quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

I don't know anyone left, right, or otherwise who wants to criminalize tobacco? That doesn't quite make sense?

Who wrote anything about "criminalize"

Its the ever present creeping nag, starting with ever higher sin taxes. What is it, about five bucks a pack now, on a product that should cost you a quarter? Thats how they launched the first volleys in the war on drugs, they made the cost for the tax stamps so high on the stuff no one could pay it and when you were caught with it you were charged with tax evasion

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Prohibition yes and actually the original tea party.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

If no "leftist" or (anyone else for that matter) wants to criminalize tobacco, but leftists want to legalize and tax marijuana, I don't see the hypocrisy?

Smokers cost money. Healthcare dollars. They are a burden to their employers. They are are a burden to local governments. They cause health hazards for the rest of us. If you want to smoke (tobacco, marijuana, or any other herb) go ahead. Just pay for the burden you cause.

Similarly, I pay a huge tax when I drink alcohol at a bar, or when I purchase it at the store. I know that, what I am buying puts a burden on my city and state in enforcing laws to keep it away from children, violent people, and people already intoxicated.


I WANT alcohol, tobacco, marijuana OUT of the hands of children, and irresponsible adults, and I don't mind paying a tax to support that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

~ Fast Reply~

Why is no one bothered by the other 6 people executed for drug trafficking? Why are only these two special snowflakes?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

Prohibition yes and actually the original tea party.

Tea doesnt have much kick as far as drugs go though, not enough caffeine

Give me a double espresso with one raw sugar, and a strong 100% Colombian brew chaser

I also keep a stash of 100% Mulvadi Kona on hand, for those special occasions

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

~ Fast Reply~

Why is no one bothered by the other 6 people executed for drug trafficking? Why are only these two special snowflakes?

Better poster child:

Australian mother Maria Exposto faces possible death sentence after chemist confirms she was carrying crystal meth in Malaysia

Although, what kind of a mom can she be if she does meth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

~ Fast Reply~

Why is no one bothered by the other 6 people executed for drug trafficking? Why are only these two special snowflakes?

Better poster child:

Australian mother Maria Exposto faces possible death sentence after chemist confirms she was carrying crystal meth in Malaysia

Although, what kind of a mom can she be if she does meth

Possibly a good one? Hasn't Hollywood given us a whole TV series about how good a family man some meth maker is?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

~ Fast Reply~

Why is no one bothered by the other 6 people executed for drug trafficking? Why are only these two special snowflakes?

Better poster child:

Australian mother Maria Exposto faces possible death sentence after chemist confirms she was carrying crystal meth in Malaysia

Although, what kind of a mom can she be if she does meth

Possibly a good one? Hasn't Hollywood given us a whole TV series about how good a family man some meth maker is?

Sad really that the series was so freakin good

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

~ Fast Reply~

Why is no one bothered by the other 6 people executed for drug trafficking? Why are only these two special snowflakes?

Better poster child:

Australian mother Maria Exposto faces possible death sentence after chemist confirms she was carrying crystal meth in Malaysia

Although, what kind of a mom can she be if she does meth

Possibly a good one? Hasn't Hollywood given us a whole TV series about how good a family man some meth maker is?

Sad really that the series was so freakin good

I have not watched it but I did see the action figures when I was looking for a Tyrion figure for a stocking stuffer. To tell the truth, I was not willing to spend 20 plus bucks on a small toy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


I think it was way over the top to make kids toys of characters of an adult show like that. I will say though that those figurines will probably have excellent collectors value. I thought they yanked them off the shelves in most places because of parents complaining.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

If no "leftist" or (anyone else for that matter) wants to criminalize tobacco, but leftists want to legalize and tax marijuana, I don't see the hypocrisy?

Smokers cost money. Healthcare dollars. They are a burden to their employers. They are are a burden to local governments. They cause health hazards for the rest of us. If you want to smoke (tobacco, marijuana, or any other herb) go ahead. Just pay for the burden you cause.

Similarly, I pay a huge tax when I drink alcohol at a bar, or when I purchase it at the store. I know that, what I am buying puts a burden on my city and state in enforcing laws to keep it away from children, violent people, and people already intoxicated.


I WANT alcohol, tobacco, marijuana OUT of the hands of children, and irresponsible adults, and I don't mind paying a tax to support that.

No, much of that is myth. Cigarettes do not cause enough of an additional burdens to justify current efforts to raise taxes on it so high that it is effectively another round of prohibition

Studies have even shown that its cheaper to bury a smoker at a relatively younger age than to keep doctoring nonsmokers warehoused in nursing homes until they are 110 or whatever

I addressed that here and in this thread from 2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

~ Fast Reply~

Why is no one bothered by the other 6 people executed for drug trafficking? Why are only these two special snowflakes?

Better poster child:

Australian mother Maria Exposto faces possible death sentence after chemist confirms she was carrying crystal meth in Malaysia

Although, what kind of a mom can she be if she does meth

Possibly a good one? Hasn't Hollywood given us a whole TV series about how good a family man some meth maker is?

Sad really that the series was so freakin good

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

If no "leftist" or (anyone else for that matter) wants to criminalize tobacco, but leftists want to legalize and tax marijuana, I don't see the hypocrisy?

Smokers cost money. Healthcare dollars. They are a burden to their employers. They are are a burden to local governments. They cause health hazards for the rest of us. If you want to smoke (tobacco, marijuana, or any other herb) go ahead. Just pay for the burden you cause.

Similarly, I pay a huge tax when I drink alcohol at a bar, or when I purchase it at the store. I know that, what I am buying puts a burden on my city and state in enforcing laws to keep it away from children, violent people, and people already intoxicated.


I WANT alcohol, tobacco, marijuana OUT of the hands of children, and irresponsible adults, and I don't mind paying a tax to support that.

No, much of that is myth. Cigarettes do not cause enough of an additional burdens to justify current efforts to raise taxes on it so high that it is effectively another round of prohibition

Studies have even shown that its cheaper to bury a smoker at a relatively younger age than to keep doctoring nonsmokers warehoused in nursing homes until they are 110 or whatever

I addressed that here and in this thread from 2009

First of all, I did not comment on the amount of the tax VS the burden. (So, I am not sure what you are saying is myth.) Secondly, I am not sure how any study come to that blanket conclusion, since:

1) The taxes on cigarettes vary wildly from state to state. (I believe my own state of Washington is the highest or near highest in the country).
2) The quality of healthcare varies from state to state (I believe my own state of Washington is near the highest in the country :))
3) The COST of healthcare varies wildly from state to state (as does the insurance market)
4) The payer MIX of the population varies wildly from state to state (privately insure, uninsured, medicaid, medicare, etc.)
5) Patient engagement varies wildly from state to state



If your point is that the taxes are too high, to simply recover lost funds caused by smokers, but rather designed to discourage smoking, I will concede in some states (like my own), that may be the case. I don't know the facts. (Which is precisely why I did not comment on the AMOUNT of the taxes. (and therefore espoused no "myth")).

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

If no "leftist" or (anyone else for that matter) wants to criminalize tobacco, but leftists want to legalize and tax marijuana, I don't see the hypocrisy?

Smokers cost money. Healthcare dollars. They are a burden to their employers. They are are a burden to local governments. They cause health hazards for the rest of us. If you want to smoke (tobacco, marijuana, or any other herb) go ahead. Just pay for the burden you cause.

Similarly, I pay a huge tax when I drink alcohol at a bar, or when I purchase it at the store. I know that, what I am buying puts a burden on my city and state in enforcing laws to keep it away from children, violent people, and people already intoxicated.


I WANT alcohol, tobacco, marijuana OUT of the hands of children, and irresponsible adults, and I don't mind paying a tax to support that.

No, much of that is myth. Cigarettes do not cause enough of an additional burdens to justify current efforts to raise taxes on it so high that it is effectively another round of prohibition

Studies have even shown that its cheaper to bury a smoker at a relatively younger age than to keep doctoring nonsmokers warehoused in nursing homes until they are 110 or whatever

I addressed that here and in this thread from 2009

First of all, I did not comment on the amount of the tax VS the burden. (So, I am not sure what you are saying is myth.) Secondly, I am not sure how any study come to that blanket conclusion, since:

1) The taxes on cigarettes vary wildly from state to state. (I believe my own state of Washington is the highest or near highest in the country).
2) The quality of healthcare varies from state to state (I believe my own state of Washington is near the highest in the country :))
3) The COST of healthcare varies wildly from state to state (as does the insurance market)
4) The payer MIX of the population varies wildly from state to state (privately insure, uninsured, medicaid, medicare, etc.)
5) Patient engagement varies wildly from state to state



If your point is that the taxes are too high, to simply recover lost funds caused by smokers, but rather designed to discourage smoking, I will concede in some states (like my own), that may be the case. I don't know the facts. (Which is precisely why I did not comment on the AMOUNT of the taxes. (and therefore espoused no "myth")).

I think his point is that it's the nanny state( a pet peeve of his )trying to discourage smoking....and he objects(I'm assuming he or someone he loves is a smoker)to paying that cost.

I disagree,I do think it's government trying to discourage smoking and I applaud their efforts in doing so.....I'm a life long smoker currently trying to purge this disgusting habit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01
First of all, I did not comment on the amount of the tax VS the burden. (So, I am not sure what you are saying is myth.) Secondly, I am not sure how any study come to that blanket conclusion, since:

1) The taxes on cigarettes vary wildly from state to state. (I believe my own state of Washington is the highest or near highest in the country).
2) The quality of healthcare varies from state to state (I believe my own state of Washington is near the highest in the country :))
3) The COST of healthcare varies wildly from state to state (as does the insurance market)
4) The payer MIX of the population varies wildly from state to state (privately insure, uninsured, medicaid, medicare, etc.)
5) Patient engagement varies wildly from state to state



If your point is that the taxes are too high, to simply recover lost funds caused by smokers, but rather designed to discourage smoking, I will concede in some states (like my own), that may be the case. I don't know the facts. (Which is precisely why I did not comment on the AMOUNT of the taxes. (and therefore espoused no "myth")).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

It seems that someone thinks that it's a successful strategy that many tens of thousands of people actually die in the Narco Wars in Mexico Guatelmala etc to prevent the " flood of drugs that could addict and kill many more thousands."

Can't even do basic arithmetic so it's no surprise that thinking for themselves is a bit too much to ask.

The war on drugs isnt perfect but it isnt pointless. Just ask anyone who has lost friends or family to addiction.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So let me get this straight:
Sanity is in favour of executing those who peddle one lethal drug (heroin) but wants taxes reduced on the sale of another lethal drug (nicotine) and presumably no penalties on those who peddle nicotine/tobacco. I can't believe that I am the only one who finds this position somewhat contradictory. It's a position dictated by naked self interest yet he rejects others who advocate or act in their own interests or needs.

Nor do I see any problem with imposing taxes on tobacco sales while advocating the decriminalisation of drugs such as heroin or marijuana. I would be in favour of heavy taxes on legal sales of all those drugs. This position is entirely consistent, some would say mandated, by the harm minimisation approach to drug use. Funds generated by the taxes can be used to finance rehab and other medical approaches to addiction therapies and also be incorporated in general revenue relieving the burden on taxpayers, who I am sure would welcome any decrease in the govt take on their personal finances.