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RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 4:56:26 AM   
JVoV


Posts: 3664
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		I'm not sure how you can ascertain purpose or intent from the second picture.

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 5:00:51 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Considering the happenings of the past few months I would think it is reasonable to ascertain purpose... Don't you? In my area, Ferguson, they burned flags and through the news made it very clear the reason they did it.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 5:30:29 AM   
Oneechan


Posts: 50
Joined: 8/31/2012
Status: offline 		reading this thread gives me a headache.

Flying your national flag is a good thing to do, generally. Unless you're walking through enemy territory.
In your own country? it should be allowed anywhere at time for any reason, assuming it's not causing a disturbance (waving a flag around in a crowded bar might be a bit inconvenient)

at a school? Sure, why not. What logical reason could there be to not fly a flag, other than costs, i guess. If the government is paying schools to do it, then everyone should do it.

Anyone who is "intimidated" by a national flag being flown, clearly does not belong in that nation and should return where they came from. Americans wouldn't deny them the right to fly their own flag in their home country


< Message edited by Oneechan -- 5/19/2015 6:28:41 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 5:42:23 AM   
hot4bondage


Posts: 403
Joined: 7/29/2009
Status: offline 		You had me until that last sentence. What law do you think he's breaking?

(in reply to Oneechan)
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RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 6:28:20 AM   
Oneechan


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Joined: 8/31/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage

You had me until that last sentence. What law do you think he's breaking?

hmm, actually i'm wrong, it seems it isn't illegal. My knowledge of US law is inaccurate, my apologies

(in reply to hot4bondage)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 6:46:41 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I am not defending the school or advocating the desecration of our flag but I am commenting on the use of these two photos to make a point. One is trivial and the other is not... One has purpose the other does not... One is important the other is not. I doubt many in S. Carolina need a flag to be patriotic but many in the Ferguson's of this country feel they need a flag to make a statement. I would just bet the creators of our Constitution would be proud of that black man and their vision of government that allowed his demonstration... and not so much the circus over a flag.

Butch



< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/19/2015 6:57:49 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Oneechan)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:08:30 AM   
CreativeDominant


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Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am not defending the school or advocating the desecration of our flag but I am commenting on the use of these two photos to make a point. One is trivial and the other is not... One has purpose the other does not... One is important the other is not. I doubt many in S. Carolina need a flag to be patriotic but many in the Ferguson's of this country feel they need a flag to make a statement. I would just bet the creators of our Constitution would be proud of that black man and their vision of government that allowed his demonstration... and not so much the circus over a flag.

Butch


Would that be the same flag under which many of those blacks get money from those who are working, through welfare?

Would that be the same flag under which many of those same blacks gets preferential consideration for government contracts?

Would that be the same flag under which many of those same blacks can get...at the very least...medical treatment at almost any E. R. in the country?

See, bitch...while it may not be illegal and it certainly makes a statement, the statement they intend to send may not always be the one received. Just as Sykes pointed out in her example.

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:13:04 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am not defending the school or advocating the desecration of our flag but I am commenting on the use of these two photos to make a point. One is trivial and the other is not...

Butch



Only if one considers a soldier, giving their lives in service to the greater good to be "trivial". It also negates the feelings of the family members of that fallen service member.

Honestly, I'm more than a little shocked and just a little bit hurt by this, Butch.

I fly the Marine Corps Standard and the flag that draped my son's coffin any time I feel like it. Let someone bitch about and they might find themselves, swallowing teeth.



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 5/19/2015 7:15:13 AM >

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A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:19:12 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		How about the flag that many of them died for you in the Iraq war.

How about the same flag their great grandparents received the whip to their backs for their labors.

How about the same flag where they could not drink from the same water fountain as you and I.

How about the same flag where they can't drive down the street in their own towns without being pulled over and searched.

How about the same flag where hard working African Americans were denied jobs and promotions because of their color.

How about bitching about whites on welfare... whites using the ER's

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/19/2015 7:20:12 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:26:01 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How about the flag that many of them died for you in the Iraq war.

How about the same flag their great grandparents received the whip to their backs for their labors.

How about the same flag where they could not drink form the same water fountain as you and I.

How about the same flag where they can't drive down the street in their own towns without being pulled over and searched.

How about the same flag where hard working African Americans were denied jobs and promotions because of their color.

How about bitching about whites on welfare... whites using the ER's

Butch



How about my son (non-white) who referred to himself as "mixed" or "mutt" who died under that flag? Who understood that the flag stands for principles to which we aspire; not just a history that has moments that we can't be proud of?

How about that same, decorated Marine who died in a place that his country won't even acknowledge we were in? Was it because of his color? No. It was because sometimes war is a dirty, fucked-up business but someone has to do it so the people who just weren't made to be soldiers (no judging; just fact) and the chicken hawks (plenty of judging) can sit in their comfortable chairs and piss all over the same service that affords them the right to bitch about it?

How about acknowledging that this country has good people that serve for no other reason than that they feel it is the right thing to do and skin color be damned?

How about the (people I feel even worse for) ones who didn't want to serve but answered their country's call?

Butch, I like you and I have to say that this seeming callousness, coming from you, is a bit of a surprise. I've always seen you as a guy that I might not always agree with but you've always seemed to be compassionate. I'm not seeing that here, when it comes to how you view the service men and women in this country.



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 5/19/2015 7:28:45 AM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:27:53 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yes it is trivial...I don't need to drive around with flags in the back of my truck to honor the death of my brother in war... I don't need to drive around with flags in my truck to honor my father...brothers... uncles...and cousins that fought in war... I certainly don't need to drive around with flags in my truck to honor my own service to my country.

Yes there are times for the flying of flags for those very honors but every day to school is not necessarily one of them and it IS trivial in comparison to the other image.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:30:05 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes it is trivial...I don't need to drive around with flags in the back of my truck to honor the death of my brother in war... I don't need to drive around with flags in my truck to honor my father...brothers... uncles...and cousins that fought in war... I certainly don't need to drive around with flags in my truck to honor my own service to my country.

Yes there are times for the flying of flags for those very honors but every day to school is not necessarily one of them and it IS trivial in comparison to the other image.

Butch



So ... you're the arbiter of other peoples' grief and grieving process, now? Interesting.



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:35:21 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Michael I am sorry that you see it as callousness... and I find it difficult to defend the actions of the school or the black man... but I do find it necessary to point out the reasons and the rights that you... I...and your son fought for... I am proud of your son that he should give his life for a country that allows such demonstrations... It is important for me to think I also defended that right...and it pisses me off when people trivialize that right... Please understand where I am coming from here. I may be wrong but I am sincere.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/19/2015 7:38:13 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:38:46 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

How about the flag that many of them died for you in the Iraq war.

How about the same flag their great grandparents received the whip to their backs for their labors.

How about the same flag where they could not drink from the same water fountain as you and I.

How about the same flag where they can't drive down the street in their own towns without being pulled over and searched.

How about the same flag where hard working African Americans were denied jobs and promotions because of their color.

How about bitching about whites on welfare... whites using the ER's

Butch


Those kids dont look old enough to have experienced anything like that

I think the behavior is more the product of Black Liberation Theology, "spiritual advisers" teaching hate and division. Using some of the things you mention from the past, some other really ugly things you did not mention, and some made up things to keep the hate alive

How does it help. What is the intention behind being photographed walking on an American flag

It just causes further hate and division. You stand up for jihadists who are offended Butch, then slam Americans who are similarly offended

Youre not real consistent in your thinking sometimes

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:40:40 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		It is not that the school is right... but it is wrong to say the black man is wrong and has no right to use the flag to express his feelings.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:43:34 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Sanity... he is not the only one to do that...and again I am not saying it was smart...or I am going to go out and stomp on a flag... but what his demonstration represents is far closer to what i fought for then the school incident.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:46:01 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It is not that the school is right... but it is wrong to say the black man is wrong and has no right to use the flag to express his feelings.

Butch


He has every right to express the hate that he is taught. I have every right to observe his behavior and wonder how much of his life will be spent in prison blaming the white man for his predicament

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:46:40 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Michael I am sorry that you see it as callousness... and I find it difficult to defend the actions of the school or the black man... but I do find it necessary to point out the reasons and the rights that you... I...and your son fought for... I am proud of your son that he should give his life for a country that allows such demonstrations... It is important for me to think I also defended that right...and it pisses me off when people trivialize that right... Please understand where I am coming from here. I may be wrong but I am sincere.

Butch



Maybe I did misunderstand but if I did, it was based upon the words you typed. You called the first demonstration in the first photo "trivial".

Who are you or I to decide how someone else is allowed to grieve their loss, especially when their chosen method of grieving is not only legal but should be encouraged? That is hubris, in the extremis.

I NEVER said the second photo was "wrong" or shouldn't be allowed. I acknowledge that disrespecting a flag is one of the rights that we fought for.

I get it and I agree with the general tone of your feeling on that but you really do seem to be dismissive of the sacrifice of the people that served under that flag so that black people would no longer be slaves.

You seem to be pissing all over the graves of people that fought under that flag in the hopes that lynchings would eventually stop; that women would eventually get the vote; that black people could drink out of the same drinking fountains as white people; so that a little girl in Abalama could go to a school closer to where she lived with better teachers.

I understand and agree with a lot of the things that you advocate but your dismissal of the sacrifices that made the road possible and your negation of the grief of those, left behind does strike me as callous and even mean-spirited.



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 5/19/2015 7:48:49 AM >

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:51:28 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Sanity you most likely know my take on the riots in Ferguson... I have expressed them and taken the heat for them often here on the boards. But just like freedom of speech if you deny it once you can deny it always... same with the desecration of the flag. Just as I called the Texas bunch assholes I call the black kid an asshole...but I will defend his right to do it... And in this case right or wrong on his part it is important that many blacks feel the need to do it.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Flag Etiquette - 5/19/2015 7:52:50 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		It is only trivial in comparison to the importance of defending rights we fought and died for. Remember I am only comparing the two photos that the op used to make his point...And what in your mind was his point... perhaps that is where we find the misunderstanding.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/19/2015 7:54:58 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 80
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