quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA
Your comments about oil are common leftist myth yes. Just as they said Bush was trading our blood for oil in Iraq. As my pun was meant to show the BS of that, I'd hoped you'd either link proof of your statement or admit it was similar BS.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Ive posted this enough times you should have it memorized by now

Even these two clowns had to admit that we did great things for Iraq

(Until their policies took over)

Barack Obama:

quote:

'We're Leaving Behind a Sovereign, Stable and Self-Reliant Iraq'

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/14/remarks-president-and-first-lady-end-war-iraq

Joe Biden:

quote:


“I am very optimistic about Iraq. I think it’s gonna be one of the great achievements of this administration. You’re gonna see 90,000 American troops come marchin’ home by the end of the summer. You’re gonna see a stable government in Iraq that is actually movin’ toward a representative government. I’ve been there 17 times now. I go about every two months, three months. I know every one of the major players in all the segments of that society. It’s impressed me. I’ve been impressed, how they have been deciding to use the political process, rather than guns, to settle their differences.”

Then Joe rode off on a unicorn down a road made of rainbows.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/12/watch-joe-biden-call-iraq-one-of-the-great-achievements-of-this-administration/

Iraq was a complete fucking disaster before Obama was even put in office. That it still is, is testimony to the success of the neocons from the beginning...Arabs/Muslim killing Arabs/Muslim and getting Obama, to try and tell the world...is to blame for their mess.

Even as we type, the right denigrates Obama for the nuke deal with Iran while the MIC licks their for-profit lips seeing a new cold war in the middle east. War, continues to be a racket...the gift that keeps on giving.

Connect the dots kinkroids. Presidents have little to do with the real direction of this country. They all do what they need to do...to stay alive.

No, as I have proven, Barack Obama and Joe Biden both admitted that when they took over, Iraq was shaping up to be a really great success.

Too bad they fucked the pooch as they say, let it go to hell after all the sacrifice and money that was invested. Really a shame

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Ive posted this enough times you should have it memorized by now

Even these two clowns had to admit that we did great things for Iraq

(Until their policies took over)

Barack Obama:

quote:

'We're Leaving Behind a Sovereign, Stable and Self-Reliant Iraq'

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/14/remarks-president-and-first-lady-end-war-iraq

Joe Biden:

quote:


“I am very optimistic about Iraq. I think it’s gonna be one of the great achievements of this administration. You’re gonna see 90,000 American troops come marchin’ home by the end of the summer. You’re gonna see a stable government in Iraq that is actually movin’ toward a representative government. I’ve been there 17 times now. I go about every two months, three months. I know every one of the major players in all the segments of that society. It’s impressed me. I’ve been impressed, how they have been deciding to use the political process, rather than guns, to settle their differences.”

Then Joe rode off on a unicorn down a road made of rainbows.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/12/watch-joe-biden-call-iraq-one-of-the-great-achievements-of-this-administration/

Iraq was a complete fucking disaster before Obama was even put in office. That it still is, is testimony to the success of the neocons from the beginning...Arabs/Muslim killing Arabs/Muslim and getting Obama, to try and tell the world...is to blame for their mess.

Even as we type, the right denigrates Obama for the nuke deal with Iran while the MIC licks their for-profit lips seeing a new cold war in the middle east. War, continues to be a racket...the gift that keeps on giving.

Connect the dots kinkroids. Presidents have little to do with the real direction of this country. They all do what they need to do...to stay alive.

No, as I have proven, Barack Obama and Joe Biden both admitted that when they took over, Iraq was shaping up to be a really great success.

Too bad they fucked the pooch as they say, let it go to hell after all the sacrifice and money that was invested. Really a shame

Both may have admitted. But they were clearly dead wrong in doing so. Iraq was a disaster when they took over, and co tinued to be in 2010-2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Ive posted this enough times you should have it memorized by now

Even these two clowns had to admit that we did great things for Iraq

(Until their policies took over)

Barack Obama:

quote:

'We're Leaving Behind a Sovereign, Stable and Self-Reliant Iraq'

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/12/14/remarks-president-and-first-lady-end-war-iraq

Joe Biden:

quote:


“I am very optimistic about Iraq. I think it’s gonna be one of the great achievements of this administration. You’re gonna see 90,000 American troops come marchin’ home by the end of the summer. You’re gonna see a stable government in Iraq that is actually movin’ toward a representative government. I’ve been there 17 times now. I go about every two months, three months. I know every one of the major players in all the segments of that society. It’s impressed me. I’ve been impressed, how they have been deciding to use the political process, rather than guns, to settle their differences.”

Then Joe rode off on a unicorn down a road made of rainbows.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/12/watch-joe-biden-call-iraq-one-of-the-great-achievements-of-this-administration/

Iraq was a complete fucking disaster before Obama was even put in office. That it still is, is testimony to the success of the neocons from the beginning...Arabs/Muslim killing Arabs/Muslim and getting Obama, to try and tell the world...is to blame for their mess.

Even as we type, the right denigrates Obama for the nuke deal with Iran while the MIC licks their for-profit lips seeing a new cold war in the middle east. War, continues to be a racket...the gift that keeps on giving.

Connect the dots kinkroids. Presidents have little to do with the real direction of this country. They all do what they need to do...to stay alive.

No, as I have proven, Barack Obama and Joe Biden both admitted that when they took over, Iraq was shaping up to be a really great success.

Too bad they fucked the pooch as they say, let it go to hell after all the sacrifice and money that was invested. Really a shame

Both may have admitted. But they were clearly dead wrong in doing so. Iraq was a disaster when they took over, and co tinued to be in 2010-2011

They weren't dead wrong. They were trying to show how much smarter they were than GW. It fucked them in the ass and still it's Bush's fault.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

And I might add, I listened to a former Army general two days ago. He said that we did train Iraqis troops and while they were not to our standards, they were competent for the region and could hold the stability. But, once the Americans pulled out, Maliki began to see them as a threat and got ride of the leadership so the troops no longer could fight. The instability stemmed from that. So, we're back to whether or not a strong man will run the place or chaos. What I'm hearing you say is that you belive Saddam should have been left as a strong man to cruelly control the minorities...or actually, the majorities. And, that Obama and Joe are wise enough to know that, lied to the American people about stability, pulled out, and left dog to eat dog until a strong man ruthlessly took control.

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ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

And I might add, I listened to a former Army general two days ago. He said that we did train Iraqis troops and while they were not to our standards, they were competent for the region and could hold the stability. But, once the Americans pulled out, Maliki began to see them as a threat and got ride of the leadership so the troops no longer could fight. The instability stemmed from that. So, we're back to whether or not a strong man will run the place or chaos. What I'm hearing you say is that you belive Saddam should have been left as a strong man to cruelly control the minorities...or actually, the majorities. And, that Obama and Joe are wise enough to know that, lied to the American people about stability, pulled out, and left dog to eat dog until a strong man ruthlessly took control.

Think for a minute how ridiculous that sounds.

When American troops pulled out, Maliki fired his own army's leadership because he didn't trust them. And, your logic, is that is the CAUSE of the instability, and not the SYMPTOM?

Really?

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

And I might add, I listened to a former Army general two days ago. He said that we did train Iraqis troops and while they were not to our standards, they were competent for the region and could hold the stability. But, once the Americans pulled out, Maliki began to see them as a threat and got ride of the leadership so the troops no longer could fight. The instability stemmed from that. So, we're back to whether or not a strong man will run the place or chaos. What I'm hearing you say is that you belive Saddam should have been left as a strong man to cruelly control the minorities...or actually, the majorities. And, that Obama and Joe are wise enough to know that, lied to the American people about stability, pulled out, and left dog to eat dog until a strong man ruthlessly took control.

Think for a minute how ridiculous that sounds.

When American troops pulled out, Maliki fired his own army's leadership because he didn't trust them. And, your logic, is that is the CAUSE of the instability, and not the SYMPTOM?

Really?

No you think about how ridicules your thinking is. Whatever the situation was, Obama and Biden says it was the highlight of their administration, Obama, in order to make sure Bush got all the blame, left no American presence in Iraq. Had some presence been left, what ever you think of that presence, Iraq would still have a decent standing army that would have fought and kept ISIS out ofbiraq and in Syria.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

And I might add, I listened to a former Army general two days ago. He said that we did train Iraqis troops and while they were not to our standards, they were competent for the region and could hold the stability. But, once the Americans pulled out, Maliki began to see them as a threat and got ride of the leadership so the troops no longer could fight. The instability stemmed from that. So, we're back to whether or not a strong man will run the place or chaos. What I'm hearing you say is that you belive Saddam should have been left as a strong man to cruelly control the minorities...or actually, the majorities. And, that Obama and Joe are wise enough to know that, lied to the American people about stability, pulled out, and left dog to eat dog until a strong man ruthlessly took control.

Think for a minute how ridiculous that sounds.

When American troops pulled out, Maliki fired his own army's leadership because he didn't trust them. And, your logic, is that is the CAUSE of the instability, and not the SYMPTOM?

Really?

No you think about how ridicules your thinking is. Whatever the situation was, Obama and Biden says it was the highlight of their administration, Obama, in order to make sure Bush got all the blame, left no American presence in Iraq. Had some presence been left, what ever you think of that presence, Iraq would still have a decent standing army that would have fought and kept ISIS out ofbiraq and in Syria.

Pure nonsense. And even if it were true, it proves nothing. For how long? What is the exit strategy?. It just keeps proving my point.

One big clusterf**k

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

And I might add, I listened to a former Army general two days ago. He said that we did train Iraqis troops and while they were not to our standards, they were competent for the region and could hold the stability. But, once the Americans pulled out, Maliki began to see them as a threat and got ride of the leadership so the troops no longer could fight. The instability stemmed from that. So, we're back to whether or not a strong man will run the place or chaos. What I'm hearing you say is that you belive Saddam should have been left as a strong man to cruelly control the minorities...or actually, the majorities. And, that Obama and Joe are wise enough to know that, lied to the American people about stability, pulled out, and left dog to eat dog until a strong man ruthlessly took control.

Think for a minute how ridiculous that sounds.

When American troops pulled out, Maliki fired his own army's leadership because he didn't trust them. And, your logic, is that is the CAUSE of the instability, and not the SYMPTOM?

Really?

No you think about how ridicules your thinking is. Whatever the situation was, Obama and Biden says it was the highlight of their administration, Obama, in order to make sure Bush got all the blame, left no American presence in Iraq. Had some presence been left, what ever you think of that presence, Iraq would still have a decent standing army that would have fought and kept ISIS out ofbiraq and in Syria.

Pure nonsense. And even if it were true, it proves nothing. For how long? What is the exit strategy?. It just keeps proving my point.

One big clusterf**k

Pure nonsense? Explain that. I think a four star general would have some validity.

Regardless of the clusterfuck as you say. It was the express foreign policy of this administration, no matter what they inherited, to leave the mess that's there now rather than keep three to five thousands troops there. While they were doing that they were waving their progressive flag, telling people it was a great thing and that they were so much smarter and prettier than Bush. It's not my job to establish an exit strategy. That was Obama's job and this is what he picked to do.

Frankly, my guess, and only a guess from observation of Obama, is that he was betting on the come that things wouldn't fall apart until he was out of office and then he could blame that on Hillary...or whoever is the next president.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

And I might add, I listened to a former Army general two days ago. He said that we did train Iraqis troops and while they were not to our standards, they were competent for the region and could hold the stability. But, once the Americans pulled out, Maliki began to see them as a threat and got ride of the leadership so the troops no longer could fight. The instability stemmed from that. So, we're back to whether or not a strong man will run the place or chaos. What I'm hearing you say is that you belive Saddam should have been left as a strong man to cruelly control the minorities...or actually, the majorities. And, that Obama and Joe are wise enough to know that, lied to the American people about stability, pulled out, and left dog to eat dog until a strong man ruthlessly took control.

Think for a minute how ridiculous that sounds.

When American troops pulled out, Maliki fired his own army's leadership because he didn't trust them. And, your logic, is that is the CAUSE of the instability, and not the SYMPTOM?

Really?

No you think about how ridicules your thinking is. Whatever the situation was, Obama and Biden says it was the highlight of their administration, Obama, in order to make sure Bush got all the blame, left no American presence in Iraq. Had some presence been left, what ever you think of that presence, Iraq would still have a decent standing army that would have fought and kept ISIS out ofbiraq and in Syria.

Pure nonsense. And even if it were true, it proves nothing. For how long? What is the exit strategy?. It just keeps proving my point.

One big clusterf**k

Pure nonsense? Explain that. I think a four star general would have some validity.

Regardless of the clusterfuck as you say. It was the express foreign policy of this administration, no matter what they inherited, to leave the mess that's there now rather than keep three to five thousands troops there. While they were doing that they were waving their progressive flag, telling people it was a great thing and that they were so much smarter and prettier than Bush. It's not my job to establish an exit strategy. That was Obama's job and this is what he picked to do.

Frankly, my guess, and only a guess from observation of Obama, is that he was betting on the come that things wouldn't fall apart until he was out of office and then he could blame that on Hillary...or whoever is the next president.

1) The Iraqi army is scared sh*tless of iSIS (with or w/o ledership)
2) The idea of a crack sunni force defnding (against devout sunnis BTW!!! (Devout, albeit genocidal maniacs)) a shia-led Iraqi government (led by a shia that tthey do NOT trust, and does NOT trust them) is frankly, silly. For any oranization to succeed 9let alone a fighting force in battle!), trust is foundational. Leadership or not, the armed forces were completely dysfunctional. (Perhaps not completely inept, as your alleged 4-start General pal implies(. To assert that this force wold not only defeat ISIS in Iraq, but execute a successful campaign in Syria as well, is beyond ridiculous. Frankly, I do not believe a 4-star General would say that.

My point is, even IF an American presence wwould have slowed ISIS, without an exit strategy (which Obama realized there was none), why would Obama put our troops in harms way to slightly delay the inevitable?

Regarding your guess on what Obama was betting on, you just may be right. It was a clusterf**k, with NO good options. He definitely chose the best of some very crappy options. He and Biden had to put a positive face on the pile of sh*t they inherited, so they claimed victory, and went home. (Perhaps hoping that he could hand this pile of sh*t to the next President.)


I can hear you now... Still blaming Bush??? You bet1 We are all paying the price for his blunders, and will continue for years to come.

Sorry for the frequent references to excrement... I am not sure where that came from :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Sorry for the frequent references to excrement... I am not sure where that came from :)