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ORIGINAL: Sanity

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ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

And if the men don't have sex it'll affect the number of women having sex/getting pregnant. It goes both ways. But this "personal responsibility" argument only seems to affect the women, nobody cares about the guys who run around knocking up women without a worry or care.

If it werent for child support laws you might have had something there

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Colorado’s Effort Against Teenage Pregnancies Is a Startling Success
WALSENBURG, Colo. — Over the past six years, Colorado has conducted one of the largest experiments with long-acting birth control. If teenagers and poor women were offered free intrauterine devices and implants that prevent pregnancy for years, state officials asked, would those women choose them?
They did in a big way, and the results were startling. The birthrate among teenagers across the state plunged by 40 percent from 2009 to 2013, while their rate of abortions fell by 42 percent, according to the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment. There was a similar decline in births for another group particularly vulnerable to unplanned pregnancies: unmarried women under 25 who have not finished high school.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/science/colorados-push-against-teenage-pregnancies-is-a-startling-success.html?_r=0
The highest teen pregnancy rates are all in RED STATES: NM, MS, TX, AR, LA, OK, NV, SC

One has to wonder what the teen pregnancy rate would have done if those women had decided to not have sex.

We don't have to wonder, of course, and the result would be the same if the men decided not to have sex. But of course, we'll only demonize the sexuality of half the population.
For one, why should we presume to tell women they shouldn't be having sex?
For another, how do you propose to stop them?

Sure, it takes two. I do apologize for not including the males in my question.

For one, no one said we'd tell the women they shouldn't be having sex.

For another, if they "decided to not have sex," no one would be needed to stop them.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Not giving kids the education about birth control and stds is deplorable.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Bristol Palin has some strong views on sexual abstinence ... perhaps we should consult her ...???? I would have to guess that hers is a particularly subjective definition.
Should we do what she says or do what she does?

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla
So exactly what is your point here?
Sure, we can sit around and declare that it'd be just so nice if women stopped doing something about their sex drives so we wouldn't need these programs, but we don't live in that fantasyland. People get horny, they fuck, regardless of their sex/gender. The fact that we're on this forum is evidence of that, and the reason why I'm so baffled that this is an issue.
Fact is, you can't stop women from having sex if they want to. (Unless they're trying to have sex with you, then that's a completely different issue.) We could also say flu outbreaks could be drastically reduced if people just decided to stay inside, but that ain't happening either. So from a public health perspective, it makes more sense to do something other than change human behavior.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Not giving kids the education about birth control and stds is deplorable.

No one, but you, has said anything about sex education.

Abstaining from sex is as effective at preventing STD's as using condoms.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
There was a story about an abstinence only school in texas just recently...20 students ended up(so far) with Chlamydia
http://www.aol.com/article/2015/05/07/an-abstinence-only-texas-high-school-has-chlamydia-outbreak/21180978/

Not giving kids the education about birth control and stds is deplorable.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Not giving kids the education about birth control and stds is deplorable.

No one, but you, has said anything about sex education.
Abstaining from sex is as effective at preventing STD's as using condoms.

Lmao you dont think that these women arent educated in this specific programs? Its all about education so they know that abstinence is no sexual contact at all?
we still have kids who think or "heard"that you cant get pregnant if you jump up and down after sex?
Education, and pre armed with correct info , goes a long way.
damn i thought i was getting old, really.....

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quote:

Now according to Texas law, schools have to spend more time teaching kids about abstinence than about any other sexual behavior.

This school doesn't have a sex education at all.

Even though study after study shows that abstinence-only education leads to higher rates of teenage pregnancy. If kids are getting chlamydia -- which is spread through unprotected sex -- they're certainly at risk of getting pregnant. Teens are obviously engaging in sexual activity. Preaching abstinence doesn't do much to stop them, but sex education can teach them to do it safely.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Then Im sorry you only responded to the wording I used, under the url I posted about Chlamydia, obviously you didnt read it....
http://www.aol.com/article/2015/05/07/an-abstinence-only-texas-high-school-has-chlamydia-outbreak/21180978/which is WHERE my comment came from'

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Now according to Texas law, schools have to spend more time teaching kids about abstinence than about any other sexual behavior.
This school doesn't have a sex education at all.
Even though study after study shows that abstinence-only education leads to higher rates of teenage pregnancy. If kids are getting chlamydia -- which is spread through unprotected sex -- they're certainly at risk of getting pregnant. Teens are obviously engaging in sexual activity. Preaching abstinence doesn't do much to stop them, but sex education can teach them to do it safely.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Well if you do any reading, you know that "abstinence" states whose leadership is highly tied to religion have sky-high teen age pregnancy rates. This is a FACT.

I don't know the background of DET -- but like I said, COLO offers a model to attack the problem.

What the larger point here is that RED STATES don't want a solution, they want instead to observe religious principles. I might also point out that DET is a city and not a state.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Bristol Palin has some strong views on sexual abstinence ... perhaps we should consult her ...???? I would have to guess that hers is a particularly subjective definition.
Should we do what she says or do what she does?

What does it matter, to this thread, what Bristol Palin says or does?

Are you saying that she wouldn't have gotten pregnant if she walked the walk she talks? Be careful of your answer to that, though. If you agree she wouldn't have gotten pregnant, you'd actually be siding with me.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Lmao...yes thats right, i must bow to your supreme logic of abstinence, is all we women need.
bollocks.
You took me on, you failed , thread drift....happens....dont respond to it if you cant take the heat in the first place.

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If you cant see that your defense of abstinence led to actual proof that abstinence only isnt always a gooood idea without actual education about the reality of any sexual activity. Condoms , birth control and education have more to do with unplanned pregnancy figures, dropping than abstinence has.

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Oh unless you buy into denying women access to health and family planning to teens , and women of all ages, is the moral thing to do.
Yes its part of the topic.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Bristol Palin has some strong views on sexual abstinence ... perhaps we should consult her ...???? I would have to guess that hers is a particularly subjective definition.
Should we do what she says or do what she does?

What does it matter, to this thread, what Bristol Palin says or does?
Are you saying that she wouldn't have gotten pregnant if she walked the walk she talks? Be careful of your answer to that, though. If you agree she wouldn't have gotten pregnant, you'd actually be siding with me.

I was trying to highlight that programs that rely exclusively on abstinence don't work - when one of the principal proponents of abstinence gets pregnant the flaws in that approach are obvious. People are not going to stop having sex no matter what others may say or do.

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Alternative approaches particularly those that empower teens to make informed and sensible choices for themselves through education are far more effective ways to deal with this issue. My experience in education tells me that when treated like responsible thinking people, teens mostly respond in responsible thoughtful ways, as I believe the stats quoted in the OP confirm. Treating people like idiots - like pretending that they aren't going to have sex or take drugs for example - tends to generate irresponsible reactions.
If people wish to use religious dogma to inform their sexual choices that's fine for them, but to impose this approach on all is an approach guaranteed to fail. Education empowers teens to make informed sensible choices for themselves.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Bristol Palin has some strong views on sexual abstinence ... perhaps we should consult her ...???? I would have to guess that hers is a particularly subjective definition.
Should we do what she says or do what she does?

What does it matter, to this thread, what Bristol Palin says or does?
Are you saying that she wouldn't have gotten pregnant if she walked the walk she talks? Be careful of your answer to that, though. If you agree she wouldn't have gotten pregnant, you'd actually be siding with me.

I was trying to highlight that programs that rely exclusively on abstinence don't work - when one of the principal proponents of abstinence gets pregnant the flaws in that approach are obvious. People are not going to stop having sex no matter what others may say or do.

Obviously, Bristol Palin didn't walk the walk she talked, else, she'd not have gotten pregnant. Please tell me you agree with that statement.

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quote:

Alternative approaches particularly those that empower teens to make informed and sensible choices for themselves through education are far more effective ways to deal with this issue. My experience in education tells me that when treated like responsible thinking people, teens mostly respond in responsible thoughtful ways, as I believe the stats quoted in the OP confirm. Treating people like idiots - like pretending that they aren't going to have sex or take drugs for example - tends to generate irresponsible reactions.
If people wish to use religious dogma to inform their sexual choices that's fine for them, but to impose this approach on all is an approach guaranteed to fail. Education empowers teens to make informed sensible choices for themselves.

Where did I call for "abstinence-only" education? Where? Good luck finding it. I don't agree with it. When my boys get to that age (and one is getting close), my advice will be: "Don't have sex until you're ready to deal with the potential consequences (pregnancy, STD's, etc.), but if you are going to have sex, use protection." I might even provide condoms, just in case.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Yep I agree with your statement. But the larger point that I was trying to highlight relates to the deficencies of abstinence-only campaigns
I'm glad to hear that you aren't proposing abstinence only education in this area. And I am heartened to hear that you will be giving your boys some sound advice.

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