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RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/15/2015 5:51:51 PM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

No one here seems willing to address the fact that global warming and cooling, as part of the natural history of the planet, have been determined through rock and ice core samples for decades. Whether or not humans are causing or aggrevating the natural course of the planet and what it will eventually do anyhow, why aren't people (in general) giving the topic a more appropriate title and following up, perhaps something like

"The Study of Things That Could Wipe Out the Entire Human Race (Other Than Itself)"?

I think humans do aggrevate the natural course of the planet's evolution, yes. I also think it will happen whether we do anything or not, and that if we're looking for reasons to care, potential extinction (be it were hundreds of thousands of years or a handful of decades in the future) should top the list. The only real factors in the whole drama surrounding the topic of climate change that should be scrutinized are urgency and practicality. When do we need the solution, and what kind of resources would finding a solution take? (As opposed to "does this even really exist?", which is an approach that baffles me.)

I could work with that attitude. The OP for this thread is a tecie kinda guy. He was making a tecie kinda comment. We do have our moments with arguing global warming. It just really hasn't shown up on this thread, which amazes me. But, I put it down to respect for the OP. He's never, to my knowledge, been biased so I think we're all trying to leave our bias at the door with our shoes. But, that's my opinion. Now if you want to start a wingding of an argument on here, go make a thread out of what you just said. There's not a doubt in my mind you'll get reaction.

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Profile   Post #: 141
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 5:06:03 AM   
bounty44


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I agree your question is valid, but for the purpose of this thread, its premise has been refuted.

the question at hand isn't how does x, y and z fit into a conservative government (especially when x, y and z often do indeed come under criticism from conservatives) but rather, how does combating "climate change" do so in particular?

if x, y and z aren't right by conservative principles, then just because our govt engages in them, that doesn't make combating "climate change" right (from a conservative govt perspective) either.

I think you mentioned a difference between how brits understand conservatism and how americans do?

I would think that individual freedom, private enterprise and freedom from government control are universal aspects of the idea.



(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 5:13:38 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

No one here seems willing to address the fact that global warming and cooling, as part of the natural history of the planet, have been determined through rock and ice core samples for decades. Whether or not humans are causing or aggrevating the natural course of the planet and what it will eventually do anyhow, why aren't people (in general) giving the topic a more appropriate title and following up, perhaps something like

"The Study of Things That Could Wipe Out the Entire Human Race (Other Than Itself)"?

I think humans do aggrevate the natural course of the planet's evolution, yes. I also think it will happen whether we do anything or not, and that if we're looking for reasons to care, potential extinction (be it were hundreds of thousands of years or a handful of decades in the future) should top the list. The only real factors in the whole drama surrounding the topic of climate change that should be scrutinized are urgency and practicality. When do we need the solution, and what kind of resources would finding a solution take? (As opposed to "does this even really exist?", which is an approach that baffles me.)

I could work with that attitude. The OP for this thread is a tecie kinda guy. He was making a tecie kinda comment. We do have our moments with arguing global warming. It just really hasn't shown up on this thread, which amazes me. But, I put it down to respect for the OP. He's never, to my knowledge, been biased so I think we're all trying to leave our bias at the door with our shoes. But, that's my opinion. Now if you want to start a wingding of an argument on here, go make a thread out of what you just said. There's not a doubt in my mind you'll get reaction.


I confess I hope he doesn't, that topic has been beaten to death here and here's how it goes:

conservatives/libertarians point out conflicting research, liberals call us deniers.

conservatives/libertarians point out fraudulent research and manipulating data, liberals call us deniers.

conservatives/libertarians point out the bias in the field, liberals call us deniers.

conservatives/libertarians point out how the argument has changed over the decades and how prior predictions don't pan out, liberals call us deniers.



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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 6:53:07 AM   
mnottertail


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liberals point out conflicting reality conservatives/libertarians call them deniers.

liberals point out fraudulent propaganda and manipulating data conservatives/libertarians call them deniers.

liberals point out the bias in the field conservatives/libertarians call them deniers.

liberals point out how the argument has changed over the decades and how prior predictions don't pan out conservatives/libertarians call them deniers.


well, well. what now.


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Profile   Post #: 144
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 6:53:51 AM   
Lucylastic


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Curtailing the Earth sciences mission of Nasa would deprive scientists of important data relating to volcanic eruptions, destructive algae growth, extreme weather events and much more, experts warned a week after a confrontation on Capitol Hill over the Nasa budget between Senator Ted Cruz and the agency director.
At a routine budget hearing, Cruz challenged Nasa’s administrator, Charles Bolden, a former astronaut, to explain why funding for the agency’s Earth sciences mission had grown while funding for space exploration had shrunk.

“I would suggest that almost any American would agree that the core function of Nasa is to explore space,” Cruz said. “I am concerned that Nasa in the current environment has lost its full focus on that core mission.”

Bolden replied that a shift in emphasis away from manned space shuttle flights had produced savings in the area of exploration, but that in any case the observation and study of Earth was a central part of Nasa’s core mission.

“It is absolutely critical that we understand Earth’s environment, because this is the only place we have to live,” Bolden said. “We’ve got to take care of it. and the only way to take care of it is to know what’s happening.”

The exchange raised eyebrows in part because Cruz is a climate change skeptic, and his attack on Nasa’s efforts to study the Earth, which it carries out primarily through satellite technology, was perceived as an attack on the ability to document climate change. Cruz’s office did not reply to a request for comment.

But Cruz’s position could be seen as merely an extension of previous Republican attempts to reduce Nasa’s Earth sciences mission, which some have proposed should be shifted to another agency such as the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, said Marcia S Smith, founder and editor of SpacePolicyOnline.com.

“It’s not new, it’s not something that Senator Cruz came up with,” Smith said. “He’s arguing what has been a Republican line for some time, which is that this should not be Nasa’s responsibility, because Nasa’s unique role is space exploration, so that should be its priority.”

Top Earth and space scientists warned, however, that the particular exploration of earth that Nasa carries out with satellites could not readily be replicated by a different agency.

“Nasa is an agency that has incredible expertise in satellites and in getting satellites into space,” said Margaret Leinen, vice-chancellor for marine sciences and director of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography at the University of California-San Diego. “And while Noaa does some of that, Nasa is the agency that, that’s their bread-and-butter. They are the experts.”

Leinen said Nasa satellites could observe deformations of the Earth on a day-to-day, week-to-week basis that could identify a seismic or volcanic event. “You can see how a volcano is bulging, and how dangerous it is,” she said. “Whether it’s moving or whether it’s quiet. You can look at the major faults in Los Angeles and other places, and see the accumulation of stress.

“One of Nasa’s satellites that looks at the oceans, called Aqua, has many different measuring instruments on it,” Leinen continued. “One of them, for example, allows us to look at the concentration of phytoplankton in the ocean, and what kind of phytoplankton are there. And one of the things that that’s used for is monitoring harmful algal blooms in coastal areas.

“It’s another great example of a basic research satellite that’s also doing work that’s essential to protecting us from harm.”

A Nasa satellite project allowed teams responding to the 2010 Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico to track the movement of the oil into coastal waterways and monitor other impacts, according to a letter sent to Cruz by the American Geophysical Union, which represents 60,000 earth and space scientists.

The White House agreed in its latest budget request that Nasa’s earth sciences program was critical, calling for a 10% jump to $1.9bn for the program for fiscal year 2016, out of $18.5bn total for the agency. As chairman of the Senate subcommittee that oversees Nasa, Cruz can hold oversight hearings and originate legislation shaping Nasa, Smith has pointed out, but Cruz does not hold the agency’s purse strings, which belong to appropriations.

In any case, Cruz, for his general budget hawkishness, has not called for cuts to Nasa’s space exploration mission. Legislators from Texas tend to like space exploration, for one very good reason named the Lyndon B Johnson space center, which sprawls over 1,600 acres just outside Houston (as in, “Houston, we’ve had a problem”).

Space exploration is “what inspires little boys and little girls across this country”, Cruz said at last week’s hearing. “It’s what sets Nasa apart from any other agency, is the mission that has landed man on the moon, that has the potential to explore new worlds beyond our imagination.”

Bolden, the Nasa administrator, replied that space exploration would not be possible if rising sea levels sank launchpads in coastal areas such as Cape Canaveral, Florida.

“We can’t go anywhere if the Kennedy space center goes underwater, and we don’t know it,” Bolden said. “That’s understanding our environment.”

Leinen said it was important for Congress to promote understanding of how and why Nasa looks at the Earth.

“What’s concerning is that if people don’t understand the value of the Earth sciences mission, it can lead to cuts down the line,” she said. “It can lead to – in the same way that a misunderstanding in any part of life can lead to consequences – what’s concerning is that this could lead to a misunderstanding within Congress about the importance of that valuable mission.”
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/18/scientists-criticise-ted-cruz-attack-nasa

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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 5:11:55 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I agree your question is valid, but for the purpose of this thread, its premise has been refuted.

the question at hand isn't how does x, y and z fit into a conservative government (especially when x, y and z often do indeed come under criticism from conservatives) but rather, how does combating "climate change" do so in particular?

if x, y and z aren't right by conservative principles, then just because our govt engages in them, that doesn't make combating "climate change" right (from a conservative govt perspective) either.

I think you mentioned a difference between how brits understand conservatism and how americans do?

I would think that individual freedom, private enterprise and freedom from government control are universal aspects of the idea.





Well for the purpose of the thread, I have refuted your refute. If you wish to apply unversal aspects of the idea, why is America so different from the rest of the EU and elswhere.

The UK definition has to be the correct one, since it was the original. One concept of it is to maintain the Monarchy.

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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 5:15:43 PM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I agree your question is valid, but for the purpose of this thread, its premise has been refuted.

the question at hand isn't how does x, y and z fit into a conservative government (especially when x, y and z often do indeed come under criticism from conservatives) but rather, how does combating "climate change" do so in particular?

if x, y and z aren't right by conservative principles, then just because our govt engages in them, that doesn't make combating "climate change" right (from a conservative govt perspective) either.

I think you mentioned a difference between how brits understand conservatism and how americans do?

I would think that individual freedom, private enterprise and freedom from government control are universal aspects of the idea.





Well for the purpose of the thread, I have refuted your refute. If you wish to apply unversal aspects of the idea, why is America so different from the rest of the EU and elswhere.

The UK definition has to be the correct one, since it was the original. One concept of it is to maintain the Monarchy.



Okay, I'm laughing. Not at you. If American English is now the universal definition....I mean who spells color with a "u" anywhere...why would the UK definition of anything be correct just because it was original?

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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 5:35:39 PM   
Lucylastic


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Canada, Australia and most other colonial countries use the U.
American english is only popular in the US.

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Profile   Post #: 148
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 5:44:38 PM   
Politesub53


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Hunter..... American definitions of political positions always amaze me. They are so different from the same definition used in the rest of the Western world..

My point to bounty is that by our definition, and the rest of the EU come to that, Cameron is indeed Conservative. He has woken up to the idea of global warming kind of late and is trying to use its popularity to kickstart small industry in the UK. There is nothing unConservative about trying to drum up more businesses.

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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 6:05:22 PM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Hunter..... American definitions of political positions always amaze me. They are so different from the same definition used in the rest of the Western world..

My point to bounty is that by our definition, and the rest of the EU come to that, Cameron is indeed Conservative. He has woken up to the idea of global warming kind of late and is trying to use its popularity to kickstart small industry in the UK. There is nothing unConservative about trying to drum up more businesses.



Yes, I know that PS. It is lamentable that our patriarch Britain went the way of Europe. I lament anyway.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 6:09:11 PM   
Politesub53


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If you hadnt left us, you would still be speaking properly.

~ Politesubs thought for the day. 17-5-2015.

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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 6:09:23 PM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Canada, Australia and most other colonial countries use the U.
American english is only popular in the US.



Oh Lucy, I understand your constant state of huff has no room for humor. So let me just say I used to belive the same thing until I had conversations with several Cannadians who assured me it wasn't tought in any Canadian school they knew about. I give them the benefit of the doubt since it's their school system. Having discussed it with Egyptians educated in Britain, they tell me, as well, they prefer the American spelling. But, as that goes, my sample size may be small.

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Profile   Post #: 152
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 6:11:42 PM   
Politesub53


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Talking of humour (with a "h") Who taught you to spell tought, or did you mean tort ?

Curious minds and all that.

(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 6:11:43 PM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

If you hadnt left us, you would still be speaking properly.

~ Politesubs thought for the day. 17-5-2015.



That is true. But, then, if we hadn't left we'd all still probably be sailing around in wooden ships.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 6:14:36 PM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Talking of humour (with a "h") Who taught you to spell tought, or did you mean tort ?

Curious minds and all that.


I guarantee you that my spelling errs are not from lack of people trying to teach me proper spelling. It just seems to go in one ear, rattle around for a while and be forgotten. I admit I'd be a hod carrier now if someone didn't invent computers and spell check.

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Profile   Post #: 155
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 6:15:12 PM   
Lucylastic


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Having lived in canada for 25 years and having dealt with the canadian education system for 23 of it . Never mind having worked here dealing with "canadian english" I can loudly disprove it
However... meh
believe what you wish


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Profile   Post #: 156
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 6:17:34 PM   
Politesub53


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Oh boy oh boy, now I gotta explain shipbuilding, history of.

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RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 6:43:44 PM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Oh boy oh boy, now I gotta explain shipbuilding, history of.


As long as you include the monitor and the Merrimack, I'll listen.

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Profile   Post #: 158
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 6:45:12 PM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Having lived in canada for 25 years and having dealt with the canadian education system for 23 of it . Never mind having worked here dealing with "canadian english" I can loudly disprove it
However... meh
believe what you wish




Don't get all huffy. Make your point and move on. It seems here you have a valid point contrary to my limited experience. No need for adding angst to the discussion for attention.

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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: CO2 levels hit a record high.. - 5/16/2015 6:58:02 PM   
Lucylastic


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You havent seen me huffy.....no matter what you imagine.


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Profile   Post #: 160
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