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ORIGINAL: Sanity


Ma Bell was a product of government control...

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

2015, the median income, including all of the poorest areas, after the economic downturn, salary is $96,000.

http://www1.salary.com/certified-midwife-Salary.html

So the economic downturn has had an affect here on this profession.

I have no idea what the salaries are for a nurse, midwife etc in England. All I know is that my Sister earns around £45,000.

In terms of the contrast between the systems, I just googled in American opinions of the NHS, and every link of the first page was extremely complimentary on the behalf of Americans who had used our system.

Here's an example:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/an-american-uses-britain-nhs-2015-1?r=US

I don't know why I'm arguing this because quite frankly I don't care which is the best system.

Okay read your link. Some notes. He says it was all free but in the US people pay $8,000ish. He's obviously not counting the taxes he pays for the system that we do not pay. So, he doesn't understand what he's talking about in that regard. I posted something yesterday that shows France takes 8% of a salary for medical. It seems to me that is a wash. Actually, I pay roughly $6,000 a year for health care and if they took 8% of my salary it would be substantially more. How much more I won't say in this forum but leave it at substantially. So as a percentage, I pay a much lower percentage.

The other note is about waitin in emergency rooms. Here, emergency rooms are full, always, with illigal aliens using them for stuff like colds. If you had 16,000,000 people using your emergency rooms for general practice type going to see the doctor, I'd guess your system would colaspe. But, on the other hand he mentions since he has citizenship there he is entitled to use the emergency room. I wonder if you would even allow 16,000,000 illigals into your system and if you did, or didn't, how your system would actually compare to ours.

So, that problems stems from another source. And it does point out he had to wait six weeks to see a specialist. Where I've recounted here where I went from primary care physician all the way through surgery in three weeks.

Also, I'd like to recount that the guy thought he was loosing his hearing when he was given an appointment six weeks out. I'll recount that once, in my mid 30's I was whacked by a bad bounding baseball directly on the ear. I lost hearing and blood was dribbling from my ear. I was seen at the emergency room in about two minutes and was given an appointment with a specialist the next day.

So, my personal experience is that I have been better served here than he was there, despite 16,000,000 illigals using the system without paying into the system.

I think he concluded that the English system costs somewhere around $3,500 per head and the US system $8,000 - taxes and the like included.

He is comparing the same treatment in the two systems (for example, he wasn't given a crack round the head with a baseball bat), and oddly enough every American on the first page I googled was wary of potential bureaucracy and a sub-standard service beforehand, but left the doors of the NHS thinking that on balance it was the better system of the two.

Either the game is rigged and someone is making sure that the positive experiences of the NHS get on the first page, or it's time to reconsider a touch.

After all, these are Americans who have actually used the NHS.

And, yet, the only fault he found with our system is that we get to 84% of emergency room patients within a time frame while you get to...what...95%. And you haven't discussed with me yet if a person in your country illigally can walk into an emergency room and expect treatment. What your guy said was he was allowed to use it because he was a citizen. Take a porportional share of illigals based on our two populations. First, would they get medical treatment under your system and second, would your system perform as well?

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

2015, the median income, including all of the poorest areas, after the economic downturn, salary is $96,000.

http://www1.salary.com/certified-midwife-Salary.html

So the economic downturn has had an affect here on this profession.

I have no idea what the salaries are for a nurse, midwife etc in England. All I know is that my Sister earns around £45,000.

In terms of the contrast between the systems, I just googled in American opinions of the NHS, and every link of the first page was extremely complimentary on the behalf of Americans who had used our system.

Here's an example:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/an-american-uses-britain-nhs-2015-1?r=US

I don't know why I'm arguing this because quite frankly I don't care which is the best system.

Okay read your link. Some notes. He says it was all free but in the US people pay $8,000ish. He's obviously not counting the taxes he pays for the system that we do not pay. So, he doesn't understand what he's talking about in that regard. I posted something yesterday that shows France takes 8% of a salary for medical. It seems to me that is a wash. Actually, I pay roughly $6,000 a year for health care and if they took 8% of my salary it would be substantially more. How much more I won't say in this forum but leave it at substantially. So as a percentage, I pay a much lower percentage.

The other note is about waitin in emergency rooms. Here, emergency rooms are full, always, with illigal aliens using them for stuff like colds. If you had 16,000,000 people using your emergency rooms for general practice type going to see the doctor, I'd guess your system would colaspe. But, on the other hand he mentions since he has citizenship there he is entitled to use the emergency room. I wonder if you would even allow 16,000,000 illigals into your system and if you did, or didn't, how your system would actually compare to ours.

So, that problems stems from another source. And it does point out he had to wait six weeks to see a specialist. Where I've recounted here where I went from primary care physician all the way through surgery in three weeks.

Also, I'd like to recount that the guy thought he was loosing his hearing when he was given an appointment six weeks out. I'll recount that once, in my mid 30's I was whacked by a bad bounding baseball directly on the ear. I lost hearing and blood was dribbling from my ear. I was seen at the emergency room in about two minutes and was given an appointment with a specialist the next day.

So, my personal experience is that I have been better served here than he was there, despite 16,000,000 illigals using the system without paying into the system.

I think he concluded that the English system costs somewhere around $3,500 per head and the US system $8,000 - taxes and the like included.

He is comparing the same treatment in the two systems (for example, he wasn't given a crack round the head with a baseball bat), and oddly enough every American on the first page I googled was wary of potential bureaucracy and a sub-standard service beforehand, but left the doors of the NHS thinking that on balance it was the better system of the two.

Either the game is rigged and someone is making sure that the positive experiences of the NHS get on the first page, or it's time to reconsider a touch.

After all, these are Americans who have actually used the NHS.

And, yet, the only fault he found with our system is that we get to 84% of emergency room patients within a time frame while you get to...what...95%. And you haven't discussed with me yet if a person in your country illigally can walk into an emergency room and expect treatment. What your guy said was he was allowed to use it because he was a citizen. Take a porportional share of illigals based on our two populations. First, would they get medical treatment under your system and second, would your system perform as well?

I think he mentioned a few other points, such as more bureaucracy in the United States system, a much faster service here, i.e. being seen at your appointment time rather than waiting, and more cost effective here.

In terms of 'illegals', my understanding is that it was free for illegal immigrants to use the NHS up until very recently, say 2013/14; and now they have to pay a small fee.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA


The thing I posted said that the French took 8% of their salary off the top for health care. I just took 8% of my salary and compared the dollar for dollar. It was the same. So maybe my salary is twice what they make in France if you say I'm paying double. That seems reasonable to me since it's well known that workers in socialist systems aren't as productive.

I said the percentage of GDP was double...... You also said earlier you paid half of the figure the French pay. 8% is still 8% whatever currency you use.

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Your post #105
Oh ya...you've been a big help. Your stated facts are wrong, but you've shown an interest in defending them. I'd guess just because an employer paid, pretax dollars, health care plan that is fantastic implies the taxes you pay don't ewual that. I can look it up again and, but I posted a link about France this morning where they paid, if I remember correctly, 8% of their salary, obviously not pretax dollars, for health care which covered 70% of their expenses. The rest was out of pocket. At my employ, I pay half that, just my personal experience, and my last operation, docs, hospital, meds, cost me $300 out of pocket.

Do you really have that much trouble understanding. I said I paid half of the French 8% of their salary for much better service and hugely lower deductible. Meaning about 4% of my salary and I admitted I may make twice the average French salary. Where did I mention a dollar amount?

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

After all, these are Americans who have actually used the NHS.

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ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

After all, these are Americans who have actually used the NHS.

Personally, I am very divided on this issue, so I can't really offer any debate.

But this particular comment mirrors my own experience-in that I can say the same about foreigners experiences with our healthcare system. My work involves me coming into regular contact with a lot of people from other nations. I have had discussions about healthcare with people from France, Belgium, Germany, Ukraine, Romania, etc. (but not the UK, I rarely run into anyone from there). And I can only think of one time that a European voiced a preference for the healthcare system they had before they came here. In fact, most of them bemoan the lack of preventive care they received, and blame that for the some of the health issues they now experience as adults.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA


Not to use you as a foil, as this was a good and reasonable post. But...but, that's against every study PS has!

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA


Not to use you as a foil, as this was a good and reasonable post. But...but, that's against every study PS has!

You are a fucking liar...... The studies we were debating were about costs.

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Havel Wolf, member of the Seattle Audubon Society says “The Communist Party USA’s environmental program “presents a viable plan to carry out on the long march to socialism.” --1998

Gus Hall, National chairman of the Communist Party, USA in 1972. “Human society cannot basically stop the destruction of the environment under capitalism. Socialism is the only structure that makes it possible.”

Christine Stewart, Canadian Environment Minister said, “No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits [...] Climate change provides the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world.”

Louis Proyect, of Columbia University, “The answer to global warming is in the abolition of private property and production for human need. A socialist world would place an enormous priority on alternative energy sources. This is what ecologically-minded socialists have been exploring for quite some time now.”


http://www.conservapedia.com/Socialism_and_global_warming

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Its from conservapedia, its like staring down an outhouse of factlessness. It is shit.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

And it's the little anti-social geeks nobody wants to be around. They all get together in the garage, smoke pot and talk shit about how they're going to bring the man down. [sm=argue.gif]

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

And it's the little anti-social geeks nobody wants to be around. They all get together in the garage, smoke pot and talk shit about how they're going to bring the man down. [sm=argue.gif]

I really dont care what you and your liddle fwends do on your own time...
bless your heart....

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

And it's the little anti-social geeks nobody wants to be around. They all get together in the garage, smoke pot and talk shit about how they're going to bring the man down. [sm=argue.gif]

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Venezuelan farmers ordered to hand over produce to state

As Venezuela's food shortages worsen, the president of the country's Food Industry Chamber has said that authorities ordered producers of milk, pasta, oil, rice, sugar and flour to supply their products to the state stores

[img]http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03383/ven_3383056b.jpg[/img]

Venezuela's embattled government has taken the drastic step of forcing food producers to sell their produce to the state, in a bid to counter the ever-worsening shortages.

Farmers and manufacturers who produce milk, pasta, oil, rice, sugar and flour have been told to supply between 30 per cent and 100 per cent of their products to the state stores. Shortages, rationing and queues outside supermarkets have become a way of life for Venezuelans, as their isolated country battles against rigid currency controls and a shortage of US dollars – making it difficult for Venezuelans to find imported goods. ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/11754156/Venezuelan-farmers-ordered-to-hand-over-produce-to-state.html