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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

If you feel a solution is possible, please outline it. If you feel a solution is not possible at the moment, what needs to change in order to arrive at and implement a solution?

Arm yourselves, armed personnel or security workers in the schools and armed clergy in the churches, armed business owners and armed households. Freakin simple, an armed society is a polite society.

The USA with something in the order of 300 million guns in private hands is already an armed society. I don't know anyone who thinks it's a peaceful society. According to wiki:
" the [murder] rate of the United States is among the highest of developed countries, around 5.5 in 2004,[63] with rates in larger cities sometimes over 40 per 100,000"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Murder_rates_by_country

Take out gang/drug related murders, and we are competitive with England.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA
Wait for the spin Peon. As Eric Holder says, never waste a good crisis. But the answer to your question is, we've seen this sort of thing before and know how it will play out. Yes, that is what you on the left do.

Rahm Emanuel said that.

Hmm. I do see what I feel to be a suspicious tendency to forestall any effort towards useful change towards preventing such outrages in the future by means of a two-pronged 'attack': one, to lament - loudly and ostentatiously; two, to accuse those who call for changes of 'trying to make political capital out of a tragedy'.

Therein lies the problem. There are those that will use any means they feel they can to push through politically divisive legislation on the back of a tragedy, just as there are those who will accuse others of attempting to gain political capital out of a tragedy, in an effort to thwart prevention of future outrages.
How do you tell the difference?

Perhaps by having an honest conversation about the tragedy, the various factors that contributed to it and open-minded assessments of the various options advanced to thwart similar tragedies occurring in the future. An intention by all sides to listen and hear others would be enormously beneficial, as would honest declarations of interest by those with interests in the outcome.
To me, that seems a far more productive strategy that an automatic retreat to pre-existing dogmatic positions which is what happens at the moment.

Yep, and everyone involved will claim to be taking part honestly. We know many politicians will use anything to their advantage, even if it doesn't address the underlying situation.

To restate for you:

How do we know we're having an "honest conversation about the tragedy, the various factors that contributed to it and open-minded assessments of the various options advanced to thwart similar tragedies occurring in the future[, where the] intention by all sides [is] to listen and hear others[?]"

OK then let me ask you a question: Is a solution to the problem of gun violence possible given the current political realities and the 2nd Amendment?

If you feel a solution is possible, please outline it. If you feel a solution is not possible at the moment, what needs to change in order to arrive at and implement a solution?

How little you understand. The current political situation is due to sixty years of leftist mis-management and social manipulation. The second amendment is not a thing. It is an acknowledgement of the right of every man to defend his liberty. You speak as if that is a thing you'd control. I find that sick.

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

If you feel a solution is possible, please outline it. If you feel a solution is not possible at the moment, what needs to change in order to arrive at and implement a solution?

Arm yourselves, armed personnel or security workers in the schools and armed clergy in the churches, armed business owners and armed households. Freakin simple, an armed society is a polite society.

The USA with something in the order of 300 million guns in private hands is already an armed society. I don't know anyone who thinks it's a peaceful society. According to wiki:
" the [murder] rate of the United States is among the highest of developed countries, around 5.5 in 2004,[63] with rates in larger cities sometimes over 40 per 100,000"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Murder_rates_by_country

Take out gang/drug related murders, and we are competitive with England.

Don't tell her that Bama. Let her believe it's the Wild West and she won't come here. Scheess

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

This, your last sentence wasn't snide? Or you don't see yourself in your natural state as snide?

"So perhaps you could enlighten me with your superior knowledge?"

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But - and here we get to another reason why I asked you for *your* solutions - I know little about the culture of the state in question. I'm not even American. So perhaps you could enlighten me with your superior knowledge?

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I see. Since I don't agree with you, there is no point in you conversing? Well, I'm beginning to agree that there is no point in conversing with you. Never an idea, just criticism and snide comments.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: HunterCA

This, your last sentence wasn't snide? Or you don't see yourself in your natural state as snide?

"So perhaps you could enlighten me with your superior knowledge?"

No. Here is what I said in full:

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But - and here we get to another reason why I asked you for *your* solutions - I know little about the culture of the state in question. I'm not even American. So perhaps you could enlighten me with your superior knowledge?

I would expect you or anyone else to have superior knowledge in certain respects as a result of having a better acquaintanceship with the culture. This would be the case if you happen to be an American; the more so if you knew SC, even more so if you happened to live there.

Look, please try not to look so hard for offence, Hunter.

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I see. Since I don't agree with you, there is no point in you conversing? Well, I'm beginning to agree that there is no point in conversing with you. Never an idea, just criticism and snide comments.

As previously noted: it's not that you didn't agree with me. I expected that. It's that you didn't think anything could be done, or should be done. To use your own words, you had nothing to offer but criticism.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata


Of all the images the Times had available to print, they chose a photo more calculated to further the "racist America" narrative than to reflect reality. Except for some fringe "Rooters" (yeah, I'm coining a word), I think the ones below are closer to the truth of how the vast majority of American citizens feel about the outrage this man committed.





K.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata


Of all the images the Times had available to print, they chose a photo more calculated to further the "racist America" narrative than to reflect reality. Except for some fringe "Rooters" (yeah, I'm coining a word), I think the ones below are closer to the truth of how the vast majority of American citizens feel about the outrage this man committed.





K.

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Dylann Roof seemed to be wandering through this small suburb with a set of racist views and little else: no school, no friends, no clique with which to associate.


So far, the portrait they are drawing of Roof is that of a "lone wolf," someone disconnected from traditional hate or terrorist groups, who looked online for his inspiration

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Experts say lone-wolf attackers are often people with stress and instability in their lives, previous criminal behavior, few close personal relationships and a tendency to let anger fester over perceived wounds, including things that did not happen to them personally.

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"We find lone wolves across the entire political or religious spectrum," said Jeffrey D. Simon, visiting lecturer in the Department of Political Science at UCLA and author of "Lone Wolf Terrorism: Understanding the Growing Threat."

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Are you saying those photos better explain why he specifically massacred black people in a church?

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Are you saying those photos better explain why he specifically massacred black people in a church?

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What a twisted mind. Your statement would have meant what you said had not you ended it with sarcasm. Not being sacrcastic could have been stated by saying, "so perhaps you could provide me local knowledge." But that's not what you said. You used "enlightened" as a sarcasm and you used "superior" as a sarcasm. If you don't see that, then I postulate that it's because it's just part of your personality to be sarcastic.

All choices have the nothing option. The fact I choose the nothing option is a statement of my idea. You copping out with, well then I won't talk to you, is just an example that you don't have your own ideas, merely criticism. If all ideas have a nothing option it does not mean that other option cannot be debated. It is only when someone has no opi on and refuses to debate that there is no debate.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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What a twisted mind. Your statement would have meant what you said had not you ended it with sarcasm. Not being sacrcastic could have been stated by saying, "so perhaps you could provide me local knowledge." But that's not what you said. You used "enlightened" as a sarcasm and you used "superior" as a sarcasm. If you don't see that, then I postulate that it's because it's just part of your personality to be sarcastic.

All choices have the nothing option. The fact I choose the nothing option is a statement of my idea. You copping out with, well then I won't talk to you, is just an example that you don't have your own ideas, merely criticism. If all ideas have a nothing option it does not mean that other option cannot be debated. It is only when someone has no opi on and refuses to debate that there is no debate.

Hunter, there wasn't sarcasm there. Your saying it over and again doesn't make it so. There's little point in your taking the route of cod psychology in the vain attempt to convince me of 'a personality trait that I can't see'.

I proposed ideas about changing the culture in SC. You proposed that nothing could be done. I asked you for what could be done, you returned with only criticism and the line that nothing could ... so I don't see what else there is for us to talk about.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Hunter, there wasn't sarcasm there. Your saying it over and again doesn't make it so. There's little point in your taking the route of cod psychology in the vain attempt to convince me of 'a personality trait that I can't see'.

I proposed ideas about changing the culture in SC. You proposed that nothing could be done. I asked you for what could be done, you returned with only criticism and the line that nothing could ... so I don't see what else there is for us to talk about.

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The documents also said that Roof's father and uncle contacted police to positively identify the 21-year-old as the suspect after authorities issued photos of the gunman within hours of the attack at the Emanuel AME Church in downtown Charleston Wednesday evening.

As those details trickled out, the suspect's family issued a statement expressing sadness and offering condolences to the families of the victims:

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"You took something really precious away from me, I will never talk to her again, never hold her again, but I forgive you," said the daughter of one of the victims, Ethel Lance. "You hurt me, you hurt a lot of people but God forgive you and I forgive you."

...

Bethanee Middleton-Brown, sister of another victim, DePayne Middleton-Doctor, addressed the hearing amid sniffles and sobs in the tiny courtroom.

She said her sister "taught me me that we are the family that love built, we have no room for hate, so we have to forgive. And I pray to God for your soul and I also thank God that And I also thank God I won't be around when your judgment day comes with him."

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At the opening of the emotional, 13-minute hearing, Gosnell addressed the court, saying Charleston is a strong, loving community with "big hearts."

"We are going to reach out to everyone, all the victims, and we will touch them," he said. "We have victims — nine of them — but we also have victims on the other side.

"There are victims on this young man's side of the family. No one would have ever thrown them into the whirlwind of events that they have been thrown into ... We must find it in their heart to also help his family as well."

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Gov. Nikki Haley, speaking on NBC's Today show on Friday, said that "we will absolutely will want him to have the death penalty" for the fatal shooting of nine members of a Bible study group at the Emanuel AME Church on Wednesday evening.

Charleston Mayor Joseph P. Riley Jr., said at a news conference Friday that though he's not a proponent of the death penalty, it's the law in South Carolina and he expects it will be sought in the church shooting. "If you are going to have a death penalty, certainly this case would merit it," Riley said.

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Police alleged that Roof opened fire on worshipers after sitting with them for at least an hour. The victims included the pastor, Clementa Pinckney, 41, who was also a state senator.

Roof allegedly told police he "almost didn't go through with (the shooting) because everyone was so nice to him," other sources told NBC News' Craig Melvin.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

where is the proof for that?

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Take out gang/drug related murders, and we are competitive with England.