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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/26/2015 8:56:47 PM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA
Okay guys, I'm sure you've seen me do my share of idiot liberal bashing. I have nothing against that. But, JVoV has been straight up all along. He doesn't try and be tricky. He has a view and he states it. He disagrees with us, I don't care. He does it politely and actually makes good points. Sorry to be a police guy.


This has nothing to do with how he discusses things (and I agree, he's one of the few that will actually discuss things). But, self-imposed blinders are going to be called out.



Part of why I'm here discussing politics with you guys & gals is to test those blinders. So by all means, call them out.

I may have my own personal agenda when it comes to being able to walk down the aisle, but I trust the Supreme Court to make that happen a helluva lot more than I do politicians. Eventually, anyway.


Okay how about this. In something like 1998 congress was looking at modifying the clean water act. Newt Gingrich wanted to add a cost to benefit clause to the act. Bill Clinton responded by lining up a couple of dozen school busses with kids in them along the Patomic River and saying on camera that Newt wanted to poison these kids. The revised clean water act passed without a cost to benefit clause.

A couple of years later, something like 2001, I was the district engineer for a water agency. I ran six sewage treatment plants and eight water treatment plants plus all of the apurtanent infrastructure. We had aquired the infrastructure in one little town that a logging company has built. The water treatment plant had been serving water to the community for something like seventy years and everyone was fine.

But, the water pipeline in the town were small diameter. We really couldn't supply adequate flows and pressure. So we save our money and finally put together a project to replace the pipes. Along came the no cost to benefit analysis new clean water act and suddenly their treatment plant was out of EPA compliance. So, we diverted all of the saved money to upgrade a plant that had served well for years and years to meet new compliance criteria. Half way through the project the local hotel caught on fire and and burned three people to death because the local fire agency couldnt get enough water or pressure through the pipes to put the hotel blaze out.

Stupid. Criminally stupid in my mind. I can still see the news cast of Clinton lining up little children and saying Newts proposal would poisen them all along side the image of the burnt hotel where three people burnt to death.

I have absolutely no problem with a politician saying this is just too much to spent, we have enough despite sound bites. I actually applaud a politician who will take that stance despite a sound bite hit.

< Message edited by HunterCA -- 5/26/2015 8:59:31 PM >

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/26/2015 9:44:00 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3660
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Status: offline 		Bill & Newt. Fun times.

I swear there was a Supreme Court case that said Congress couldn't laws on the states without providing funding. The exact case escapes me.

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/26/2015 9:52:09 PM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Bill & Newt. Fun times.

I swear there was a Supreme Court case that said Congress couldn't laws on the states without providing funding. The exact case escapes me.



Oh fuck JVoV, no. Currently I'm paying for a study on fresh water clam osmotic resperation in California because there seems to be a problem on the Great Lakes and the EPA is right on top of it. That concept is as you state, in practice, simple and pretty unrealistic. I can't disabuse you enough of the notion.

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/26/2015 10:23:11 PM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Bill & Newt. Fun times.

I swear there was a Supreme Court case that said Congress couldn't laws on the states without providing funding. The exact case escapes me.


JVoV, the enormity of the lack of understanding in this post has sent me off. I really don't hold your ignorance against you. But if I respond now ill use words and phrases I'll regret. So, I'll respond tomorrow.

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/26/2015 11:28:15 PM   
JVoV


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Status: offline 		Lol I'm looking for it still. It was one of the gun control bills, requiring background checks.

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 3:37:37 AM   
bounty44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
meanwhile, I recently saw frank luntz saying (and with research showing) that marco Rubio is likely the best of the speakers amongst the republican candidates.


We don't need a good speaker. Candidate Obama was a great orator. We need a uniter, regardless of oration skills.



well I don't disagree with that at all...and that's an excellent point to bring up in retort to frank luntz and to be wary of when we listen to Rubio.

but that said, as to your "uniter" thought---luntz's research comes from his focus group work, which includes participants from all of the political spectrum. so what he is saying is, Rubio is even resonating with the democrats, moderates and independents.

ive never looked at Obama as a great orator, and I half wonder how much of that moniker is gratuitous hype. I cant stand listening to the guy (and couldn't either as a candidate), and not just because of the content of his message.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 5/27/2015 3:43:21 AM >

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 6:17:25 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

No women in the Senate voted against the act. In fact, it was cosponsored by all but one of them.

Which proves nothing.



Not to mention isn't true according to this link.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/03/violence-against-women-act-reauthorization-house-senate-votes

But I can understand why they would want it to look like it's all men, it seems to be sop to paint the right as a bunch of bitter old white men who are at war with women, immigrants, blacks and anyone else the left thinks is gullible enough to buy their bullshit.




Our legislative branch, called Congress as a whole, is made up of two bodies. These are the House of Representatives and the Senate.

So with that knowledge, please explain how the statement "No women in the Senate voted against VAWA" is a lie.



I stand corrected, I thought Lindsey was a girl. Sorry bout that.

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 6:46:20 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
I'm sure he's mostly voted along party lines, but as the Senator from Florida, he voted against HR 15 Disaster Relief Appropriations Act, 2013, for Hurricane Sandy relief. I worry that will bite us in the ass one day, when a Category5 decides to visit Disney World.
He also voted against the Employment NonDiscrimination Act of 2013. Though that's been proposed in every Congress since the 90's.


Why did he vote against those two bills, or do you not care why?


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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 6:51:32 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA
Okay guys, I'm sure you've seen me do my share of idiot liberal bashing. I have nothing against that. But, JVoV has been straight up all along. He doesn't try and be tricky. He has a view and he states it. He disagrees with us, I don't care. He does it politely and actually makes good points. Sorry to be a police guy.

This has nothing to do with how he discusses things (and I agree, he's one of the few that will actually discuss things). But, self-imposed blinders are going to be called out.

Part of why I'm here discussing politics with you guys & gals is to test those blinders. So by all means, call them out.
I may have my own personal agenda when it comes to being able to walk down the aisle, but I trust the Supreme Court to make that happen a helluva lot more than I do politicians. Eventually, anyway.


Sadly, that's probably true. But, I fall more along the lines of "get government out of marriage." Let two consenting adults get married if they want to. Obviously, there will need to be a contract to resolve disputes, but that's about it.

And, I will continue to call them out (as I expect others to do with me and any I may have).


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 7:00:07 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44
ive never looked at Obama as a great orator, and I half wonder how much of that moniker is gratuitous hype. I cant stand listening to the guy (and couldn't either as a candidate), and not just because of the content of his message.


I didn't like the guy as a speaker, either, but that was more because of what he said. He does have a way of speaking (reading from the teleprompter, anyway) that can get people moving. He's definitely a better speaker than Bush 43.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 7:05:29 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/elections-2016/marco-rubio/article22361424.html

Republican presidential candidate Marco Rubio warned in an interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network published online Tuesday that Christianity faces a “real and present danger” from same-sex marriage supporters who cast opponents as prejudiced.

“We are at the water’s edge of the argument that mainstream Christian teaching is hate speech, because today we’ve reached the point in our society where if you do not support same-sex marriage, you are labeled a homophobe and a hater,” Rubio told David Brody, CBN News’ chief political correspondent.

“So what’s the next step after that? After they’re done going after individuals, the next step is to argue that the teachings of mainstream Christianity, the catechism of the Catholic Church, is hate speech,” the Florida senator continued. “And that’s a real and present danger."
His remarks were widely disseminated by Right Wing Watch, part of the liberal group People For the American Way, which suggested Rubio called gay rights a “real and present danger” — though the senator was referring to people who label Christians “haters.”

Rubio and other 2016 GOP presidential hopefuls have struggled with rapidly shifting public opinion in favor of same-sex marriage. They don’t want to turn off younger voters, including Republicans, who favor the unions, but also risk upsetting the GOP’s evangelical Christian base if they don’t advocate for traditional marriage between one man and one woman.

In an interview with Brody last week, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush called traditional marriage “a sacrament” and, like Rubio, said he doesn’t believe there’s a constitutional right to same-sex marriage. The U.S. Supreme Court is expected to rule on that question this summer.

“What’s interesting is, four years ago, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton had the same view that I just expressed to you,” Bush told Brody. “It’s thousands of years of culture and history just being changed at warp speed. It’s hard to fathom why it is this way.”

Both Rubio and Bush are practicing Roman Catholics who have said legalizing same-sex marriage should be decided on a state-by-state marriage. Rubio has run counter to some social conservatives by saying sexual orientation is something people are born with.

Nationwide, polls show a majority of Americans approve of same-sex marriage. A Washington Post-ABC News poll released last month found that a record high 61 percent supported same-sex marriage. Gay marriage is legal in 37 states, including Florida, and the District of Columbia.

Miami Herald staff writer Steve Rothaus contributed to this report.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/elections-2016/marco-rubio/article22361424.html#storylink=cpy

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 7:51:30 AM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/elections-2016/marco-rubio/article22361424.html

Republican presidential candidate Marco Rubio warned in an interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network published online Tuesday that Christianity faces a “real and present danger” from same-sex marriage supporters who cast opponents as prejudiced.

“We are at the water’s edge of the argument that mainstream Christian teaching is hate speech, because today we’ve reached the point in our society where if you do not support same-sex marriage, you are labeled a homophobe and a hater,” Rubio told David Brody, CBN News’ chief political correspondent.

“So what’s the next step after that? After they’re done going after individuals, the next step is to argue that the teachings of mainstream Christianity, the catechism of the Catholic Church, is hate speech,” the Florida senator continued. “And that’s a real and present danger."
His remarks were widely disseminated by Right Wing Watch, part of the liberal group People For the American Way, which suggested Rubio called gay rights a “real and present danger” — though the senator was referring to people who label Christians “haters.”

Rubio and other 2016 GOP presidential hopefuls have struggled with rapidly shifting public opinion in favor of same-sex marriage. They don’t want to turn off younger voters, including Republicans, who favor the unions, but also risk upsetting the GOP’s evangelical Christian base if they don’t advocate for traditional marriage between one man and one woman.

In an interview with Brody last week, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush called traditional marriage “a sacrament” and, like Rubio, said he doesn’t believe there’s a constitutional right to same-sex marriage. The U.S. Supreme Court is expected to rule on that question this summer.

“What’s interesting is, four years ago, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton had the same view that I just expressed to you,” Bush told Brody. “It’s thousands of years of culture and history just being changed at warp speed. It’s hard to fathom why it is this way.”

Both Rubio and Bush are practicing Roman Catholics who have said legalizing same-sex marriage should be decided on a state-by-state marriage. Rubio has run counter to some social conservatives by saying sexual orientation is something people are born with.

Nationwide, polls show a majority of Americans approve of same-sex marriage. A Washington Post-ABC News poll released last month found that a record high 61 percent supported same-sex marriage. Gay marriage is legal in 37 states, including Florida, and the District of Columbia.

Miami Herald staff writer Steve Rothaus contributed to this report.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/elections-2016/marco-rubio/article22361424.html#storylink=cpy



Then Rubio would be correct:

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/preacher-arrested-for-calling-homosexuality-a-sin.html

http://www.christianheadlines.com/columnists/al-mohler/criminalizing-christianity-swedens-hate-speech-law-1277601.html

http://culturecampaign.blogspot.com/2007/12/pastor-found-guilty-of-hate-crime.html

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 11:05:03 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Rubio would be incorrect. Oh, wait thats right, hes a foreigner too!!!!

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 12:03:07 PM   
Sanity


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How does his unbearable art persist?

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 12:15:38 PM   
mnottertail


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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 2:43:51 PM   
JVoV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


Then Rubio would be correct:

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/preacher-arrested-for-calling-homosexuality-a-sin.html

http://www.christianheadlines.com/columnists/al-mohler/criminalizing-christianity-swedens-hate-speech-law-1277601.html

http://culturecampaign.blogspot.com/2007/12/pastor-found-guilty-of-hate-crime.html


None of these articles are about events in the US.

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 3:06:04 PM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


Then Rubio would be correct:

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/preacher-arrested-for-calling-homosexuality-a-sin.html

http://www.christianheadlines.com/columnists/al-mohler/criminalizing-christianity-swedens-hate-speech-law-1277601.html

http://culturecampaign.blogspot.com/2007/12/pastor-found-guilty-of-hate-crime.html


None of these articles are about events in the US.



But didn't Rubio use future tense. I was pointing out that what he was speaking about has occurred elsewhere so it shouldn't be ignored here.

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 3:41:51 PM   
JVoV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


But didn't Rubio use future tense. I was pointing out that what he was speaking about has occurred elsewhere so it shouldn't be ignored here.


Lots of things happen in other places that should never be ignored here.

like this

< Message edited by JVoV -- 5/27/2015 3:54:03 PM >

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 6:02:45 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3660
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Bill & Newt. Fun times.

I swear there was a Supreme Court case that said Congress couldn't laws on the states without providing funding. The exact case escapes me.


JVoV, the enormity of the lack of understanding in this post has sent me off. I really don't hold your ignorance against you. But if I respond now ill use words and phrases I'll regret. So, I'll respond tomorrow.


Ok, found it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printz_v._United_States

Finally, the majority cited previous rulings by the Supreme Court in similar situations. In New York v. United States, the Court invalidated a provision in a bill that "coerced" states to comply with a federal radioactive waste-disposal regime, holding "[t]he Federal Government may not compel the States to enact or administer a federal regulatory program". New York v. United States, 505 U.S. 144, 188 (1992).

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RE: Who Is Afraid Of Marco Rubio - 5/27/2015 6:43:33 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
Bill & Newt. Fun times.
I swear there was a Supreme Court case that said Congress couldn't laws on the states without providing funding. The exact case escapes me.

JVoV, the enormity of the lack of understanding in this post has sent me off. I really don't hold your ignorance against you. But if I respond now ill use words and phrases I'll regret. So, I'll respond tomorrow.

Ok, found it.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printz_v._United_States
Finally, the majority cited previous rulings by the Supreme Court in similar situations. In New York v. United States, the Court invalidated a provision in a bill that "coerced" states to comply with a federal radioactive waste-disposal regime, holding "[t]he Federal Government may not compel the States to enact or administer a federal regulatory program". New York v. United States, 505 U.S. 144, 188 (1992).


Neither the Printz nor the New York decision had anything to do with the Federal Government not funding a law passed to a State.

From the NY Case:
    quote:

    The third incentive, requiring states to "take title" and assume liability for waste generated within their borders if they failed to comply, was held to be impermissibly coercive and a threat to state sovereignty, thereby violating the Tenth Amendment.


The first two incentives were about money, but they were about surcharges a State could levy on another State in certain situations, and those were found to be Constitutional.

These were probably not the cases you were looking for.

One of my fellow HS alumni is a School Superintendent. According to him, the cost of the No Child Left Behind Act was not fully funded by the Fed's. According to him, if he were to stop all the mandated programs and give up the funding, his budget would actually improve. For the record, he's quite left leaning politically.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 100
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