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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/2/2015 7:33:12 PM   
thishereboi


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Status: offline 		and just why the fuck do you think I would say that?

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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/2/2015 7:42:10 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/2/2015 8:19:58 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

and just why the fuck do you think I would say that?


Could be he thinks youre a Brit, or perhaps tweakas roomy

Fag may refer to: Fag, a British and Australian colloquialism for cigarette;


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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/2/2015 8:25:38 PM   
slvemike4u


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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/2/2015 8:29:10 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Oh I understand... but just like in Colorado legalization did not slow down illegal suppliers... There will always be money in drugs... even if legalized and what would be the difference to the dead user or the abused family if the drugs were legal or not? They would just be more readily available to addict people... There will never be cheap legal drugs... is legal pot cheap in Colorado? hell no you can get it cheaper illegally but there is no penalty for possession so illegal suppliers have a larger clientele ... larger volume so they can undercut legal sales... There is no reason to think it would be different for heroin.

Butch



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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/2/2015 8:31:17 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

,everyone starts somewhere


Yes and many end up dead

Butch

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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/2/2015 8:50:44 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Oh I understand... but just like in Colorado legalization did not slow down illegal suppliers... There will always be money in drugs... even if legalized and what would be the difference to the dead user or the abused family if the drugs were legal or not? They would just be more readily available to addict people... There will never be cheap legal drugs... is legal pot cheap in Colorado? hell no you can get it cheaper illegally but there is no penalty for possession so illegal suppliers have a larger clientele ... larger volume so they can undercut legal sales... There is no reason to think it would be different for heroin.

Butch




It is early. As the free market tends to find the right pricing, and efficiencies in growing and distribution emerge, legal pot will be cheaper, and a far better experience than buying from some guy off the street.

That's the way capitalism works. There will definitely be cheap legal drugs.

Illegal pot suppliers will be out of business in Colorado in 5 years.

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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/2/2015 9:07:22 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		OK say you are right, which has not been the case so far... does this mean heroin will be cheaper... is that good!!! why can't you understand crime does not mean crap... it is the killer drug period.

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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/2/2015 9:24:43 PM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

OK say you are right, which has not been the case so far... does this mean heroin will be cheaper... is that good!!! why can't you understand crime does not mean crap... it is the killer drug period.


Yes it is good. Suppliers go out of business. Addicts do one of two things:

1) Get help (theoretically more drug rehab funds available from taxation
2) Die from their addiction of cheap heroin


Either way demand goes down.

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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/2/2015 9:26:55 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

,everyone starts somewhere


Yes and many end up dead

Butch

and those who wind up dead were junkies and would have found their way to junk with or without that first joint.
Just my opinion,one formed by the school of hard knocks Butch ,but again just an opinion.

Tell you what,google gateway drugs and check out the numerous contrary entries/comments?pages whatever they call them available on the web.


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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/3/2015 4:41:06 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Mike it is NOT apples and oranges... there is documentation that pot is a gateway drug... A person that has a need to take a chance with a drug to alter their perception of reality usually progresses from a weak to a stronger drug.


There's strong evidence that the reverse is true. This, it's thought, is in large part because when you separate one drug from the others by making it legal, you also separate the market activity involved. You go to different places and deal with different sorts of people when you buy something that's legal.

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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/3/2015 4:47:58 AM   
PeonForHer


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There's a certain sort of outlook that holds a) to the principle of the free market and how this unavoidably trumps all, but also b) to the notion of strong authority as crucial to order in a society. This issue is an example of how that outlook fucks up.

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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/3/2015 6:18:12 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		There is also evidence from Portugal where it was found that consumption of heroin and other 'hard' drugs went down when these drugs were decriminalised.
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/03/17/lowering-the-deadly-cost-of-drug-abuse/decriminalizing-possession-of-all-illicit-drugs

In the Portuguese case, specific outcomes include:

"*Levels of drug use are below the European average
*Drug use has declined among those aged 15-24,6 the population most at risk of initiating drug use7
*Lifetime drug use among the general population has increased slightly,8 in line with trends in comparable nearby countries.9 However, lifetime use is widely considered to be the least accurate measure of a country’s current drug use situation10 11
*Rates of past-year and past-month drug use among the general population – which are seen as the best indicators of evolving drug use trends12 – have decreased13
*Between 2000 and 2005 (the most recent years for which data are available) rates of problematic drug use and injecting drug use decreased14
*Drug use among adolescents decreaseddecreased for several years following decriminalisation, but has since risen to around 2003 levels15
Rates of continuation of drug use (i.e. the proportion of the population that have ever used an illicit drug and continue to do so) have decreased16"
http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-setting-record-straight

Perhaps the most relevant of these findings is that overall drug use, which prior to decriminalisation had been among the highest in Europe, with attendant increases in HUV and HepC rates, has declined and now is below the European average. So one can make a direct comparison between levels of drug use in prohibitionist States and decriminalised experiences in Portugal, and the figures from the Portugal are the most favourable and encouraging.

So the question is do we stick with a policy that is such a failure it is actually counter productive and exacerbates the problem rather than alleviating it, or do we change to a proven success?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/3/2015 6:27:38 AM >

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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/3/2015 8:13:09 AM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Yes it is good. Suppliers go out of business. Addicts do one of two things:

1) Get help (theoretically more drug rehab funds available from taxation
2) Die from their addiction of cheap heroin


Either way demand goes down.


Okay. I need a minute, here.

It's okay for me, a non-weed smoking tax payer to to subsidize the results of an addicts poor choices, but society has demonized me for smoking tobacco and has flat-out told me that they won't subsidize the results of my poor choices?

I guess some people are more equal than others.



Michael

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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/3/2015 9:48:10 AM   
CreativeDominant


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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/3/2015 9:52:18 AM   
MasterJaguar01


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Yes it is good. Suppliers go out of business. Addicts do one of two things:

1) Get help (theoretically more drug rehab funds available from taxation
2) Die from their addiction of cheap heroin


Either way demand goes down.


Okay. I need a minute, here.

It's okay for me, a non-weed smoking tax payer to to subsidize the results of an addicts poor choices, but society has demonized me for smoking tobacco and has flat-out told me that they won't subsidize the results of my poor choices?

I guess some people are more equal than others.



Michael



First of all, the only ones paying the taxes, are the ones using the drugs. So you are not subsidzing anyone.

Secoondly I am all for using revenue from taxed tobacco to be used for Nicotine rehab as well!!!

The nicotine in tobacco (as it has been genetically engineered by the tobacco companies) is as (or more so) addicting than heroin. By all means, use the money to help you break the addiction!


Nicotine addicts need as much help as heroin addicts!

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/3/2015 9:58:12 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Peon I just cannot understand why people think crime and money is important... it is not... flat out... making a killer addictive drug like heroin legal and freely accessed and at a reasonable price will only addict and kill and destroy more families... money means crap... an addict constantly needs more and more and more... and no matter the cost they cannot work or employ themselves and no matter how cheap will either revert to crime or worse to support their habit or die.

ALL THE REST MEANS SHIT!!!!

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/3/2015 10:03:00 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		tweak we went over this and over this ago in another thread and these claims turned out to be fluff... There was a large increase of death from overdose... there were continued illegal support for cheaper drugs that were often cut and more dangerous... Money was not saved in law enforcement and there was a significant increase in costs in treatment centers... this policy is a failure to people.

There is no legalization of drugs... but what has made a difference and would in the US as well is the treatment of addicts... THAT IS WHAT WORKS... not the removal of penalties... I am all for changing our policy on drugs to match their treatment services... remember they continue to fight drugs in the same way we do.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/3/2015 10:10:10 AM >

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/3/2015 10:35:10 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

First of all, the only ones paying the taxes, are the ones using the drugs. So you are not subsidzing anyone.

Secoondly I am all for using revenue from taxed tobacco to be used for Nicotine rehab as well!!!

The nicotine in tobacco (as it has been genetically engineered by the tobacco companies) is as (or more so) addicting than heroin. By all means, use the money to help you break the addiction!


Nicotine addicts need as much help as heroin addicts!


And if they dont want your help, they get it anyway?



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RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs - 5/3/2015 10:43:53 AM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

Yes it is good. Suppliers go out of business. Addicts do one of two things:

1) Get help (theoretically more drug rehab funds available from taxation
2) Die from their addiction of cheap heroin


Either way demand goes down.


Okay. I need a minute, here.

It's okay for me, a non-weed smoking tax payer to to subsidize the results of an addicts poor choices, but society has demonized me for smoking tobacco and has flat-out told me that they won't subsidize the results of my poor choices?

I guess some people are more equal than others.



Michael



First of all, the only ones paying the taxes, are the ones using the drugs. So you are not subsidzing anyone.

Secoondly I am all for using revenue from taxed tobacco to be used for Nicotine rehab as well!!!

The nicotine in tobacco (as it has been genetically engineered by the tobacco companies) is as (or more so) addicting than heroin. By all means, use the money to help you break the addiction!


Nicotine addicts need as much help as heroin addicts!


Gees, I wish I had a dollar for every city council meeting I sat in where I heard something like, "Oh goodness, we got a lot of FREE money from tobacco settlement claims. What pointless liberal program can we waste it on now and pretend there is some link to rehabilitating tobacco users?"

I don't know about you but I drive everywhere now and see gobs of tobacco rehabilitation centers using the billions of dollars in fines the tobacco industry paid in the settlement. Drive around your city. I'm sure you'll see the same if you look.

< Message edited by HunterCA -- 5/3/2015 10:46:09 AM >

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