't had the benefit of being around as long as medicine (early medical doctors did really weird shit too). Our CURRENT theories ARE based on empirical information gathered during experiments using the scientific method with heavy emphasis on ethical treatment of participants. Just like medicine, we learn new things and have to adjust our theories.

#2 Having a fetish (paraphilia) does NOT automatically make it disorder. This is a huge misconception many people have. One must meet very specific criteria before it is considered a disordered behavior. If you were to come in and say that you like to be tied up and whipped, it wouldn't automatically be a disorder. A psychologist would say, "OK, cool. Enjoy!" However, if it were causing you serious problems (according to your own reporting that it is a problem for you) over an extended period of time, that would be a different story. Being a sadist, for example, wouldn't be a disorder, but getting off on doing it to non-consenting people would. Was this always the view? No. Psychology has come a long way, and still has a long way to go (just like medicine).

#3 The DSM is a guide. Not every mental health professional believes that some of what is in there should be there. There are some fierce "discussions" on the topic for sure. Like medicine, as psychs learn more, they adjust things (anybody remember doctors going back and forth on how many eggs were safe to eat each week?).

I find that a lack of knowledge about current psychology leads many people to make incorrect assumptions about what it really is. Adding to this are journalists and media who use click bait headlines, incorrectly report on studies, and don't know the difference between correlation and causation. Then there are the armchair psychologists who MAY have taken a Psych 101 class back in 1989 as part of their Gen Ed requirements in college, meaning their information is VERY outdated. Most don't even have that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetieDA

Whilst I do think that the majority of financial domination is BS, I take issue with you definition of a kink as being something that appears in a catalogue of mental illnesses.

My masochism is not a mental illness. Most of psychology is ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT and I have zero respect for it. It's barely an academia, let alone a science and there is no scientific evidence at all for a great many psychological theories of the mind (let alone a scientific definition for either mental health or mental illness beyond social norms). So to say that 'my kink is better than your kink because quack psychologists decided to stigmatise me and my sexuality in the name of making a buck' just strikes me as the weirdest justification.

The DSM is not be the be-all or end-all of what is kinky. The DSM should stop shaming kinksters as mentally ill. The BDSM community should stop giving credence to publications that are kink-phobic.

And yes, I did know a real life Fin Dom - one of my exes had a human ATM who liked to give him money. It's rare but it happens.

< Message edited by MistressRage -- 4/22/2015 4:21:17 AM >

(in reply to sweetieDA)

Post #: 247

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 4:30:05 AM

tiggerspoohbear

Posts: 19141
Joined: 6/27/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

I have 6 already.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tiggerspoohbear

Pictures please? With a cherry on top?

Dearest Tiggerpooh . . . a pic just for you. What's the sense of Tyrant having 6 outfits if he can't show one of them off? LOL, you gotta' love photoshop don't ya'?

I used to go to the Rocky Horror midnight madness theater show in the 70s, dressed, squirt guns, bag of rice and a girl on my leash.

Tyrant is a good sport so took liberties with his profile pic before asking politely. If not, he has my apologies and we'll get it removed.

RS, thank you from the bottom of my heart. Photo shop is indeed great and Tyrant makes a great Dr Frankenfurter.

I used to to go to the midnight showings of the movie with a group of friends. We didn't dress up but we knew the lines and loved the live show done up by the other film goers,

_____________________________

"RABBIT IS GOOD, RABBIT IS WISE".

"I'm a baaa-aaad pussycat".

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 248

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 5:36:56 AM

ExiledTyrant

Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Holy mother of god.

www.eyebleach.com

Thats right, worship me, bitches... and brotches!!!

Jus demanden

P.S. Brotches is the masculine of bitches, ainit?

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to Gauge)

Post #: 249

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 7:41:31 AM

TNDommeK

Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline

I think so...

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 250

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 7:46:16 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Holy mother of god.

www.eyebleach.com

Thats right, worship me, bitches... and brotches!!!

Jus demanden

P.S. Brotches is the masculine of bitches, ainit?

Just...shakes...head.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 251

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 9:48:55 AM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

just today alone, I have had eight slaves come to my mailbox and beg to give me money...For me to ruin them. That's not my style so hey we're declined. But the point still strands. There ARE males out there looking for this fetish.

So people here are saying they don't believe that these requests come through. Or they are exaggerated.

Femdoms say they do get them -- random guys begging to be "wallet raped" or whatever.

Honestly, I think there's a really obvious answer here:

* Men who wanted to be financially exploited exist. But they are VERY RARE. And trust me, they get their money's worth in the way they dictate the process and they are VERY keen on what they are giving up and getting in return. It's a complicated relationships and only savvy "findoms" can make that work.

* Men who flood the inboxes of women begging to be used, claiming to be an ATM, wanting to be a "pay pig" are men who are manipulating women into getting into an email exchange with them, but they have NO intention of following through. They have realized THIS is a way to get SOME femdoms to respond. Mostly, these fly by night "pay princesses" that popped up. These women are not savvy and they get sucked right in and THEY get used. Often we see threads here, "Why are all these so called subs fakes! They promise to obey but they do not!" and we realize its a pay princess. I can bet you these guys are getting into 10, 15 or more email exchanges "defining" how they will be "wallet raped" and they are jerking off the entire time as the scenarios are negotiated, but not a dime is exchanged. Who is using whom? Let them both waste each other's time!

* A savvy findomme can recognize a time waster. She is too busy. They have ways to filter. I am not sure what they are, but they figure it out.

* If a horny sub emails 15 women and promises to be a pay pig and says he wants to be wallet raped, he probably can get a couple ladies on the hook who are not savvy. He can then ask to dictate the rules. What will you make me do? How much will I be humiliated? Etc., etc. Of course he is getting off on the attention. And then many times he gets off on her lambasting him and calling him a loser and a flake for not following through - the rejection itself is a turn on. For these guys, it's a win-win. No money spent, lots of attention, and a HUGE pool of women to approach.

Let the "market" sort itself out. Good findommes will connect with men who seek legitimate financial manipulation as PART of their humiliation fetish, and good findommes know how to create the scenario that is more complex than "Send me $100 you loser."

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Post #: 252

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 11:20:30 AM

seekingreality

Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

* Men who flood the inboxes of women begging to be used, claiming to be an ATM, wanting to be a "pay pig" are men who are manipulating women into getting into an email exchange with them, but they have NO intention of following through. They have realized THIS is a way to get SOME femdoms to respond. Mostly, these fly by night "pay princesses" that popped up. These women are not savvy and they get sucked right in and THEY get used. Often we see threads here, "Why are all these so called subs fakes! They promise to obey but they do not!" and we realize its a pay princess. I can bet you these guys are getting into 10, 15 or more email exchanges "defining" how they will be "wallet raped" and they are jerking off the entire time as the scenarios are negotiated, but not a dime is exchanged. Who is using whom? Let them both waste each other's time!

Akasha

To me this is simply the cost of doing business. If you are a findomme, it's a business, and what you're talking about is simply part of the sales cycle.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 253

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 11:47:45 AM

MissWilt

Posts: 2
Joined: 2/16/2015
Status: offline

Popping back in.

I made a post a while back (page 9 or so I think). I am a Findomme, but in the true sense of the term which is financial control. Shocker- No, I don't take the money from subs/slaves. I don't demand tributes. And I don't expect them to give me money. Controlling their finances is what gets me hot and bothered. (Note- no, they do not give me their account info. But, they are required to send regular screen captures of their transactions. Just enough to show the date, where, and how much was spent.)

Findom has been REALLY diluted by all the of money grubbing "cash princesses" who just claim to be Findoms to make a quick buck. And it pisses me off because they are what gives real Findommes a bad light.

(in reply to seekingreality)

Post #: 254

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 12:14:10 PM

TNDommeK

Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

just today alone, I have had eight slaves come to my mailbox and beg to give me money...For me to ruin them. That's not my style so hey we're declined. But the point still strands. There ARE males out there looking for this fetish.

So people here are saying they don't believe that these requests come through. Or they are exaggerated.

Femdoms say they do get them -- random guys begging to be "wallet raped" or whatever.

Honestly, I think there's a really obvious answer here:

* Men who wanted to be financially exploited exist. But they are VERY RARE. And trust me, they get their money's worth in the way they dictate the process and they are VERY keen on what they are giving up and getting in return. It's a complicated relationships and only savvy "findoms" can make that work.

* Men who flood the inboxes of women begging to be used, claiming to be an ATM, wanting to be a "pay pig" are men who are manipulating women into getting into an email exchange with them, but they have NO intention of following through. They have realized THIS is a way to get SOME femdoms to respond. Mostly, these fly by night "pay princesses" that popped up. These women are not savvy and they get sucked right in and THEY get used. Often we see threads here, "Why are all these so called subs fakes! They promise to obey but they do not!" and we realize its a pay princess. I can bet you these guys are getting into 10, 15 or more email exchanges "defining" how they will be "wallet raped" and they are jerking off the entire time as the scenarios are negotiated, but not a dime is exchanged. Who is using whom? Let them both waste each other's time!

* A savvy findomme can recognize a time waster. She is too busy. They have ways to filter. I am not sure what they are, but they figure it out.

* If a horny sub emails 15 women and promises to be a pay pig and says he wants to be wallet raped, he probably can get a couple ladies on the hook who are not savvy. He can then ask to dictate the rules. What will you make me do? How much will I be humiliated? Etc., etc. Of course he is getting off on the attention. And then many times he gets off on her lambasting him and calling him a loser and a flake for not following through - the rejection itself is a turn on. For these guys, it's a win-win. No money spent, lots of attention, and a HUGE pool of women to approach.

Let the "market" sort itself out. Good findommes will connect with men who seek legitimate financial manipulation as PART of their humiliation fetish, and good findommes know how to create the scenario that is more complex than "Send me $100 you loser."

Akasha

Were it not for the notion that some would write to and pester/bash these subs, I would screen shot my inbox.
And you're exactly correct on the sorting out.

_____________________________

Goddess of Duck Lips and Luxurious Hair
The working Fin Domme
Professional con artist, swindler, trixster, extortionist

Our snark-nado needs more cowbell

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 255

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 3:01:13 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingreality

I saw a fin-domme group on fetlife, and it seemed like the dommes outnumbered the subs by a 10-1 margin, which is highly unusual, so I suspect it's pretty uncommon.

I've no doubt. It must look like a very easy way to make a nice little wedge. The thought's even crossed *my* mind to 'become an internet-only findomme', on occasion. I mean - hey - I should know what makes a sub male tick, right?

I've some wardrobe suggestions, peon.

*Chortle*.

Well, no-one could doubt that he'd easily pass as a femdom - and one with exquisite taste and sophistication, too. However, I could not emulate him. My knees just wouldn't pass muster. I do *not* have dainty knees and this failing is only partially compensated for by my superbly honed buttocks, I'm afraid. :-(

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)

Post #: 256

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 3:16:23 PM

seekingreality

Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I've no doubt. It must look like a very easy way to make a nice little wedge. The thought's even crossed *my* mind to 'become an internet-only findomme', on occasion. I mean - hey - I should know what makes a sub male tick, right?

I've met some professional dommes in social settings, and they tend to make a modest living from it. I think "internet-only findomme" would be a low hourly wage job, given all the time you have to spend marketing and going through wacker responses. There might be some who luck into a high paying client, but I think that's a tiny minority.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 257

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/22/2015 3:34:54 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

Two of mine came into Roch's thread and talked, until they were bashed. So there has been accounts of them.

I've struck up a friendship with another submale, over the past year or so, who's wired entirely differently to me. Actually, in the context of submales, he and I are probably polar opposites.

For him, things are very, very simple. He likes to get beaten to merry hell by a woman - it's straightforward and he's entirely happy with who he is and what he likes. A 'Mistress' - or 'Dommay' - as he calls her, must act right, look right and dress right. He doesn't expect nor require to have sex with her. He doesn't hope for a relationship with her beyond such beatings, either. And, yes, he completely expects to pay for what he wants and doesn't begrudge a woman who demands such payment.

He doesn't post on any forums, ever. He used to, but got roasted so many times that he stopped. 'Everyone', he said, 'seemed to think I'm lacking because my life and my kink was so simple. But I tried complicated; it never worked for me'.

I think there are submales out there who just *are* wired this way. A part of what they are - at their best - is an understanding and acceptance that they're *perverted* and see no compelling reason why they should be otherwise - because they enjoy what they are and what they're into. So fuck everything else ....

My friend would be able to relate to Akasha's comments here about findommes and their 'clients' (want of a better word). He'd be entirely happy with her view that not every woman - not every femdom, even - could play her part in his fantasy (and he'd make no bones that it *is* his fantasy, and not necessarily hers).

I read threads like this and, so often these days, end up thinking: Who cares? People are screwy. *We*, here, are screwy. This is because we're humans, and humans do a zillion and one things that *make* *no* *sense*. But it doesn't matter because we're the most successful species on this planet and in the known universe. Perhaps, as such, the whole point is precisely that, having reached this exalted position, we play, and play, and play - like no other species has ever been able to do.

End of ramble. ;-)

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to TNDommeK)

Post #: 258

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/27/2015 12:19:35 AM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Holy mother of god.

www.eyebleach.com

If that is what the "Holy mother of god" looks like . . . no wonder I had an alt sexual identity in my teens and am mixed up about FinDommes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Drools!

He did make for a nice movie poster didn't he?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tiggerspoohbear
RS, thank you from the bottom of my heart. Photo shop is indeed great and Tyrant makes a great Dr Frankenfurter.

I used to to go to the midnight showings of the movie with a group of friends. We didn't dress up but we knew the lines and loved the live show done up by the other film goers,

I was living in Grosse Pointe when that film came out and we had a big circle of friends that used go together. Some of them dressed and acted out the parts in the isles of the theater. The rest of us did the audience responses like "slut... asshole... what's your favorite color" and threw rice, shot squirt guns while holding newspapers over our heads.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
Thats right, worship me, bitches... and brotches!!!

Jus demanden

P.S. Brotches is the masculine of bitches, ainit?

At least you aren't demanding "Broaches" as financial tribute.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Just...shakes...head.

I feel your pain and sometimes wonder if I have a masochistic streak . . . the idea popped into my head and I just went a ahead and did it, no matter how painful it was.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to Gauge)

Post #: 259

RE: -=Money Pigs/FinDomery - real fetish or fake? (soa... - 4/27/2015 4:30:32 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissWilt

Popping back in.

I made a post a while back (page 9 or so I think). I am a Findomme, but in the true sense of the term which is financial control. Shocker- No, I don't take the money from subs/slaves. I don't demand tributes. And I don't expect them to give me money. Controlling their finances is what gets me hot and bothered. (Note- no, they do not give me their account info. But, they are required to send regular screen captures of their transactions. Just enough to show the date, where, and how much was spent.)

Findom has been REALLY diluted by all the of money grubbing "cash princesses" who just claim to be Findoms to make a quick buck. And it pisses me off because they are what gives real Findommes a bad light.

I am a little confused. You say you don't take money but in your profile you say "Subs/slaves must be cash verified. If you're not when we begin conversing, you are required to be so before I will claim ownership of you."

so how do you cash verify them if you don't take their money and do they get to actually meet you before this happens?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to MissWilt)

Post #: 260

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