RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (Full Version)

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South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag


Yes, the Confederate Flag is an embarrassment.
  42% (11)
Yes, after this shooting there was not choice about it.
  7% (2)
Yes, but for different reasons.
  11% (3)
No, the Flag is not racist in any way.
  19% (5)
No, the Flag deserves to stay.
  19% (5)


Total Votes : 26
(last vote on : 6/25/2015 2:14:05 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


BamaD -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/24/2015 8:03:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

The South lost the war. End of story. That's why we have all those states as part of "The United States of America". Otherwise, they would be their own country and could fly whatever flag they want. But they are not their own country. They lost that bid. A really long time ago. So unless the southern states really don't feel they are part of what is known as "America" then they need to stop flying a flag that is basically a statement of rebellion against the United States. It is unpatriotic for these states to continue to fly this flag. Do we see the Union Jack flying c continuously on government buildings? That war was lost by Britain. Again, over and done with. The country we live in now is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. If the South is still struggling with that then they can start another civil war. Otherwise, they need to get with the program. Racist or not is really a separate issue. For any government building to be flying a flag that is unpatriotic strikes me as at best, ridiculous, at worst, seditious and treasonous. If the southern states would like to attempt to secede again, be my guest. Then the government buildings can fly whatever flag they prefer. Until I hear otherwise, the southern states are part of America. Don't want to be part of America? Then leave. Don't participate in this passive aggressive action of flying a rebel flag and then still claiming to be part of "America".
My comments are not directed to private individuals who choose in their private lives to use stupid stuff. That is protected by the First Amendment. My comments are directed to what state governments should be allowed to do in this context. And in this context, government buildings flying a rebel flag have no place in the country we call The United States of America.

While I am sure you believe it your narrative about southerners hating America just doesn't fly. You will find for example that a grossly disproportionate percent of southerners join the military. The people who say we hate America are the ones who want us to go slow when attacked and to look at it from the other sides view. They, not southerners, are the ones finding a way to make everything America's fault. Why is it a great thing to take pride in your heritage, unless you are a white southerner?




Moderator3 -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/24/2015 8:12:06 PM)

Fast Reply:

Please don't repost the pictures that are so large, unless you can resize them. They are too big for the forum.

Thank you




Kirata -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/24/2015 9:04:57 PM)


~ FR ~

‘Gone with the Wind’ should go the way of the Confederate flag

If the Confederate flag is finally going to be consigned to museums as an ugly symbol of racism, what about the beloved film offering the most iconic glimpse of that flag in American culture?

K.









Sanity -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/24/2015 9:12:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

The South lost the war. End of story. That's why we have all those states as part of "The United States of America". Otherwise, they would be their own country and could fly whatever flag they want. But they are not their own country. They lost that bid. A really long time ago. So unless the southern states really don't feel they are part of what is known as "America" then they need to stop flying a flag that is basically a statement of rebellion against the United States. It is unpatriotic for these states to continue to fly this flag. Do we see the Union Jack flying c continuously on government buildings? That war was lost by Britain. Again, over and done with. The country we live in now is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. If the South is still struggling with that then they can start another civil war. Otherwise, they need to get with the program. Racist or not is really a separate issue. For any government building to be flying a flag that is unpatriotic strikes me as at best, ridiculous, at worst, seditious and treasonous. If the southern states would like to attempt to secede again, be my guest. Then the government buildings can fly whatever flag they prefer. Until I hear otherwise, the southern states are part of America. Don't want to be part of America? Then leave. Don't participate in this passive aggressive action of flying a rebel flag and then still claiming to be part of "America".
My comments are not directed to private individuals who choose in their private lives to use stupid stuff. That is protected by the First Amendment. My comments are directed to what state governments should be allowed to do in this context. And in this context, government buildings flying a rebel flag have no place in the country we call The United States of America.


No, the states didnt unite just to have all of their affairs micromanaged by the feds. Such things are left to the states to decide

And yes, we do see the Union Jack flying continuously over government buildings. Hawaiis state flag incorporates the British Union Jack

If a state so decides it can fly the colors of gay pride because (big surprise) its not up to you to decide, and its not up to Obama either

Thats why South Carolina is debating their flag situation in their state house




Sanity -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/24/2015 9:21:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


~ FR ~

‘Gone with the Wind’ should go the way of the Confederate flag

If the Confederate flag is finally going to be consigned to museums as an ugly symbol of racism, what about the beloved film offering the most iconic glimpse of that flag in American culture?

K.




Book burnings to follow

Perhaps they could hire ISIS to destroy the Jefferson Memorial (as he owned slaves) and other such offensive relics of our past, they do have the required experience

[img]http://static.squarespace.com/static/5032e99924ac2660dced1f19/t/5084aa75e4b0f4598aa9e986/1350871670075/jefferson-memorial_14913_600x450.jpg[/img]




Real0ne -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/24/2015 10:50:56 PM)

FR

Most people have it mostly wrong.
Slavery and states rights are the puppy chow they feed us in high school.

The real meat is:

President Andrew Jackson, the only one of our presidents whose administration totally abolished the National Debt, condemned the International Bankers as a "den of vipers" which he was determined to "rout out" of the fabric of American life.

Not only that but Jackson revoked the international bank charter and gave them the big [sm=sodoff.gif] and closed them down!

Then lincoln, like kennedy, and adolf who refused to pay the extortionists. Yeh interesting combination eh? LOL

Cant have anyone who doesnt play ball with the banking cabal now can we?

So the bank in retaliation thinking if we could just have us a nice lil ole war and 'finance both sides' because both sides will need lots of money and both will be forced into debt so they can kill each other off we can clean house and get ourselves a nice lil national debt that americans can pay inperpetuity.

brilliant plan, worked like a charm [:D]

and ladies and gentlemen that is precisely where the bear takes a crapola in the bucky wheat. LOL

thou shalt play with my bat and my ball and pay me to the extent of 4000% profit to do it or I [meaning the banks] shall lay your country to waste.


The well is very deep unless you all keep in mind 2 things. Concentration of money and power.

When you have enough money you own presidents nations and their militaries.








DaddySatyr -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/24/2015 11:03:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moderator3

Fast Reply:

Please don't repost the pictures that are so large, unless you can resize them. They are too big for the forum.

Thank you



Hell, I can't post pictures, any more, at all since the techs "fixed things" around here.

The "new" way to post photos is one has to copy a link location for a photo and put it between the correct tags. I always posted photos from my computer. Anyway, since linking to photos (essentially) is the only way to do it, people would have to know how to write code to re-size the photos. I know how to but it's hardly worth the work.



Michael




lovmuffin -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/25/2015 3:07:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

What about people equating what the Confederate Flag stands for with the Gay Pride Flag and saying, “Hey, that flag should be taken down too because all it represents is hatred towards Christians" ?


How many Christians did Gays enslave? And for how many years?

How many Christians have been lynched by Gays?

Please show me the photo of the nice water fountain labeled "Gays" next to the shitty looking fountain labeled "Christians."


Whose past might be more or less egregious is beside the point.




lovmuffin -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/25/2015 3:24:23 AM)

There is a petition in WV to remove all references to the late senator and former KKK member and Grand Wizard Robert Byrd from the public space, government buildings (including schools), roadways and all the rest of it.




crazyml -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/25/2015 3:25:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

What about people equating what the Confederate Flag stands for with the Gay Pride Flag and saying, “Hey, that flag should be taken down too because all it represents is hatred towards Christians" ?


How many Christians did Gays enslave? And for how many years?

How many Christians have been lynched by Gays?

Please show me the photo of the nice water fountain labeled "Gays" next to the shitty looking fountain labeled "Christians."


Whose past might be more or less egregious is beside the point.


No, it's the whole point.

It is a silly nonsense to claim that the gay pride flag is representative of hatred towards christians. There is no history of hatred towards Christians associated with the gay pride flag.

The confederate flag, however, has very strong associations historically and culturally with slavery.

There is a world of difference.




thishereboi -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/25/2015 3:48:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

But...I'm staying out of the vote because in my mind, this is an issue for the people of SC to deal with and I won't be stupid and tell them how they must behave.

Right, if you don't live in SC it is none of your business.


You are correct but that won't stop people from trying to make it theirs. They have a petition on move on with about 600,000 signatures. Just scrolling through the first hundred listed I noticed the majority of them are from out of state.




bounty44 -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/25/2015 4:13:23 AM)

that is one of the essences of liberals isn't it? minding someone else's business...




Lucylastic -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/25/2015 4:16:11 AM)

If it were only liberals...




crazyml -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/25/2015 4:29:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

that is one of the essences of liberals isn't it? minding someone else's business...


The term "minding someone else's business" can be recast a whole lot of ways.

Like "Giving a shit about justice and equality", for example.

If you're implying that liberals are more likely to pass laws that affect other people, then I'm not really sure that holds any water at all.

The "cons" in the USA have been ever so busy obeying their corporate masters and minding the business of the rich and powerful for ever and a day.




Lucylastic -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/25/2015 4:32:27 AM)

After Charleston shootings, poll highlights race dilemma for Republicans
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/25/us-usa-election-race-idUSKBN0P50DA20150625

Republican presidential contenders face a dilemma when talking about racial issues after last week's racially motivated murders at a South Carolina church, as a new poll shows many Republican primary voters are less likely to see the topic as important.

While more than three-quarters of Americans believe race relations must be addressed in the United States, a smaller majority of only about 65 percent of likely Republican primary voters agree, a new Reuters/Ipsos poll found. (Graphic: link.reuters.com/dun94w)

One-third of likely Republican primary voters see race relations as unimportant to some degree, compared to only 9 percent of likely Democratic voters who feel that way.

"There is a tension Republicans are trying to navigate, and they are really stuck between a rock and a hard place," said Ipsos pollster Chris Jackson.

"You have the majority of the public on one side, but the people who are actually going to vote for them in the primaries are less interested in this particular issue and may have different takes or alternate priorities altogether," he said.

The poll, carried out after the murder by a white gunman of nine black members of a Bible study group at a Charleston church, also found Democrats were more trusted to deal with race relations by more than a 2-to-1 margin.

The findings illustrate the Republican Party's challenge in trying to expand its appeal among minorities - crucial if the party is to win the presidency - and could help explain the largely muted response to the Charleston shootings by the party's 2016 presidential contenders.

Around a dozen hopefuls, who must court the white, conservative voters who dominate the party's primaries, largely steered clear of calls to action or policy prescriptions after the shootings, focusing instead on messages of condolence.

Several Republican presidential contenders and other party leaders did join South Carolina state officials earlier this week in calling for removal of the Confederate battle flag from in front of the State House, seat of the legislature, labeling it an act of healing and unity.

EXPANDING REPUBLICAN APPEAL

Republican National Committee spokesman Orlando Watson noted that call was led by Indian-American Governor Nikki Haley and a prominent black Republican, U.S. Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina.

"Republican leaders have stepped up and are working hard to address all voter concerns, including those involving race," he said.

After losing the 2012 presidential election, Republicans had vowed to expand their appeal beyond their shrinking base of white males and reach out to court new supporters among blacks, Hispanics, Asians and the young.

But blacks have for decades been the most loyal Democratic voting bloc, a trend only reinforced by the election of President Barack Obama, the first black in the White House.

When Obama won re-election in 2012, Mitt Romney received 6 percent of the black vote. No Republican presidential contender has won more than 12 percent of black votes since President Gerald Ford's 15 percent in 1976.

The poll found Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton was considered the presidential contender who was best suited to handle the issue of race relations, with 17 percent of all adults and 32 percent of blacks viewing her that way.

The top-ranked Republican was retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson, the only black Republican in the race. He was seen as best suited by 7 percent of all adults and 6 percent of blacks. Former Florida Governor Jeb Bush was next, with 6 percent of all adults and 1 percent of blacks viewing him as best suited.

Carson and Bush are among 13 candidates who have formally jumped into the race for the Republican presidential nomination in the November 2016 election.

Some respondents to the poll said the issue of race relations simply took a backseat to more heavily debated topics such as unemployment, crime, education and trade.

"I don't know if it's really an election issue, it's a people issue. Our political leaders can't change it," said Alex Jackson, a white Republican who is a student at West Georgia College in Carrolton, Georgia. She rated race relations as "somewhat unimportant."

Mary Wickham, a white Republican in Naperville, Illinois, who also said race relations were "somewhat unimportant", said she did not see it as an issue in her diverse community and she was much more interested in a candidate's views on immigration.

"It's just not a problem here," she said of racial issues. "We pray together, we stay together."

The online poll of 1,402 Americans was taken between June 18 and 22, and has a credibility interval, a measure of accuracy, of 3 percent for all Americans and 6.4 percent for Republican primary voters.




lovmuffin -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/25/2015 4:33:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

What about people equating what the Confederate Flag stands for with the Gay Pride Flag and saying, “Hey, that flag should be taken down too because all it represents is hatred towards Christians" ?


How many Christians did Gays enslave? And for how many years?

How many Christians have been lynched by Gays?

Please show me the photo of the nice water fountain labeled "Gays" next to the shitty looking fountain labeled "Christians."


Whose past might be more or less egregious is beside the point.


No, it's the whole point.

It is a silly nonsense to claim that the gay pride flag is representative of hatred towards christians. There is no history of hatred towards Christians associated with the gay pride flag.

The confederate flag, however, has very strong associations historically and culturally with slavery.

There is a world of difference.


I can certainly agree that the LBGT agenda is not as bad as slavery. My whole point is that many Christians are offendend by much of the gay agenda and their flag. Whether or not you think the gay pride flag should be offensive doesn't matter. Taken to an extreme, there are so many things different groups can find offensive it becomes rather absurd. Furthermore, the stars and bars in fact do not represent slavery. It's a freakin battle flag. No one except for an insignificant fringe group of losers has used it to represent hate.

Now we even have Louis Farrakhan being offended by the American flag. I'm sure he's not the only one and this offensiveness crap will probably go on forever from one thing to the next thus distracting us from the real damage the government is currently inflicting upon us right under our noses.




lovmuffin -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/25/2015 4:40:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


The "cons" in the USA have been ever so busy obeying their corporate masters and minding the business of the rich and powerful for ever and a day.


That particular democrat talking point has hypocrisy written all over it.




Marc2b -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/25/2015 5:25:49 AM)

quote:

Whose past might be more or less egregious is beside the point.


No it is not. It is EXACTLY the point!

You are making a false equivalency.





lovmuffin -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/25/2015 5:31:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Whose past might be more or less egregious is beside the point.


No it is not. It is EXACTLY the point!

You are making a false equivalency.




Then all I can say to that is what's in post # 96




Marc2b -> RE: South Carolina to Pull Confederate Flag (6/25/2015 5:50:22 AM)

quote:

I can certainly agree that the LBGT agenda is not as bad as slavery.


Not as bad? Not as Bad! Holy fuck! they're not even remotely related! One is about brutally oppressing people and exploiting them for profit, the other is about freeing people from the bigotry of others so they can lives as joyfully as they are able. Slavery and the LBGT "agenda" (oooo - scary word) are the exact opposite of each other.

quote:

Taken to an extreme, there are so many things different groups can find offensive it becomes rather absurd.


Like finding the Rainbow flag offensive, despite a lack of any objective or moral reason to do so. Anything taken to the extreme becomes absurd, which is why doing so useless.

quote:

Furthermore, the stars and bars in fact do not represent slavery. It's a freakin battle flag.


I think you mean the Southern Cross. The Stars and Bars was the official flag of the Confederacy for a time.

quote:

No one except for an insignificant fringe group of losers has used it to represent hate.


If only that were true.

quote:

Now we even have Louis Farrakhan being offended by the American flag.


The United States still exists. The Confederacy does not. Whatever actions by government or private citizens that may have tainted the Stars and Stripes, the U.S. remains a work in progress, still striving to fulfill that promissory note and defined as existing for reason other than preserving slavery (unlike some temporary countries I can think of).





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