RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed?

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RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 3:12:45 PM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Not to mention giving innocent victims of the original tragedy a chance to add to their distress....fucking brilliant

How do you figure? Getting to punch the ticket of the POS who killed my brother would not add in any possible way, the distress I feel over his loss.

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(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 21

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 3:14:25 PM

LadyArakney

Posts: 44
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline

The cost of the death penalty case is there either way. I was referring to his incarceration period which from what I read averages about $90k per year.

As for your snarky remarks, I'll simply ignore them and consider the source's inability to have respect for those wanting to have a civil post regarding their own personal views.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 22

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 3:24:02 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Not to mention giving innocent victims of the original tragedy a chance to add to their distress....fucking brilliant

How do you figure? Getting to punch the ticket of the POS who killed my brother would not add in any possible way, the distress I feel over his loss.

'The family insist that they do not want the memories of Marathon Monday 2013 to be defined by Tsarnaev’s actions or beliefs, rather by “the resiliency of the human spirit”. They argue that if a death sentence was handed down, years of appeals would cause anguish for their children.

“As long as the defendant is in the spotlight,” they wrote, “we have no choice but to live a story told on his terms, not ours. The minute the defendant fades from our newspapers and TV screens is the minute we begin the process of rebuilding our lives and our family.”'

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/17/boston-bombing-victim-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-death-penalty

This is what one family feels.

Myself, I've no idea at all how I'd feel if one of my own family members were to be murdered.

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(in reply to stef)

Post #: 23

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 3:43:38 PM

bounty44

Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Do some research,figure out the cost to the state of a death penalty case....than figure out what it costs to house and feed(really really cheap food) a prisoner.
Get back here and submit a new post wherein you realize it's cheaper to keep him in jail without the possibility of parole than it is executing him.

if what you are suggesting is indeed true, it can only be true, as aylee pointed out, because of the interminable way in which death penalty cases are handled. if he was found guilty, sentenced to death, and then executed two days later, that would not be the case.

one suggestion would be to change the process associated with capital cases.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 4/17/2015 3:45:03 PM >

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 24

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 4:41:26 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

I believe this is a bullshit argument...not backed with facts... It is not only food but medical care and security clothing pay etc... Not only that but the possibility of further violence against other prisoners or security officers is very real.... Remember he is young and could have 70 or more years before he kicks off.

I've already stated my position but the only argument that carries weight is the moral one not financial. As to the moral question neither side can claim the high ground as far as I'm concerned.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to bounty44)

Post #: 25

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 4:48:38 PM

sloguy02246

Posts: 534
Joined: 11/5/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Not to mention giving innocent victims of the original tragedy a chance to add to their distress....fucking brilliant

How do you figure? Getting to punch the ticket of the POS who killed my brother would not add in any possible way, the distress I feel over his loss.

'The family insist that they do not want the memories of Marathon Monday 2013 to be defined by Tsarnaev’s actions or beliefs, rather by “the resiliency of the human spirit”. They argue that if a death sentence was handed down, years of appeals would cause anguish for their children.

“As long as the defendant is in the spotlight,” they wrote, “we have no choice but to live a story told on his terms, not ours. The minute the defendant fades from our newspapers and TV screens is the minute we begin the process of rebuilding our lives and our family.”'

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/17/boston-bombing-victim-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-death-penalty

This is what one family feels.

Myself, I've no idea at all how I'd feel if one of my own family members were to be murdered.

I have to agree with the family's statement about getting the defendant out of the spotlight.

This brought to mind a similar event from almost 50 years ago.
Remember Sirhan Sirhan?
He's 71, still in prison for that murder, and I would guess virtually no one under 40 knows who he is unless they throw his name into a search engine.
More importantly, time has proven that his actions did not come to define the life and legacy of his victim.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 26

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 5:15:31 PM

JVoV

Posts: 3664
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

That's not how the American justice system works.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. I didn't know that.

Evidence of this can be found:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I think ...

You're a decent enough guy but where in the blue fuck did I say that letting families have the final say IS how the system works? Why must you erect strawmen in order to show someone that they're wrong (when they aren't, just by nature of your strawman)?

Knock it off, already, please.

Considering this is a thread about feelings, as opposed to facts, there is no right or wrong. No need for you to feel slighted, or invalidated. There was no attack in my post, though with what I see in many threads here, I do understand your reaction. But that's not me.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 27

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 6:45:43 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyArakney

The cost of the death penalty case is there either way. I was referring to his incarceration period which from what I read averages about $90k per year.

As for your snarky remarks, I'll simply ignore them and consider the source's inability to have respect for those wanting to have a civil post regarding their own personal views.

There was no undue amount of snark considering just how uninformed your post was.
Here's how it works....if he get's the death penalty the appeal process start's....a process that often goes all the way to the supreme court.
Add all of the lawyers fees ,public defenders do not get assigned by the state to death penalty cases...high powered expensive lawyers handle death penalty appeals.
This process can last more than ten years.
All of that time he is housed in a special death row facility...where the cost of incarceration ,per prisoner,is astronomical.
Do the work,get yourself informed enough to have an intelligent civil conversation than come back and we can see where we are

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to LadyArakney)

Post #: 28

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 8:11:31 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Do some research,figure out the cost to the state of a death penalty case....than figure out what it costs to house and feed(really really cheap food) a prisoner.
Get back here and submit a new post wherein you realize it's cheaper to keep him in jail without the possibility of parole than it is executing him.

if what you are suggesting is indeed true, it can only be true, as aylee pointed out, because of the interminable way in which death penalty cases are handled. if he was found guilty, sentenced to death, and then executed two days later, that would not be the case.

one suggestion would be to change the process associated with capital cases.

So you are in favor of a "no appeals" style of justice.
Man ,it always amazes me how quickly conservatives shred the Constitution when it suits their purposes

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to bounty44)

Post #: 29

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 8:23:10 PM

bounty44

Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline

mike your presumption is baffling. you don't know my position on the death penalty in general, or in this case in particular. I can see how in some cases what people say can count as a position they are advocating, but that was not strictly the case here.

yes I believe in appeals.

but that said, there is no reason i am aware of why appeals have to take months into years into many years either.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 30

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 8:25:27 PM

bounty44

Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I believe this is a bullshit argument...not backed with facts... It is not only food but medical care and security clothing pay etc... Not only that but the possibility of further violence against other prisoners or security officers is very real.... Remember he is young and could have 70 or more years before he kicks off.

I've already stated my position but the only argument that carries weight is the moral one not financial. As to the moral question neither side can claim the high ground as far as I'm concerned.

Butch

am not sure who you were addressing there, me or mike.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 31

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 8:25:28 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

mike your presumption is baffling. you don't know my position on the death penalty in general, or in this case in particular. I can see how in some cases what people say can count as a position they are advocating, but that was not strictly the case here.

yes I believe in appeals.

but that said, there is no reason i am aware of why appeals have to take months into years into many years either.

Bullshit,what kind of appeals system can be wrapped up in time for your two day later execution ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to bounty44)

Post #: 32

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 8:28:37 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

I think Butch was referring to my argument that death penalty cases cost a fortune and that in actuality life w/o possibility of parole is cheaper .

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 33

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 8:30:33 PM

bounty44

Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline

um, I know we can miss things when we read, so i'll put it again: "...you don't know my position on the death penalty in general, or in this case in particular. I can see how in some cases what people say can count as a position they are advocating, I can see how in some cases what people say can count as a position they are advocating, but that was not strictly the case here.
"

that was in reference to the "2 days and execute" him sentence.

and then I said I believe in appeals. I know they cant be done in 2 days for goodness sake.

and I further pointed out, they needn't take years either.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 34

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 8:35:25 PM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

I'm thinking that none of you saying LOWP and isolation for decades is fitting, have any real idea of what true isolation does to the human brain. Decades. It literally drives people insane.

It really bothers me that we (USA) purports to be a modern and civilized country, yet our prisoners are treated inhumanely. I don't care what he did, permanent isolation is not a solution. I will never believe that prisoners deserve intentional damage.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to bounty44)

Post #: 35

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 8:41:48 PM

bounty44

Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline

Camille, I think about stuff like that frequently...and I don't disagree with you that lack of human contact (like he would have) is a horrific thing for most people. I don't envy the people in the criminal justice system making these decisions...

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 4/17/2015 8:42:40 PM >

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 36

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/17/2015 8:46:39 PM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

Almost no one here knows anything of my background bounty, despite my being here for years lol.

I've been in isolation. I was in isolation for 53 days, that was in 1983 and to this very day I have residual issues. Not just from being cut off from humanity for that length of time but the whole environment that I was in. Which if anyone is actually curious about, I will share.

It gives me a unique perspective on things sometimes, like topics such as this one. I wasn't a whole lot younger than Tsarnaev is right now and it was less than two full months. Death truly is more merciful than a life sentence of isolation and I am staunchly against the death penalty.

No, I don't know what should be done with people like this guy. I don't have the answer and yeah it is easy for me to say what shouldn't be done but we need to do something with our entire prison system.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to bounty44)

Post #: 37

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/18/2015 7:05:31 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

I have always advocated strict rules governing capital punishment consistent in all sates...much stricter than exists today. To me there are many cases, like this, where there is absolutely no doubt of the guilt. It would include multiple witnesses, caught in the act, irrefutable forensic evidence as examples. In this type of case there would be no need for multiple appeals except in the case of improper procedures. One appeal withing a two year period would be sufficient and then the punishment carried out.

There is no need to spend tax payer money or to torture the prisoner with false hope.

I am not advocating capital punishment in this case, but it is perfectly justified.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to bounty44)

Post #: 38

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/18/2015 10:36:34 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Not to mention giving innocent victims of the original tragedy a chance to add to their distress....fucking brilliant

How do you figure? Getting to punch the ticket of the POS who killed my brother would not add in any possible way, the distress I feel over his loss.

I saw this yesterday,I was unsure how to answer you....since you were talking about an obviously personal position I didn't want to engage you and inflame any residual anger.
Opening my paper today though the reply jumped right out of me.
Read the opinions of the father of the youngest victim.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/18/us/martin-richard-boston-marathon-bombing.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

While the father cautioned that he wasn't making any statement on the death penalty in it's entirety this does speak to the fact that all survivors are not as in tune with personally being the hand of vengeance that you yourself spoke of(in no way should that be taken to minimize or trivialize your own feelings...you do have my condolences)

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 39

RE: Should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be executed? - 4/18/2015 10:39:53 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Do some research,figure out the cost to the state of a death penalty case....than figure out what it costs to house and feed(really really cheap food) a prisoner.
Get back here and submit a new post wherein you realize it's cheaper to keep him in jail without the possibility of parole than it is executing him.

if what you are suggesting is indeed true, it can only be true, as aylee pointed out, because of the interminable way in which death penalty cases are handled. if he was found guilty, sentenced to death, and then executed two days later, that would not be the case.

one suggestion would be to change the process associated with capital cases.

Clearly that is advocating,or discussing(whatever) a situation that doesn't allow for meaningful appeals to be heard
So what else am I supposed to take from a statement as silly as that ?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to bounty44)

Post #: 40

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