Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/13/2015 9:24:16 AM)


The Vatican said Wednesday that it had concluded a treaty to recognize Palestinian statehood, a symbolic but significant step that was bound to be welcomed by many Palestinians but was likely to cause deep concern for the Israeli government.
Formal recognition of a Palestinian state by the Vatican, which has deep religious interests in the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories that include Christian holy sites, lends a powerful signal of legitimacy to the efforts by the Palestinian Authority’s president, Mahmoud Abbas, to achieve statehood despite the long paralyzed Israeli-Palestinian peace process.
Israel has grown increasingly alarmed about the increased international acceptance of Palestine as a state since the United Nations upgraded the Palestinian delegation’s status in 2012 to that of a nonmember observer state. A number of European countries have also signaled their acceptance of Palestinian statehood.
Pope Francis, the leader of the world’s 1 billion Catholics, has long signaled his wish for a Palestinian state. For the past year, the Vatican had informally referred to the country as “state of Palestine,” in its yearbook as well as in its program for Francis’ 2014 visit to the Holy Land.
A statement from a joint commission of Vatican and Palestinian diplomatic officials, posted on the Vatican news website, said “the work of the Commission on the text of the agreement has been concluded,” and that it will be submitted for formal approval and for signing “in the near future.”
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/14/world/middleeast/vatican-to-recognize-palestinian-state-in-new-treaty.html?emc=edit_na_20150513



DesideriScuri -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/13/2015 12:22:56 PM)

Good.



KenDckey -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/13/2015 12:34:18 PM)

I have no problem with this. Diplomatic relations, I presume, would include at some point an exchange of ambassadors, thus putting the palestianians at odds with IS.



tweakabelle -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 1:53:47 AM)

This development is in addition to the 120+ nations (more than 2/3 of the world) that recognise Palestinian sovereignty and the inalienable right of the Palestinian people to their own State. It also follows Palestine joining a number of international bodies such as the International Criminal Court. Only Israel and the US present any serious opposition to a Palestinian State. Netanyahoo reminded us recently of his own intransigent opposition to a Palestinian State, a move that angered Israel's patron the US, which favours a Two State Solution (TSS) as part of an overall peace deal.

The far right Israeli Govt contains a number of parties and individuals who advocate annexation of the West Bank (or large swathes of it), a move that would make any TSS impossible. Current Israeli policies of settlements/colonies, ethnic cleansing and apartheid along with Israel's clear preference for continued expansion of the settlements/colonies over a peace deal seriously jeopardise the prospect of any viable Palestinian State ever emerging. It should be remembered that the settlers'/colonists' primary goal is the prevention of a Palestinian State as they constantly remind us.

These facts make it pretty clear that the people lacking a partner committed to peace in the region are the Palestinians.



HunterCA -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 10:24:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This development is in addition to the 120+ nations (more than 2/3 of the world) that recognise Palestinian sovereignty and the inalienable right of the Palestinian people to their own State. It also follows Palestine joining a number of international bodies such as the International Criminal Court. Only Israel and the US present any serious opposition to a Palestinian State. Netanyahoo reminded us recently of his own intransigent opposition to a Palestinian State, a move that angered Israel's patron the US, which favours a Two State Solution (TSS) as part of an overall peace deal.

The far right Israeli Govt contains a number of parties and individuals who advocate annexation of the West Bank (or large swathes of it), a move that would make any TSS impossible. Current Israeli policies of settlements/colonies, ethnic cleansing and apartheid along with Israel's clear preference for continued expansion of the settlements/colonies over a peace deal seriously jeopardise the prospect of any viable Palestinian State ever emerging. It should be remembered that the settlers'/colonists' primary goal is the prevention of a Palestinian State as they constantly remind us.

These facts make it pretty clear that the people lacking a partner committed to peace in the region are the Palestinians.



I think this is a pretty narrow propagandist view of the situation. A more enlightened view is very easy to find if one wishes to.

http://www.danielpipes.org/233/both-sides-of-their-mouths-arab-leaders-private-vs-public

Certainly the Loony left has been worked big time with the victimhood in this case. Yet, I note, Palestinians have been thrown out of Jordan, then Lebanon because of how they behave. Millions of square miles of land available in Arab states and not one offer for a State there, but little Isreal is a devil for not giving part of its land.

We have to remember what Golds Meyer said and not what 120 nations who want to tweak the US's nose say:

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/664790-we-can-forgive-the-arabs-for-killing-our-children-we





mnottertail -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 12:04:01 PM)

The rabid right has no idea why palestinians were expelled from Jordan.

Jordan is one of Americas best friends there, although we have treated them shabbily.



Sanity -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 12:31:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The rabid right has no idea why palestinians were expelled from Jordan.

Jordan is one of Americas best friends there, although we have treated them shabbily.


The right sounds very sensible and agreeable, even brilliant in comparison to the writing of certain individuals who cant help but try to demonize their fellow citizens with every utterance



HunterCA -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 12:43:20 PM)

http://middleeast.about.com/od/jordan/a/jordan-black-september.htm

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_expulsion_from_Kuwait

Kuwait too.



Aylee -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 1:27:03 PM)

So I guess construction will soon begin on the first Christian / Catholic church in "Palestine", complete with giant cross prominently displayed? Or would that hurt their feeeeelings?



HunterCA -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 2:44:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

So I guess construction will soon begin on the first Christian / Catholic church in "Palestine", complete with giant cross prominently displayed? Or would that hurt their feeeeelings?


It's actually against Sharia law to either construct a church or to maintain one. They only allow existing ones and only as long as they stand up without maintenance.



mnottertail -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 2:52:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The rabid right has no idea why palestinians were expelled from Jordan.

Jordan is one of Americas best friends there, although we have treated them shabbily.


The right sounds very sensible and agreeable, even brilliant in comparison to the writing of certain individuals who cant help but try to demonize their fellow citizens with every utterance




The demonization of true Americans is performed every day on these boards by rabid righties in rabid rightie troll clothing. However, as I point out, the rabid right has no idea why the Palestinians were ousted from Jordan, and subsequently returned there.




HunterCA -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 3:00:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The rabid right has no idea why palestinians were expelled from Jordan.

Jordan is one of Americas best friends there, although we have treated them shabbily.


The right sounds very sensible and agreeable, even brilliant in comparison to the writing of certain individuals who cant help but try to demonize their fellow citizens with every utterance




The demonization of true Americans is performed every day on these boards by rabid righties in rabid rightie troll clothing. However, as I point out, the rabid right has no idea why the Palestinians were ousted from Jordan, and subsequently returned there.




Are you saying Black September didn't happen or are you saying you know but you're not going to say? Because I see that mostly you tear things down with no citations rather than add information for discussion.



mnottertail -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 3:04:21 PM)

I am citing that you do not know why they were kicked out and subsequently let it. It obviously needs no citation, your not being able to speak upon the whole of the subject is citation enough. And no one has cited that we haven't treated them shabbily since the beginning of Hussein's rule in 1952.



Aylee -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 3:33:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

So I guess construction will soon begin on the first Christian / Catholic church in "Palestine", complete with giant cross prominently displayed? Or would that hurt their feeeeelings?


It's actually against Sharia law to either construct a church or to maintain one. They only allow existing ones and only as long as they stand up without maintenance.


Quoting Violet off of a Charlie Brown Christmas, "Don't you know a sarcasm when you hear it?" [:D]



PeonForHer -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 4:02:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

So I guess construction will soon begin on the first Christian / Catholic church in "Palestine", complete with giant cross prominently displayed? Or would that hurt their feeeeelings?


I think if I were a Palestinian, 'hurt feelings' would be of a totally different order to the ones we're used to here in Europe or the USA. I'd imagine: You get through the day without getting a limb blown off, you probably feel fine with the world. Besides, a church built especially to honour the Pope? Might, just might, be a place of sanctuary that the IDF would hesitate to target during the next conflict.



Aylee -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 4:32:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

So I guess construction will soon begin on the first Christian / Catholic church in "Palestine", complete with giant cross prominently displayed? Or would that hurt their feeeeelings?


I think if I were a Palestinian, 'hurt feelings' would be of a totally different order to the ones we're used to here in Europe or the USA. I'd imagine: You get through the day without getting a limb blown off, you probably feel fine with the world. Besides, a church built especially to honour the Pope? Might, just might, be a place of sanctuary that the IDF would hesitate to target during the next conflict.


If nothing is launched from it, then it will not be targeted. Unless you are suggesting that they SHOULD use such a thing to store and launch munitions.



Politesub53 -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 5:04:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

If nothing is launched from it, then it will not be targeted. Unless you are suggesting that they SHOULD use such a thing to store and launch munitions.


Utter bullshit, as proven by the shelling of UN compounds in Palestine last year.



Aylee -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 5:52:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

If nothing is launched from it, then it will not be targeted. Unless you are suggesting that they SHOULD use such a thing to store and launch munitions.


Utter bullshit, as proven by the shelling of UN compounds in Palestine last year.



The topic is the treaty between the Palestinians and the Vatican. The question I asked was about a church being built. Got anything to add? Or are you just trying to derail this?



tweakabelle -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 7:24:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

If nothing is launched from it, then it will not be targeted. Unless you are suggesting that they SHOULD use such a thing to store and launch munitions.


Utter bullshit, as proven by the shelling of UN compounds in Palestine last year.



The topic is the treaty between the Palestinians and the Vatican. The question I asked was about a church being built. Got anything to add? Or are you just trying to derail this?
If you were aware of the real situation of the Palestinian Christians rather than parroting Zionist propaganda claims, you would know that the first priority of Palestinian Christians' is ending the Occupation by Israel.

Palestinian Christians set out their views in a document called Kairos Palestine, in which they described the occupation as a "sin against God and humanity", called on others to support the Boycott, Divestment and economic Sanctions campaign (BDS) against the Occupation and its "apartheid laws" and affirmed the right of Palestinians to nonviolent resistance to the Occupation.
http://www.fosna.org/content/kairos-palestine-document-prayerful-call-palestinian-christians-end-occupation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Christians



PeonForHer -> RE: Vatican to Recognize Palestinian State in New Treaty (5/14/2015 7:29:11 PM)

FR

I could be wrong, but I have a tiny suspicion that some were not aware that there are in fact Christians in Palestine.



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