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RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/11/2015 7:45:51 PM   
kdsub


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If the premise is the difference in the amount and type of coverage I believe it is valid... if the premise is no one cares they were murdered then it is not.

Butch

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RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/11/2015 7:53:44 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It is telling however to compare the media reaction and coverage... I do wonder how extensive and intense the coverage would be it it were two police shooting black men at a traffic stop?

Butch

At least ten times as much.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/11/2015 8:00:46 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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The thread title not enough for you?
Just the thread title is bullshit
There were over 2 million links on google regarding the cops killed in MS.
not enough for you?

quote:

Saturday evening two cops in Hattiesburg MS were murdered during a "routine" traffic stop.
If they had managed to shoot the thug everyone would care, since only cops were killed apparently no one cares.

was the OP
where does it state in there the race issue.
NO
Thug shot, ...everyone cares(apparently) (notice there have been no shooting deaths of thugs mentioned here since the garland texas ones.)
Cops shot no one cares...apparently

Im not getting into another fucking race argument with you or other posters who are determined to make it about race.
that was NOT the premise of the OP In the slightest


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/11/2015 8:05:53 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Re check your links Lucy... in the Ferguson incident... it was WHITE COP kills unarmed BLACK... WHITE or POLICE kill BLACKS in each incident prominently... now look at your links... how many times do you see the race of the killers mentioned in the stories.

How many stories have the grieving mother and father with microphones in their faces.

How many outraged family and friends of the police do you see on camera condemning the violence in the black community?

How many pastors of the police do you see being interviewed condemning senseless violence against police?

How many governors, mayors, district attorneys do you see interviewed?

How many stories mention the statistics of how many police are killed... disabled...and wounded by blacks in performance of duties... they certainly had no problem finding how many blacks were killed by police.

I could go on and on with the differences in coverage... I understand the difference in stories and I actually think this story was covered correctly... it is the Ferguson...New York... and Baltimore stories that were a media circus.

Butch

To a large extent I agree with you. If the cop kills someone we have a media circus, if someone kill a cop it gets a mention and is forgotten.
Last year the number of cops killed went up 89%, this year looks like it will be worse.
The media circus around things like Ferguson seem to increase the lack of respect for the police and the tendency to resort to violence when interacting with the police.
People on "social media" and discussion groups like here rush to make excuses for the criminals because there is always some claim of police misconduct. I imagine you remember but I immediately came out against the police in Balt, the Gardner death, and in NC. I mention this as I have been and expect to be again accused of automatically backing the police no matter what they do. Many others do exactly the opposite and have never seen a shooting by the police they didn't find questionable. Things like so he was trying to run over them with a suv up , she was unarmed, they should have tasered her. (actuall comment).

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/11/2015 9:50:41 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You have forgotten the outrage toward the cops when they shot a man in NY who was attacking them with a knife, the case in St Louis under the same circumstances, Ferguson where the cop was cleared, a case in Iowa where the left was horrified when the cops shot someone who was trying to run them down with a stolen truck and one in Co was shot trying to run cops down with an SUV. Too many people find "questions" every time, some on here have even proclaimed their hatred for cops. One person even stated that the only difference between the cops and the people they arrest is the badge.

I haven't forgotten anything, but keep building those idiotic strawmen.

quote:

Say it as many times as you want there is a strong anti cop undercurrent here and you denying it won't change it.

Keep spouting idiocy, I'll keep calling you on it.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/11/2015 10:24:16 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You have forgotten the outrage toward the cops when they shot a man in NY who was attacking them with a knife, the case in St Louis under the same circumstances, Ferguson where the cop was cleared, a case in Iowa where the left was horrified when the cops shot someone who was trying to run them down with a stolen truck and one in Co was shot trying to run cops down with an SUV. Too many people find "questions" every time, some on here have even proclaimed their hatred for cops. One person even stated that the only difference between the cops and the people they arrest is the badge.

I haven't forgotten anything, but keep building those idiotic strawmen.

quote:

Say it as many times as you want there is a strong anti cop undercurrent here and you denying it won't change it.

Keep spouting idiocy, I'll keep calling you on it.

Then you know we have a bunch of people who will always blame the cops no matter how silly an argument they need to use. You also know that violence against cops is skyrocketing. My point is that this is a dangerous trend which threatens not only cops but the rest of use as well. You can think that this extreme rise in contempt for authority is idiotic, I think ignoring it is. You keep pretending your calling me on something and i will keep laughing at your blindness.

Don't you find the dramatic rise in violence corresponding to the daily drumbeat about how cops are so brutal and just looking for an excuse to kill minorities. Are you really so blind you can't see that. This is what I am trying to bring attention to.

PS everything I mentioned came from threads on this site. Do you know how stupid someone has to be to say that
A A person trying to run over someone with a car is unarmed
and
B That the cops should use a taser on the driver while the car is still moving?

Why are you so offended that someone values cops lives over those of drug dealers?

< Message edited by BamaD -- 5/11/2015 10:26:06 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/11/2015 10:43:21 PM   
BamaD


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FR

The mother of Marvin Banks, one of the men charged with the murder of two Hattiesburg cops made the following statements.

One that Banks was a drug addict and had been hearing voices since being hit in the head with a pipe a few years ago.

Then she said that the way cops harass young black men something like this was bound to happen.

Blame the dead cops.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/11/2015 11:42:12 PM   
stef


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Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Then you know we have a bunch of people who will always blame the cops no matter how silly an argument they need to use. You also know that violence against cops is skyrocketing. My point is that this is a dangerous trend which threatens not only cops but the rest of use as well. You can think that this extreme rise in contempt for authority is idiotic, I think ignoring it is. You keep pretending your calling me on something and i will keep laughing at your blindness.

Don't you find the dramatic rise in violence corresponding to the daily drumbeat about how cops are so brutal and just looking for an excuse to kill minorities. Are you really so blind you can't see that. This is what I am trying to bring attention to.

PS everything I mentioned came from threads on this site. Do you know how stupid someone has to be to say that
A A person trying to run over someone with a car is unarmed
and
B That the cops should use a taser on the driver while the car is still moving?

Why are you so offended that someone values cops lives over those of drug dealers?

Why do you keep building strawmen?

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/11/2015 11:45:28 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Saturday evening two cops in Hattiesburg MS were murdered during a "routine" traffic stop.
If they had managed to shoot the thug everyone would care, since only cops were killed apparently no one cares.


I think you are being 'way of target' here. People do care when police officers die in the line of duty. And they care when police officers are mistreating people. But you know well enough there are people that will try to profit of something. Those are the ones to be wary of. I've seen plenty of moments in the last six months alone of police and other civil servants doing many good deeds and actions towards the public. In one instance, a police officer had a 'dance off' with some teenagers. The teenagers were good; the cop, was better!

There are plenty of moments in which one or more persons in a car during a traffic stop tried to kill police. And those officers not only defended themselves but either killed/arrested the suspects. Each one of those is investigated, just as the incident in Hattiesburg, MS. They will go over the processes and information. Study what, if anything, went wrong and how to possibly fix it. There might not be a useful fix. That officers, even cautions ones, are still at risk of a dangerous encounter. That is part of the job.




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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/12/2015 12:11:28 AM   
JVoV


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FR

If you look at a list of reasons the death penalty can be given, killing a police officer is probably right on top.

People care. Government cares. Other cops care.

But what matters most, now that the suspects have been arrested, is making sure that they are brought to justice, without even a hint of wrong-doing any step of the way.

Which is probably a big part of why the suspects have been moved to undisclosed jails outside of Hattiesburg.

< Message edited by JVoV -- 5/12/2015 12:12:33 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/12/2015 12:12:31 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Then you know we have a bunch of people who will always blame the cops no matter how silly an argument they need to use. You also know that violence against cops is skyrocketing. My point is that this is a dangerous trend which threatens not only cops but the rest of use as well. You can think that this extreme rise in contempt for authority is idiotic, I think ignoring it is. You keep pretending your calling me on something and i will keep laughing at your blindness.


Allow me to say this alittle differently. Try to notice how it sounds coming from you and others on here....

"Then you know we have a bunch of people who will always blame the US Government no matter how silly an argument they need to use. You also know that violence against the US Government is skyrocketing. My point is that this is a dangerous trend which threatens no only the US Government but the rest of us as well. You can think that this extreme rise in contempt for authority is idiotic, I think ignoring it is."

I only changed one concept in the above paragraph, and yet, it is STILL true. Need a recent example of a silly argument made by people that will blame the US Government? Google 'Jade Helm 15'. Its made Gov. Abbott, Chuck Norris, and Sen. Ted Cruz look like conspiracy whining idiots.

Violence is no more on the rise than two days before this all happen. There is perception of violence and the real numbers. You know that people will sometimes remove facts and evidence because it doesn't fit with their narration of reality. Some do this on purpose and with an agenda in mind. Others do this without consciously realizing they are doing it. Those, need to be sat down and talked with for a while to alleviate fears. If you cant find any good friends, find a therapist!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Don't you find the dramatic rise in violence corresponding to the daily drumbeat about how cops are so brutal and just looking for an excuse to kill minorities. Are you really so blind you can't see that. This is what I am trying to bring attention to.


Calm Down, BamaD. You know that when people get over anxious or agitated, they stop thinking things clearly and rationally. So this is for you to do just that. An I say this respectfully!

There is no rise. Just the perception of it. There are 'bad apple' police officers. Its very sad when we find them out the hard way. An that same barrel has many unsung heroes whom put it 'all on the line each' day to keep us safe and sound.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
PS everything I mentioned came from threads on this site. Do you know how stupid someone has to be to say that
A A person trying to run over someone with a car is unarmed
and
B That the cops should use a taser on the driver while the car is still moving?


We all have 'moments' like this one on the thread. We are all passionate individuals. Sometimes, that passion gets out of control. Either by something we see or hear in the media. Or as a reply someone stated to us that just 'annoys the fuck out of us to no end'.

I can't hear the voice in your words. I get the sense of someone feeling like a corned animal and blindly lashing out in fear.

Take it from me. Step back, consider, think....

...Then come back and speak. You have some good ideas. But those are drowned out right now behind the curtain of 'your passionate mood on the subject'.

I'm not saying any of this to be an asshole or bring you more misery. It sounds and feels like you have plenty already!

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/12/2015 3:03:50 AM   
JVoV


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Here, Bama. Proof that people care.

Here too.

< Message edited by JVoV -- 5/12/2015 3:04:53 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/12/2015 3:30:11 AM   
eulero83


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BamaD, ther are a lot of people that care for those two cops the suspect will be detained prosecuted and more likely sentenced, there is a whole power structure that will care for them and their families in a more effective way than a news paper article even though they can't be back alive, I do not like violence and I'm on the side of those two officers.
About you I would actually be a little sympathetic with your concerns about self defence and gun control if you were a much worried for other costitutional rights when they are infringed. And if you don't get addressing the problem of police brutality will make the job easier, safer and probably more efficent for every law abaiding cop in your country than you are very shortsighted, if you really car for honest cops you should be advocating for the criminals in baltimore to be prosecuted in the harshest way, because not only they committed a very serious crime but doing this on duty created distrust in those officers that want to make a good and meaningfull job.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/12/2015 3:47:06 AM   
epiphiny43


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Getting excited and making claims about the media does nothing to change that it's suddenly a different world, where everyone has portable video cams and they now use them to document what were ignored claims in minority or low income communities where police misconduct was routine and if not established policy, unofficial group behavior, ignored by supervisors and local prosecutors as well as media. Nothing new here, it's happening all over the world and has been going on in the US for generations to now centuries.
In defense, departments are moving to documenting each beat officer's surroundings and behavior. Those representatives of the larger society will have to relearn old habits and 'good ol' boy' agreements to ignore or lie about LEO violence or participate in it.
During the days of Freedom Marches, some wise man observed: "If you want to keep a man in the gutter, part of you has to stay there with him to hold him down." We are reaping that whirlwind of violence as a new generation tries to rise against the violence of racism and capitalism against the exploited and disregarded. Using the tools they see at hand, it's going to be a mess before anything gets better.
None of which excuses those trashing their own communities by BBWB (Behaving Badly While Black) pretending they are revolting against a white community that they aren't even close to.
A greater culture that glorifies violence in so many forms (Drones, WWF, NFL, Sniper heros, general Hollywood ultra violent drama, first person shooter games, etc.) can't expect much different when parts of the culture are provoked, agitated and given opportunities to exploit events for personal gain and getting attention.
I think enough good people in both local communities and in the organizations keeping cities working will respond in creative ways to find new answers and ways of working together. Many police departments are catching up if not ahead of the curve. The many community leaders marching for mature responses to the situation in Baltimore are a great example of what must happen to change basic attitudes and practices. Sad that much of the infotainment industry (WHOLLY owned and lead by the ultra wealthy) chose to ignore these efforts. People working to polarize everyone (in the British ultimate insult) 'aren't being helpful'. This thread's title is a poster child for people throwing gas on a fire and then blaming others for lighting it.
Rev. King understood you can't create a peaceful community by violence. A lesson that needs repeating every generation. Repression likewise never really creates the safety those with present advantage think it will, paranoia and hate kill their souls. Those who don't like what's happening now have to look inside their souls as much as to outside forces if they want anything to change. Marx and Lenin and Trotsky were wrong, methods ARE the ends. Stalin was their natural child, not the greater good of mankind they envisioned. Current US fear politics are no different at the core.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/12/2015 4:10:46 AM   
Rule


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Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

I'm not seeing a pattern, other than most police shootings being assumed to be justified, particularly of minorities (Assumption of criminality?) and completely ignored in the main. We do have a few recent overly publicized ones that are disturbing those emotionally invested in the status quo.
I'm seeing comparable coverage of News Worthy police deaths, particularly pure assassinations. Police or perps dying in mutually armed shootouts isn't news, it's family and community tragedies that don't have the required political weight for headline material. It's like dog bites man. Ciminals killing anyone isn't news except for unusual method or numbers. We hold the enforcers of Law and Order to a higher standard, and humans won't always be conforming to any standard.
The frequent community assumptions of police brutality and failure to be held accountable is an obvious result of . . . minority directed police brutality and failure to be held accountable. Which anyone with eyes and ears knows happens. By both white and minority police. Culture wars, like all wars, breed assumptions and brutality as 'opponents' get stereotyped and denigrated. Cultures where the college bound students ape the gang culture styles (For simple neighborhood survival) doesn't help much. The conflicts and deaths get exaggerated by various activists and provocateurs. Like every thing else possible, either side of any social chasm.



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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/12/2015 4:18:55 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I think you are being 'way of target' here. People do care when police officers die in the line of duty. And they care when police officers are mistreating people. But you know well enough there are people that will try to profit of something. Those are the ones to be wary of. I've seen plenty of moments in the last six months alone of police and other civil servants doing many good deeds and actions towards the public. In one instance, a police officer had a 'dance off' with some teenagers. The teenagers were good; the cop, was better!

There are plenty of moments in which one or more persons in a car during a traffic stop tried to kill police. And those officers not only defended themselves but either killed/arrested the suspects. Each one of those is investigated, just as the incident in Hattiesburg, MS. They will go over the processes and information. Study what, if anything, went wrong and how to possibly fix it. There might not be a useful fix. That officers, even cautions ones, are still at risk of a dangerous encounter. That is part of the job.




_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/12/2015 4:43:42 AM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

BamaD, ther are a lot of people that care for those two cops the suspect will be detained prosecuted and more likely sentenced, there is a whole power structure that will care for them and their families in a more effective way than a news paper article even though they can't be back alive, I do not like violence and I'm on the side of those two officers.
About you I would actually be a little sympathetic with your concerns about self defence and gun control if you were a much worried for other costitutional rights when they are infringed. And if you don't get addressing the problem of police brutality will make the job easier, safer and probably more efficent for every law abaiding cop in your country than you are very shortsighted, if you really car for honest cops you should be advocating for the criminals in baltimore to be prosecuted in the harshest way, because not only they committed a very serious crime but doing this on duty created distrust in those officers that want to make a good and meaningfull job.

This after I pointed out three recent cases where from the outset I said the cops were wrong (Gardner, Balt, and NC) to head off these accusations. Also I have stood against any other erosion of Constitutional rights, I suspect you don't remember because of the lack of advocacy to do so.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to eulero83)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/12/2015 4:52:32 AM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Here, Bama. Proof that people care.

Here too.

Good


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/12/2015 5:23:06 AM   
eulero83


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Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

This after I pointed out three recent cases where from the outset I said the cops were wrong (Gardner, Balt, and NC) to head off these accusations. Also I have stood against any other erosion of Constitutional rights, I suspect you don't remember because of the lack of advocacy to do so.



no it was the polemic title

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Cops lives don't matter. - 5/12/2015 5:46:56 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

But what matters most, now that the suspects have been arrested, is making sure that they are brought to justice, without even a hint of wrong-doing any step of the way.



What should matter most is... Why...so many black men are killing either themselves or others. But whoever asks this question will be accused of racism... So the question is never asked

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 40
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