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RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/6/2015 9:19:01 AM   
HoneyBears


Posts: 337
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dullfin

Tumbler's analysis of what stimulates the female is depressing for us males, especially us who want to be femdommed, but probably accurate for all that. So, the Stepford Husband role is what awaits us then. Be nice and vanilla outside the home, do all the chores inside the home, pamper the Domme in every way, and maybe, just maybe, but only if you are very very good, for a very, very long time (I'm talking years here), you just might get a tap on the bottom with the back of a hair brush, followed by a 'are we finished now?' Ahhh, I see it. That's why there is such a market for porn, and professional services - and always has been. The internet hasn't changed the fundamentals, just offered new ways of servicing the market.

Random musings and speculation are now characterized as analyses, I see.

dullfin, your description of the role a male sub fills is a very narrow one that would fit a small minority.
A domme who already has a primary doesn't have much need or use for a sexual relationship with her other subs.
She can dominate and Top them without sex ever entering into the picture, and if her pressing need is for service, then that is up to her.

You cannot expect a man who presents himself as a service sub to be entitled to get any of his mistress's goodies.
That is outright deception on his part. If she wants to own a sex slave (other than just an oral slave), then he would need to have some studdly qualifications.
Do you?
Even if you think you do, that does not mean your mistress would find you sexually attractive.
Regardless, bottoming for your kink gratification or having your fetishes fulfilled is not a given either unless you hire a provider and chances are she is not looking to have much of a personal relationship with you, if any.

I have a live-in primary partner who meets all my intimacy needs, as well as my D/s needs.
If I wanted a secondary sub, it would not be a sexual arrangement.
Lifestyle dommes do not stay available for very long, if they can help it.
Unfortunately, the quantity is there, but it is quality which is lacking dearly in partnership-worthy and mate-worthy male submissives.

A full-fledged relationship with a domme takes a lot more than shaking your backside or running around her place acting like a houseboy, maid, butler, or some other species of simpering, kink-crazed fool.

_____________________________

"The most precious possession that ever comes to a man in this world is a woman's heart."-- J.G. Holland

(in reply to dullfin)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/6/2015 9:21:30 AM   
Tumbler


Posts: 45
Joined: 9/15/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dullfin
How far is it between Venus and Mars,anyway?) hits the spot.


This whole thread is speculation, at best - but I do agree that John Gray's book was enlightening, for me, in that it helped me to realize that the entire way many women think and behave, is entirely different than the way men think and behave.

For example, you seem to understand that which others here can only attribute to horny net geeks' behavior, is basically "male behavior" throughout the ages.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dullfin
For the average male, simple visual stimulation in whatever sexual context works every time, is endlessly watchable.

I understand you and agree.

For example, I could watch an hour long video of [Mod removed link to for cautionary reasons.]a bound clothed woman just struggling or of a [Link removed for cautionary reasons.] kneeling man worshipping a relaxed lady's feet for 30 minutes straight, and never get bored.

I need no more plot than a simple visual to maintain my interest (where, mentally, I ACTIVELY take upon the role I want, by teleporting myself into the movie as an ACTION FIGURE of my choice.

While I must always disclaim that speaking on behalf of others is fraught with peril, I would think most ladies require more of a "plot" to stoke their interest, and, I wonder, if they're more PASSIVE in that they might require the PLOT to provide more of the titillation than we men do?

Come to think of it, since porn movies aren't generally in the "Great Gatsby" category when it comes to plot, that one difference could explain a LOT about why most men (I believe) probably enjoy porn far more than most women do.

Perhaps the male:female disconnect is simply that we're not looking for a great plot. For me, I don't even want a plot in a porn film.

It just has to be believable to me in order to be "realistic" (as previously defined) where I can mentally insert myself into the role I prefer in the movie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dullfin
Maybe sufficiently so as to seduce enough men drift into paying for it - if the promise is of more and better. There must be a payback down the line for those producing the material and posting it.

I have to agree with you that SOMEBODY must be paying money to those millions of porn sites, but it's certainly not me (at least not directly). Maybe I'm a head count, so that they get paid by their advertisers, but, as noted already, I almost never see advertisements or popups because I block them on sight using a variety of methods.

While I'm still blocking redirects, particularly obnoxious (but very easy to block) are those fake chat sessions from "babes" who start off with text-speak what'sup stuff, and then, if you don't answer the robot, they start calling you a "dumb fuck" for ignoring them (which I would find funny if I were still to see them - but I think I've blocked them all long ago).

The only way I can see the porn sites making money, offhand, are:
1. They are trying to sell you their "better" porn?
2. They are being paid to shill the Kink.com & Queensnake one-minute trailers for production-porn sites?
3. They are paid by advertisers for hits?
4. They are paid by criminals for malware infections?
5. They are paid by other sites for redirecting you to them?
6. ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dullfin
Tumbler's analysis of what stimulates the female is depressing for us males, especially us who want to be femdommed, but probably accurate for all that.

I hear you. I really do. It IS depressing!

Basically, we men (and, yes, here I go again speaking for all men, which I know to be fraught with peril) want sex. Femdom sex is great. It's some kind of sex. To straight men, it's an interaction with a woman that has sex written all over it. Yet, if I read the women correctly, for them, it's NOT all about sex. Its about other feel-good things, other than sex (where we can define sex not necessarily as penetrative but at least genitalia related).

There are probably a thousand discussions about this on Ask a Mistress, so this probably isn't the place for that discussion, but your point is clear in that it's DEPRESSING to male subs such as you and I, that women are so DIFFERENT from us (and, I'm sure, vice versa).

quote:

ORIGINAL: dullfin
So, the Stepford Husband role is what awaits us then. Be nice and vanilla outside the home, do all the chores inside the home, pamper the Domme in every way, and maybe, just maybe, but only if you are very very good, for a very, very long time (I'm talking years here), you just might get a tap on the bottom with the back of a hair brush, followed by a 'are we finished now?'

I think you just made me realize EXACTLY why Femdom porn doesn't at all follow the same pattern as any other porn!
quote:

ORIGINAL: dullfin
Ahhh, I see it. That's why there is such a market for porn, and professional services - and always has been. The internet hasn't changed the fundamentals, just offered new ways of servicing the market.

This is poignant!

Earlier in this thread, I had tried to find what we termed "realistic porn" examples, which, I felt, were easy to locate for maledom porn, but, which were difficult (nigh near impossible) to locate for femdom porn.

I think, you might be on to the underlying reason for this phenomenon.

Perhaps it's as simple as the realistic femdom porn, from a female FLR perspective, could, in actuality, be a something like a guy dutifully doing dishes and faithfully cleaning the house and going out to dinner bringing gifts and opening doors for her, with enlightening conversation, wine, and romance bundled up in the mix - or - a romance novel style growth of plot where a young man, good at heart, but, perhaps troubled in his youth, is enamored by an older woman who eventually takes him as hers and forces him to do her bidding and punishes him when he runs afoul of his duties.

Since submissive men might find that particular 'FEMDOM" movie less than sexually interesting, they might gravitate toward the CFNM genre of Femdom, or the CBT genre, or the slave farm genre, or any genre that actually caters to MALE interests, instead of to female interests. Hence, it would be interesting to males, yet, wholly unrealistically uninteresting to females.

This, I need to think more about - but I thank you for bringing it up, as it may explain a LOT about the clearly skewed wholly negative and somewhat catty assessment that most dominant ladies seem to have toward femdom porn (some of which we've seen here in earlier repartee).


< Message edited by Moderator3 -- 6/15/2015 11:10:38 PM >

(in reply to dullfin)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/6/2015 10:11:04 AM   
HoneyBears


Posts: 337
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		FFS

Get a life, one that is not stuck between your legs.

(If it waddles like a duck ...)

_____________________________

"The most precious possession that ever comes to a man in this world is a woman's heart."-- J.G. Holland

(in reply to Tumbler)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/6/2015 10:32:56 AM   
Tumbler


Posts: 45
Joined: 9/15/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
Random musings and speculation are now characterized as analyses, I see.

I love your entire explanation above, as it fits where this thread is in need of enlightenment, which is the perspective of the female domme!

As for musings and speculation, let's just say that we're just enjoying a casual conversation among peers, where any potential earth-shattering conclusions that arise from the discussion are probably not going to be making it to the nightly news anytime soon.

Male & female. Domme and sub. Porn connoisseur or porn critic. We're just enjoying our conversation - where we welcome various viewpoints being expressed - and - as long as we're not condescending or so closed minded as to exude contempt in every word, we're actually "getting somewhere" closer toward an understanding of the motives and actions that define the human condition.
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
dullfin, your description of the role a male sub fills is a very narrow one that would fit a small minority.
A domme who already has a primary doesn't have much need or use for a sexual relationship with her other subs.

This, I might add, while almost certainly very true, is the bane of the dime-a-dozen male sub, such as I am.

Perhaps that's a very important reason "realistic" porn provides such a believably satisfying avenue to meet an otherwise unmet erotic fulfillment need?
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
She can dominate and Top them without sex ever entering into the picture, and if her pressing need is for service, then that is up to her.

While the fraught-with-peril disclaimer must be invoked yet again, I believe what we're discussing indirectly is that women's bodies and sexual services are in demand vastly more so than men's bodies and sexual services.

Hence, the unmet need, which defines the human condition.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
You cannot expect a man who presents himself as a service sub to be entitled to get any of his mistress's goodies.

Ah, but you can!
Under certain well-controlled circumstances, which are intimately tied to the premise of this thread, which is that fetish porn is astoundingly common, which means it has a lot to do with satisfying a missing component of the human condition.

Let's say, for a moment, that a man, who presents himself as a service submissive, WANTS to be entitled to the Mistress' goodies.
Hmmmmmmmmm... now what?

It's his right to desire, to need, to crave, to even beg for said Mistress' goodies.
Yet, under the conditions you already aptly outlined, she (the Mistress) is having none of this.

So, now what does that man (and billions like him, since I'm trying to understand the human condition that drives the huge quantity of fetish porn) do. How does he get his otherwise unment need for said "goodies" met?

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
That is outright deception on his part.


Deceit is certainly one way to get the males' otherwise unment need for "Mistress' goodies" met!
We should note that deceit isn't an only-male trait, when it comes to getting unmet needs met, but, women don't seem to do it the same way that men do in the case above.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
If she wants to own a sex slave (other than just an oral slave), then he would need to have some studdly qualifications.
Do you?

I realize that question was directed at someone else, and, I also must remember that I have been continually trying to keep this conversation in the general rather than the specific individual, but, it's a fair question.

In fact, it's such a fair question that I'd have to sheepishly admit, were I to honestly answer your question were it directed at me, then I would affirm that I do NOT, in most cases, have those studly qualifications.

If I had, then Wilt Chamberlain and Genghis Khan would have to move over, as I service all the available ladies.

So now, what do I do to get Mistress' "goodies"?

Given the requirement that you solicited, let's assume two things, for the purpose of our conversation:
1. I do NOT have those studly qualifications, and,
2. I still have those aforementioned unmet needs.

How do I get those needs met?
More to the point of this thread, how do millions of people in similar circumstances get their unmet needs for Mistress' goodies met?
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
Even if you think you do, that does not mean your mistress would find you sexually attractive.

Oh my! More barriers to sexual fulfillment.
In fact, the point is that there is barrier, after barrier, after barrier, after barrier.

Let's think about this, truthfully, from the standpoint of needs and barriers creating unmet needs:
1. There are barriers for men to obtain Mistress' goodies, such that there is a huge unmet need, and,
2. There are no barriers for men to watch porn films where they can mentally obtain Mistress' goodies.

In fact, I could say the same two things about prostitution:
1. There are barriers for men to obtain females' goodies, such that there is a huge unmet need, and,
2. There are far fewer barriers for men to pay a prostitute to satisfy that unmet need.

Such is the human condition.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
Regardless, bottoming for your kink gratification or having your fetishes fulfilled is not a given either unless you hire a provider and chances are she is not looking to have much of a personal relationship with you, if any.

Oooops. I'm responding to your thoughtful conversation, line by line, and I just now see that you've taken a similar tangent in that there are many barriers creating unmet needs, where there are just as many services created to meet those unmet needs (for a fee).

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
I have a live-in primary partner who meets all my intimacy needs, as well as my D/s needs.
If I wanted a secondary sub, it would not be a sexual arrangement.


Hence, were a million men want to be your submissive, they would find barriers to their obtaining your intimate goodies.
This barrier is not all that unlike the pride of lions in the plains of Africa, where one (rather studly) male gets all the females, while the less-than-studly males (yours truly included), are left to fend for themselves among the boys and sissies.
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
Lifestyle dommes do not stay available for very long, if they can help it.

This statement is so poignant!
What that says is that a lifestyle domme has practically no problem finding a suitable service mate, while millions of less-than-suitable mates (again, I'll gracefully insert yours truly here), are left to fend for themselves.

They have an unmet need. It's huge.
How do I know it's huge?
Because the services designed to meet that otherwise unmet need are astoundingly huge.
Somebody is keeping hookers and porn producers in business.
Lots and lots of somebodies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
Unfortunately, the quantity is there, but it is quality which is lacking dearly in partnership-worthy and mate-worthy male submissives.

Ah. There's always that ugly underlying truth that always seems to get in the way of summarizing simplicity!

You';ve brought up that the Domme has a problem with quality, but no problem with quantity while I've brought up that the male submissive has a problem with sheer lack of quantity - such that being picky about quality is a second or third order concern.

What you've brought up is the ugly second side of the equation, dastardly truth resisting simplicity!
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
A full-fledged relationship with a domme takes a lot more than shaking your backside or running around her place acting like a houseboy, maid, butler, or some other species of simpering, kink-crazed fool.


Ah, that barrier. That dastardly barrier to Mistress' goodies!
If only they made a porn film where men could watch a depiction of men shaking their backsides and running around her place acting like a simpering kink-crazed fool. If only. Then, I could get my rocks off and solve this dastardly equation of unmet needs.

In fact, if only they made a Findomme, who would do the same thing!
That would balance the demand-vs-supply equation instantly.

Maybe that's why porn/prostitutes exist in such huge quantities throughout the world, throughout the ages.


< Message edited by Tumbler -- 6/6/2015 10:43:40 AM >

(in reply to HoneyBears)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/6/2015 10:37:17 AM   
Tumbler


Posts: 45
Joined: 9/15/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears

FFS

Get a life, one that is not stuck between your legs.

(If it waddles like a duck ...)


I had to look up FFS, but, if you didn't want to participate in an adult conversation about why the amount of fetish porn is absolutely astoundingly huge such that it almost swamps all other forms of data, and, consequently, what that says about how unmet needs are met with the use of fetish porn, then, why did you participate?

Nobody forced you to.

Being condescending and participating at the same time, is being deceitful yourself.
You can agree. You can disagree.

You can even supply rationale (which you did) which was that you brought up the fact that the BARRIER to admission, for men, dealing with femdomme Mistresses, is far too great to be worth the effort for millions of men (hence, their needs are otherwise met).

FFS/Get-a-life/fuck-like-a-duck isn't intelligent discourse, and it doesn't suit you.

Unmet needs will always be met because an industry will spring up (as it has) to meet them (priced accordingly).

< Message edited by Tumbler -- 6/6/2015 10:48:55 AM >

(in reply to HoneyBears)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/6/2015 10:47:02 AM   
Tumbler


Posts: 45
Joined: 9/15/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
What, in your opinion, makes the "maledom" vids realistic?


I just happened to run into this 10-minute maledom film of a man pleasuring his bed-bound wife, which I find particularly "realistic" (given the prior definition which has nothing whatsoever to do with erotic plot but everything to do with erotic action).

Another example is this 10-minute clip of a man enjoying his floor-bound wife, again, devoid of plot but clearly fills the mind with delightful thoughts brought on by the focused imagery.

Likewise, this 10-minute clip of a man caning his blond wife hanging in the woods fits the criterion for "realistic" porn, and, yet again, is all about imagery, being devoid of a complex plot.

There is no need to bring in the "plot" aspect of the plumber, being accosted by the ladies of the house, such that he must give in and accede to their carnal wishes. It's just a man whipping, fucking, fisting, kissing, etc., his wife.

I would characterize about 1/3 of all fetish porn to be of a similar "realistic" ilk.

With respect to the initial question, I think the summary of the thoughts brought up to date might reliably propose:

There is a huge unmet human male-preponderant need for fetish sexual feelings, and even larger barriers to fulfillment - so - not surprisingly, a huge mercantile market has perpetually sprung up over the eons to meet that otherwise unmet male human need to satisfy both the huge quantity and infinite variety of male sexual cravings.

It's likely that simple.

Such is the human condition.

< Message edited by Tumbler -- 6/6/2015 11:22:24 AM >

(in reply to Tumbler)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/6/2015 11:28:05 AM   
HoneyBears


Posts: 337
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Your post no. 44 illustrates what your problem is. You are not interested in an open-ended discussion--that much was clear many, many of your posts ago.

~FFS to the nth power~

Apparently, your private agenda is to gather data that will bend into a narcissistic worldview of why you are not always successful in perpetrating your deceptions upon all women.
You clearly have your boundaries blurred at train-wreck proportions, and it does not take an ounce of condescension on anyone's part to be a witness to this.

... Because it isn't just with Dommes, is it? With the score of references to the maledom porn you watch, no genuinely submissive, straight male would be able to stomach viewing M/f or M/m content.

Having an obsession with porn as a safe outlet for pathologies meets the bulk of unmet needs in most males on a vicarious level.
Not so for those who have sexual pathologies left untreated.

Go ahead and become defensive again. If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen instead of stewing in your own juices and spewing forth ill-disguised vitriolic misogyny under the cloak of curiosity-seeker.

-- Cub

(Edited for clarity)

< Message edited by HoneyBears -- 6/6/2015 11:38:39 AM >

_____________________________

"The most precious possession that ever comes to a man in this world is a woman's heart."-- J.G. Holland

(in reply to Tumbler)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/6/2015 11:46:16 AM   
Tumbler


Posts: 45
Joined: 9/15/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
You are not interested in an open-ended discussion--that much was clear many, many of your posts ago.

While I had suggested remedial arithmetic skills for one immature poster, you, as another childish "get a life/fuck like a duck/FFS" poster are different.

May I suggest reading comprehension skills as your primary weakness?

Read the thread again. See who is asking questions, responding to each issue brought up, agreeing or disagreeing point by point, illustrating with examples, etc.

And, then look to see who is just being childishly condescending...
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
~FFS to the nth power~


See above suggestion and maybe throw in additional expository writing remedial classes to the necessary mix to make you a more complete human being capable of intelligent discourse.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
Apparently, your private agenda is to gather data that will bend into a narcissistic worldview of why you are not always successful in perpetrating your deceptions upon all women.

With your aforementioned need for reading comprehension skills first and foremost in mind, you may note that I said, quite a few times, that were I (or you) not to even exist, the amount of fetish porn out there would be ... now where did I put that calculator after the last time ... oh... there ... ah ... yes, there it is .... tap tap tap ... yep, just what we arrived at so many times before ... the amount of fetish porn out there would be EXACTLY the same with or without you or me existing.

Which means it has NOTHING to do with you or me.

Despite your repeated attempt to condescendingly make this thread about me, this thread is about the HUMAN CONDITION.

I'm just trying to better understand what is presented to all of us, as a fait accompli.
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
... Because it isn't just with Dommes, is it? With the score of references to the male Dom porn you watch, no genuinely submissive, straight male would be able to stomach viewing M/f or M/m content.

I suspect you're alluding to the complexities of my profile, which, I believe, I clearly lay out (again, taking me up on that suggestion for improvement in reading comprehension would go a long way toward improving your understanding of basic human issues).

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
Not so for those who have sexual pathologies left untreated.


Bearing in mind that a sexual pathology would, by definition, be an anomaly, it bears repeating, even though maybe you missed it the first dozen or so times it was clearly shown, but, to your point it bears repeating, were you or I to never even exist, this abundance of fetish porn would exist in EXACTLY the same quantity and variety such that it would overwhelm all other forms of data on the net (or elsewhere).

That says that porn (and in this case, fetish porn) is a key component of the human condition.

To wit:
That you mentioned larger barriers for males than they feel like overcoming is yet another component of the human condition.
That someone mentioned quality lacking, all the while quantity was in abundance is yet another aspect of this equation.
That we outlined how femdom porn differs greatly from maledom porn is yet another aspect where the truth resists simplicity.
The observation that Mistress' NEEDS must differ greatly from associated malesub needs becomes a necessary corollary to that equation.
etc.

Such are the fruits of intelligent discourse.

E-D-I-T: Interestingly, this quite recently introduced argument about presumed sexual pathologies clearly shows (given the data in the original post) that you must logically consider most human males throughout the ages to exhibit profoundly untreated sexual pathologies (from your point of view).

This, I find interesting, because, when one understands your concept of what you would like males to be, and then extrapolates that to women in general (if possible), then we have yet another classic example of how the ugly truth resists simplicity in understanding the essentially static-over-the-eons vagaries of the human condition.

< Message edited by Tumbler -- 6/6/2015 12:13:18 PM >

(in reply to HoneyBears)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/7/2015 1:24:22 AM   
HoneyBears


Posts: 337
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tumbler

this thread is about the HUMAN CONDITION.

I'm just trying to better understand what is presented to all of us, as a fait accompli.

You don't like it when your b.s. gets called out, do you. Men like you do not know jackshit about the human condition.

If they did, they would not have to come onto this site setting up a dozen different profiles to cast as wide a net as "humanly" possible, or think they are so clever that their thinly veiled attempts to appear cerebral or knowledgeable are being seen through.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tumbler
quote:

ORIGINAL: HoneyBears
... Because it isn't just with Dommes, is it? With the score of references to the male Dom porn you watch, no genuinely submissive, straight male would be able to stomach viewing M/f or M/m content.

I suspect you're alluding to the complexities of my profile, which, I believe, I clearly lay out (again, taking me up on that suggestion for improvement in reading comprehension would go a long way toward improving your understanding of basic human issues).

Neither of us needs to read a profile when that person's posting style is replete with repetition. We recognize who this individual is and prefer to cut to the chase while he puts everybody to sleep once again with inane rhetoric.

He would like to believe he is so complex that nobody can figure hin out and where his head is really at (stuck where the sun doesn't shine), the least of whom would be his own self.

To assist you with your own reading comprehension skills, this translates to no matter how many times somebody tries to reinvent himself ... there he is, continuing to spin the same wheels and churn out the same spam onto these forums.

Tea and crumpets, anyone?
(while reading the periodic table of elements, and trying to appear cultured by alluding to ancient Graeco-Roman cities/heroes, Egyptian pyramids and the like)

_____________________________

"The most precious possession that ever comes to a man in this world is a woman's heart."-- J.G. Holland

(in reply to Tumbler)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/7/2015 3:14:05 PM   
dullfin


Posts: 9
Joined: 12/19/2011
Status: offline 		Hum di hum. Skip the tea. I'm just looking for a bit of crumpet.

(in reply to HoneyBears)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/7/2015 3:54:17 PM   
HoneyBears


Posts: 337
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dullfin

Hum di hum. Skip the tea. I'm just looking for a bit of crumpet.

Be careful what you ask for--you just might get it.

ETA sidebar, you did that senior age breakdown for this site, right? We thought your preliminary findings were interesting, but most of all you were open to what other posters had to say without getting defensive or promoting your own personal slant, and did not get your knickers in a twist.

< Message edited by HoneyBears -- 6/7/2015 4:13:04 PM >

_____________________________

"The most precious possession that ever comes to a man in this world is a woman's heart."-- J.G. Holland

(in reply to dullfin)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/8/2015 7:07:58 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tumbler

Anyone know how much of the internet is kink porn? 77.9277635412678% Why does this stuff exist in such huge amounts? Look up "Men" in Wikeopeopdia.

In my opinion, about 1/3 of porn is realistic since it's just people having sex of all different types, while 1/3 is highly unrealistic which is just a produced movie following a script - and I haven't seen the last 1/3 yet to characterize it yet.

Unlike you.....I've seen the last 1/3rd. It's fucking amazing shit.

Huffington post said in 2013 that porn is 1/3 the network traffic (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/03/internet-porn-stats_n_3187682.html) but it didn't say how much was kinky porn. 93.772999887155653472%.

Gizmodo said in 2012 that each of the top porn sites (XVideos, LiveJasmin, YouPorn, Tube8, and Pornhub) were "on par" with Facebook and Google (http://gizmodo.com/5899327/how-much-porn-does-the-internet-hold) with an average 20 minutes per visit for 4.4 billion views per month on each site. I first viewed porn in 2007.....I've actually never left my house.

I couldn't find numbers for fetish porn, but, like prostitution, these things must exist in such stupendously huge amounts for a really really really really good and fundamental (to humans) reason. Yes. It sells.....next?

It the reason simply that all people love to look at and watch sex, including kinky sex? Is what reason?




< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 6/8/2015 7:09:12 PM >

(in reply to Tumbler)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/9/2015 10:11:13 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
Status: offline 		Let's make an assumption, a bizarre one I know, but let us make the assumption that the person is actually questioning rather than being a troll.

Based on that assumption I will answer: there us a lot of pornography out there that doesn't fit your style then you can even dream of. Maledom/femaledom pornography goes back thousands of years. Literally. There are records in Greek histories.

I have a fetish for women who want to be slaves to men. Some men have fetishes where they want to be slaves to women. There are transgendered people. There are people who do not consider themselves transgendered but want to be treated as if they are in a sexual context. Confused yet? I haven't even started.

I want my girlfriends to be submissive to the point of slavery but I abhor anyone being forced into that situation. There are some people here who want to be treated as bunny-rabbits in the bed room. I don't understand it but hey, it ain't my kink.

So why are there so many sites for it? Because some people do pay for it. And their kinks go much further down the rabbit hole than you'd believe.
It takes a lot of different people to make up this world of ours.

That's the world you got born into, you only choices are to leave or deal with it.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/10/2015 7:57:47 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

Let's make an assumption, a bizarre one I know, but let us make the assumption that the person is actually questioning rather than being a troll.

Based on that assumption I will answer: there us a lot of pornography out there that doesn't fit your style then you can even dream of. Maledom/femaledom pornography goes back thousands of years. Literally. There are records in Greek histories.

I have a fetish for women who want to be slaves to men. Some men have fetishes where they want to be slaves to women. There are transgendered people. There are people who do not consider themselves transgendered but want to be treated as if they are in a sexual context. Confused yet? I haven't even started.

I want my girlfriends to be submissive to the point of slavery but I abhor anyone being forced into that situation. There are some people here who want to be treated as bunny-rabbits in the bed room. I don't understand it but hey, it ain't my kink.

So why are there so many sites for it? Because some people do pay for it. And their kinks go much further down the rabbit hole than you'd believe.
It takes a lot of different people to make up this world of ours.

That's the world you got born into, you only choices are to leave or deal with it.




Ayepper.

(in reply to MalcolmNathaniel)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/14/2015 10:18:15 AM   
Snitch


Posts: 105
Joined: 1/27/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel
there us a lot of pornography out there that doesn't fit your style then you can even dream of. Maledom/femaledom pornography goes back thousands of years. Literally.


You make one of the few reasonable arguments I've seen on this thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel
So why are there so many sites for it? Because some people do pay for it. And their kinks go much further down the rabbit hole than you'd believe.
It takes a lot of different people to make up this world of ours.

I think it's unattached unfulfilled men much more than women that is keeping the industry alive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel
That's the world you got born into, you only choices are to leave or deal with it.


It preceded us and it will survive us because it is who and what men are.


(in reply to MalcolmNathaniel)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/15/2015 4:42:26 AM   
Tumbler


Posts: 45
Joined: 9/15/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Snitch
It preceded us and it will survive us because it is who and what men are.


Sorry for not having replied sooner but I was out of the country for work and haven't logged in since my last post.

To respond to Snitch' assumption that it's only men, to be fair, we would also have to consider that the making of porn is just as much what women are, if we assume that mainstream porn is heterosexual.

And, as MalcolmNathaniel astutely noted, porn is forever in both directions.
Just witness the new beginning of "porn in space" which has been in the news for the past few weeks.

While it is most likely just a publicity stunt that will go nowhere, the tabloids are currently touting the first attempt at filmed space copulation.
quote:


What happens if you have sex in space? Pornhub wants to find out by filming the first ever adult movie in orbit next year
Dubbed 'Sexplorations', the film will star Eva Lovia and Johnny Sins
The actors will receive 'six months of rigorous training' prior to launch
Pornhub is asking fundraisers to donate a $3.4 million (£2.2 million)
Investing $150,000 can get you one of the performer's used space suits


With respect to how porn sites make their money, at least for non-space fetish films, most of the sites already noted don't even have a way to buy a film were you to want to buy them. Taking further note, many five minute films seem to have ads at the very end pointing to where you can get the entire film so, you can assume they're simply sanctioned trailers (as the aforementioned Queensnake & Kink.com garbage certainly is).

Most of the films seem to be "legit", as far as I can tell from initial inspection.

Overall, it appears to be a very highly internally policed industry, with the bulk of the efforts in marketing of the films being where many (if not most) of the five and ten minute flicks come from. I can't explain the multitude of hour and two-hour films, but I do note that some of those I started tracking the URLs of just before I left on my trip seem to have been since taken down.

So, it seems the porn makers are playing the same both-sides-of-the-fence cat-and-mouse game that all other makers of IP are.
They apparently make their money the same way Google/Facebook/Yahoo and others make it because nobody is actually buying the stuff they make, but they watch it on the web sites, and the web site sells those hits somehow, hence the inevitable money flow.

I'd be interested in the perspective of someone who is connected to the financial/business/marketing side of the industry to confirm or shoot down those assumptions.

(in reply to Snitch)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/15/2015 9:08:31 PM   
Tumbler


Posts: 45
Joined: 9/15/2014
Status: offline 		Here is just one illustration of how a particular fetish porn site implies it makes its money, since nobody is paying money for porn on the Internet when hour-long and two-hour-long films are all available for free without even needing something as onerous as a login account.

[Mod removed image from web site with video due to copyright concerns.]

As I had mentioned, I have plenty of layers of protection from malware and ads, so, they're complaining about one of them but, at the same time, at least they are saying why they care:
quote:

Don't you like banners? We neither. But advertisement on this website is the only thing that helps to cover the expenses for servers and bandwidth. Please consider switching off AdBlockers for our domain. Thank you!.

To test, I started my browser in safe mode, and those black-and-white blocks contained obnoxious and distracting ads.
Even worse, when I turned off all protections, all sorts of popups and redirects occurred, so, I pity anyone who has to suffer through an advertisement barrage such as those are (and many legitimate news sites also seem to do, so it's not just porn).

Anyway, we still don't know if the films are piriated, but, in this particular case (which was basically randomly chosen), the VHS quality implies it's a digitization, which, most of us would agree, probably didn't originate at the porn factory.

< Message edited by Moderator3 -- 6/15/2015 10:53:14 PM >

(in reply to Tumbler)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/15/2015 11:45:53 PM   
Moderator3


Posts: 3289
Status: offline 		Just posting in hopes of clearing the scroll.



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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/18/2015 11:37:57 PM   
Tumbler


Posts: 45
Joined: 9/15/2014
Status: offline 		[note]The Mod and I discussed the situation in detail, and I agreed to refrain from posting actual clickable verbatim URLs to outside fetish sites so that, together, we can avoid any copyright implications. To that end, all the URLs below are broken up and the TLD (the top-level domain name suffix) removed.[/note]

To attempt to answer the question of WHERE the fetish video porn on the net was coming from, I ran the following test procedure which identified about a score of top-level domains which hosted all the porn found in 100 tests of 10 sites (see test procedure below).

All the porn from the 100 random tests (all "femdom" video porn from sites with "bdsm" in the search) came from the following 18 "aggregators" (listed alphabetically):
Any Porn
Any Sex
Dr Tuber
Emp Flix
Fetish Shrine
H2 Porn
Hard Sex Tube
Hell Porno
Nu Vid
Porner Bros
Pornoid
Red Tube
Sun Porno
Tn Aflix
Tube Cup
Viki Porn
Wan Koz
X Hamster

The 100 femdom flicks themselves were all pseudo-randomly chosen using the standard privacy-aware process outlined below:
0. Boot to the freeware Tails secure operating system.
1. Run the freeware Tor Browser Bundle protected Firefox,
2. Optionally, hide Tor activity from your ISP by choosing a random free public VPN server.
3. Visit 10 sites (randomly chosen by a combination of DuckDuckGo & Disconnect.Me privacy searches for femdom bdsm videos).
4. A new clean Tor session was opened for each web site.
5. The "femdom" category was selected; if no categories were available, "femdom" was selected in the search bar.
(If neither categories nor searches were available, the first 10 videos in order were selected)
6. The first 10 videos were selected in succession (using control-leftclick to open separate tabs for each).
7. Necessary buttons were clicked to attempt to download the videos to a temporary file system (stored only in memory and not on the hard disk drive).
8. Successful/unsuccessful video downloads were recorded (see results below).
9. Each video was searched for copyright or trailer notices (most had neither notice).
- It was recorded as failed if any other web page popped up (most often an aggregate web site).
- Advertisements were ignored (separate popups don't happen with the Tor Browser Bundle but newly opened ad tabs were deleted).
- If a plugin was required (e.g., Flash), it was considered as having failed (since flash is a known weak point).
- If the video wasn't found, it failed (generally it was listed as deleted on the host web site due to a copyright takedown notice).
- Only when the fetish video downloaded to completion was it recorded as a success.
10. The originating web page was listed in the Tor Browser download page (which appears to be accurate).
- In all cases (of 100 attempts, only 47 succeeded), the video was hosted on one of the 18 aggregator web sites.
- No video was actually hosted on the site where the video was originally found (this is a key observation!).

Given that they were chosen, essentially randomly, it shouldn't matter much which exact web sites were tested, but, for completeness the list of 10 fetish-related sites are shown below (of necessity, as per Mod agreement, with the URLs made unclickable):
search=yes,categories=yes,success=100% (10 out of 10) german porn tube
search=yes,categories=no, success=90% (9 out of 10) bdsm movies tube
search=no, categories=no, success=60% (6 out of 10) bdsm slave movie
search=yes,categories=yes,success=50% (5 out of 10) tube bdsm
search=no, categories=no, success=50% (5 out of 10) hell of bdsm
search=no, categories=no, success=40% (4 out of 10) bdsm slave
search=yes,categories=yes,success=30% (3 out of 10) my bdsm videos
search=no, categories=no, success=20% (2 out of 10) bdsm sex
search=yes,categories=yes,success=20% (2 out of 10) bdsm bdsm
search=yes,categories=yes,success=10% (1 out of 10) bdsm porner

While this is just a hasty ad-hoc experiment, what can be tentatively inferred is that, while it appears there are many thousands of fetish video porn web sites on the net, most likely the business model is to source videos from a far smaller subset of "host" sites. This has the effect of making the number of porn sites appear more pervasive than they really are, since each site found was simply a front end to the major porn-video aggregators.

As for the copyright and trailer results, of the 47 films, approximately 1/4 (12 films) had notices indicating they were trailers, and less than 5% (2 films) contained copyright notices at the beginning or end. The rest of the films (86%) had neither trailer nor copyright notice.

Here are some illustrative screenshots.
If anyone has questions about the technical tests (all of which should be in your standard privacy arsenal anyway) or of the results, let me know.
Download observations

Video observations

(in reply to Moderator3)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: How much kink porn is there and why does so much of... - 6/19/2015 8:35:04 AM   
Moderator3


Posts: 3289
Status: offline 		Please stop making comment on what I have said and done. This whole mess is taking up too much of my time. My biggest concerns are links that take site users to a site that may have some risk to the safety of their machine and copy right issues. Please stop answering for me or telling people what I have agreed to. That way you won't make a mistake.



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Profile   Post #: 60
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