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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I can only speak of the Australian experience. It may be that the Australian experience of AA is quite different to the US one but none of your questions are relevant to the Australian experience.

So, you're bowing out of the conversation, since you've just stated that the Australian experience is the only one you can speak of, and the questions I posed (which are pretty much the same ones being discussed throughout the thread) aren't relevant to the Australian experience?

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ORIGINAL: kdsub
Not meaning to hold your feet to the fire but the U.S. poverty threshold IS the only way to figure the poverty line... At least when it comes to government aid... And that is what we are talking about.

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As for the rest of your post who will be forcing anyone to do anything?
I am only talking about existing AF benefits and policies switching from race to economics... I am not even suggesting increasing the amount alotted... Just a switch.
My suggestion to extend public education is outside of AF and another subject.
Butch

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

The "War on Poverty" was introduced in 1964. The poverty rate and the gross number of people in poverty had been falling for the 5 years prior. 51 years later, and we're almost at the same rate we were at it's inception, and there are more people (gross number) in poverty now than before the number started falling in 1959! WTF?!?

Yea, thanx to Reagan's tax/deficit policies, payroll tax trippling, eviscerating unions and a cut in the ant-poverty programs.

Right. And, that's why, after the recession that happened at the beginning of Reagan's term, poverty levels dropped along with the gross number of people in poverty.

I see poverty falling under Reagan to still higher than at anytime in the Carter admin. Then rising again under Bush I and Clinton's first term, then falling again until Bush II then really going up with the Bush meltdown.

Poverty was rising under Carter, and then Reagan was elected and the '81 recession happened, further raising poverty. It's pretty close, but it does look like poverty rates were about the same at the beginning and ending of Reagan's 8 year Presidency. Bush II inherited the dotcom bubble burst at the end of the Clinton Presidency (poverty was already on the rise, too). I find it incredibly disingenuous that you're blaming Bush for the "Great Recession." Poverty happens.

http://budget.house.gov/waronpoverty/

$799B spent on programs designed to help low income Americans in 2012.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/09/the-war-on-poverty-after-50-years

$22T spent on anti-poverty spending in 50 years.

We have a higher number of Americans in poverty, and at about the same poverty rate.

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
So...correct me if I'm wrong here.....
Poverty increased in the 60's while govt. programs rose/increased to help the "disadvantaged"

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Poverty increased in the 90's while Jackson/Sharpton and others said "STOP THIS SHIT....you're keeping us down!!!!"

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(I'm lacking here as to the next phrase).

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I can only speak of the Australian experience. It may be that the Australian experience of AA is quite different to the US one but none of your questions are relevant to the Australian experience.

So, you're bowing out of the conversation, since you've just stated that the Australian experience is the only one you can speak of, and the questions I posed (which are pretty much the same ones being discussed throughout the thread) aren't relevant to the Australian experience?

Sorry to disappoint you but I prefer to post on subjects that I am informed about. There are enough idiotic posts here without me adding to them.

FWIW the kinds of criticisms you and others have been levelling at AA programs are also made by Right wingers here. I know that such criticisms (of Australian AA programs) are not valid. The people making these criticisms rely on anecdotal evidence - exactly like critics of AA here - and are unfamiliar with the literature on the subject, which tells a very different story. In short the critics don't know what they are talking about. Their criticisms are ideologically driven, not empirically or factually driven.

I rather suspect that this is also the case in the US but I don't know and TBH can't be bothered researching it. For anyone interested enough there is bound to be an extensive academic literature evaluating US AA programs, just like there is here. Google is your study mate.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
So...correct me if I'm wrong here.....
Poverty increased in the 60's while govt. programs rose/increased to help the "disadvantaged"

Nope. You're wrong. Poverty dropped after these programs began. They dropped quite a bit, initially, too. But, then, they leveled off and rose.

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Poverty increased in the 90's while Jackson/Sharpton and others said "STOP THIS SHIT....you're keeping us down!!!!"

Yep, though the two things may not have much more than a coincidental relationship.

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(I'm lacking here as to the next phrase).

How about: "We've been spending Trillions of dollars over the past 50 years, and we have more people in poverty than when we started."

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ORIGINAL: MercTech

Isn't one definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time?

Methinks the war on poverty has devolved into insanity.

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ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

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ORIGINAL: MercTech

Isn't one definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time?

Methinks the war on poverty has devolved into insanity.

Nope.....profit.