RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/21/2015 10:35:17 AM)

No, you learn to read. There are no conservatives here (besides myself) there are only 'conservatives' who are nothing of the kind, they are simply free market communists.




KenDckey -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/21/2015 2:28:01 PM)

quote:

mnottertail
No, you learn to read. There are no conservatives here (besides myself) there are only 'conservatives' who are nothing of the kind, they are simply free market communists.



Market socialism is also contrasted with social democratic policies implemented within capitalist market economies: while social democracy aims to achieve greater economic stability and equality through policy measures such as taxes, subsidies and social welfare programs; market socialism aims to achieve similar goals through changing patterns of enterprise ownership and management.[9]

(9) Roosevelt, Frank; David Belkin (1994). Why Market Socialism?. M.E. Sharpe, Inc. p. 314. ISBN 1-56324-465-9. "Social democracy achieves greater egalitarianism via ex post government taxes and subsidies, where market socialism does so via ex ante changes in patterns of enterprise ownership."

Market socialism is a type of economic system involving the public, cooperative or social ownership of the means of production in the framework of a market economy. Market socialism differs from non-market socialism in that the market mechanism is utilized for the allocation of capital goods and the means of production.[1][2][3] Depending on the specific model of market socialism, profits generated by socially owned firms may variously be used to directly remunerate employees, accrue to society at large as the source of public finance, or be distributed amongst the population in a social dividend.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism#Marxism.E2.80.93Leninism

Economies ranging from the United States[3][4] to Cuba[5] have been catalogued as mixed economies. The term is also used to describe the economies of countries which are referred to as welfare states, such as the Nordic countries.[6][7] Governments in mixed economies often provide environmental protection, maintenance of employment standards, a standardized welfare system, and maintenance of competition.


(3) U.S. Economy - Basic Conditions & Resources. U.S. Diplomatic Mission to Germany. "The United States is said to have a mixed economy because privately owned businesses and government both play important roles." Accessed: October 24, 2011.
(4)Outline of the U.S. Economy – (2)How the U.S. Economy Works. U.S. Embassy Information Resource Center. "As a result, the American economy is perhaps better described as a "mixed" economy, with government playing an important role along with private enterprise. Although Americans often disagree about exactly where to draw the line between their beliefs in both free enterprise and government management, the mixed economy they have developed has been remarkably successful." Accessed: October 24, 2011.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economy

A free market is a market system in which the prices for goods and services are set freely by consent between vendors and consumers, in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority. A free market contrasts with a controlled market or regulated market, in which government intervenes in supply and demand through non-market methods such as laws creating barriers to market entry or directly setting prices. A free market economy is a market-based economy where prices for goods and services are set freely by the forces of supply and demand and are allowed to reach their point of equilibrium without intervention by government policy, and it typically entails support for highly competitive markets and private ownership of productive enterprises.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market

Capitalism is an economic system and a mode of production in which trade, industries, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned. Private firms and proprietorships usually operate in order to generate profit, but may operate as private nonprofit organizations.[1][2] Central characteristics of capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labour and, in some situations, fully competitive markets.[3][4] In a capitalist economy, the parties to a transaction typically determine the prices at which they exchange assets, goods, and services.[5]

The degree of competition, the role of intervention and regulation, and the scope of state ownership vary across different models of capitalism.[6]

"Capitalism" Oxford Dictionaries. "capitalism. an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state." Retrieved 4 January 2013.
Chris Jenks. Core Sociological Dichotomies. "Capitalism, as a mode of production, is an economic system of manufacture and exchange which is geared toward the production and sale of commodities within a market for profit, where the manufacture of commodities consists of the use of the formally free labor of workers in exchange for a wage to create commodities in which the manufacturer extracts surplus value from the labor of the workers in terms of the difference between the wages paid to the worker and the value of the commodity produced by him/her to generate that profit." London, England, UK; Thousand Oaks, California, USA; New Delhi, India: SAGE. p. 383.
Heilbroner, Robert L. "capitalism." Durlauf, Steven N.and Lawrence E. Blume, eds., The New Palgrave Dictionary of Economics. 2nd ed. (Palgrave Macmillan, 2008) doi:10.1057/9780230226203.0198
Louis Hyman and Edward E. Baptist (2014). American Capitalism: A Reader. Simon & Schuster. ISBN 9781476784311.
"an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market"
Macmillan Dictionary of Modern Economics, 3rd Ed., 1986, p. 54.

I am a conservative and I believe in a mixed economy. Seems like you don't understand much other than expousing hate.




mnottertail -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/21/2015 2:52:42 PM)

Lots of crap by crapologists. I will set the price of a new car at 1000 dollars. Cuz thats a free market as defined.

Free markets are communism, done over finished.

I have a 13 Trillion Dollar Economy, the Koreans have a 1.3 Trill Economy, and we will have free market trade with one another. What happens? I open up the largest economy in the world to them, they cant afford or wont buy a few thousand hooves of beef.

Get real, its communism, take from me and share with them.




KenDckey -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/21/2015 3:43:09 PM)

Sounds like you just decided you were dictator today and the rest of us must folllow your lead. Just saying. Oh, but if you win, I'll buy that $1,000 car as long as it is half way good and sound.




Politesub53 -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/21/2015 3:52:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Sounds like you just decided you were dictator today and the rest of us must folllow your lead. Just saying. Oh, but if you win, I'll buy that $1,000 car as long as it is half way good and sound.


I`ll buy it for $1,100 whatever the condition, just to show you how the free market works.




KenDckey -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/21/2015 3:55:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Sounds like you just decided you were dictator today and the rest of us must folllow your lead. Just saying. Oh, but if you win, I'll buy that $1,000 car as long as it is half way good and sound.


I`ll buy it for $1,100 whatever the condition, just to show you how the free market works.


ROFLMAO I don't want to do like the Military did when leaving france (taught this in supply school) and purchase vehicles without tires (or engines) lol




KenDckey -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/23/2015 2:32:06 AM)

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2568762

documents were withheld from Congress and the public. wonder what is in them.




mnottertail -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/23/2015 7:31:18 AM)

Except they aren't. Read the fucking thing. Nevermind it is the 'examiner'.




Musicmystery -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/23/2015 12:10:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Sounds like you just decided you were dictator today and the rest of us must folllow your lead. Just saying. Oh, but if you win, I'll buy that $1,000 car as long as it is half way good and sound.


I`ll buy it for $1,100 whatever the condition, just to show you how the free market works.


ROFLMAO I don't want to do like the Military did when leaving france (taught this in supply school) and purchase vehicles without tires (or engines) lol

Nope. Today the military just abandons them and buys all new ones, leaving the perfectly fine ones behind for the enemy to use for free: http://www.rt.com/news/263769-iraq-isis-humvees-weapons/

They teach you that in supply school too?




KenDckey -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/23/2015 1:06:26 PM)

quote:

Musicmystery

Nope. Today the military just abandons them and buys all new ones, leaving the perfectly fine ones behind for the enemy to use for free: http://www.rt.com/news/263769-iraq-isis-humvees-weapons/

They teach you that in supply school too?


No those things are a political decision. I think they did it under the guise of letting the Iraqi army to defend themselves. I will agree that a few RORO's would have been avail to bring them home so we could reissue them. Even a few break bulk's would have been nice.




Sanity -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/23/2015 9:34:21 PM)


quote:

Kerry Says 'Nobody Has Ever Talked About Dismantling' Iran's Nuclear Program, But in 2013 Insisted Dismantlement Was The 'Whole Point' of Sanctions Regime

Kerry in 2013: 'We knew that it would hopefully help Iran dismantle its nuclear program'




tweakabelle -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/24/2015 1:48:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

Kerry Says 'Nobody Has Ever Talked About Dismantling' Iran's Nuclear Program, But in 2013 Insisted Dismantlement Was The 'Whole Point' of Sanctions Regime

Kerry in 2013: 'We knew that it would hopefully help Iran dismantle its nuclear program'


So what is your alternative Sanity?

As far as I can see, the only alternative to an agreed plan to limit Iran's nuclear program is war. Is this what you want? Will the military option prove successful, or will we have another Iraq on our hands? Best you outline how and why the military option will prove to be more successful than an agreement ... good luck with that.

Experience has taught us that neo-con policies prove disastrous in the Middle East. Is there any reason to believe that this time the neo-cons' predictions will result in an successful outcome this time, unlike previous outcomes? Do you support the Netanyahoo approach - permanent confrontation and war?




KenDckey -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/24/2015 5:03:48 AM)

Personally, I think Obama is setting up Isreal to solve the problem for him. Probaby isn't true, Just my thoughts.




mnottertail -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/24/2015 7:57:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

Kerry Says 'Nobody Has Ever Talked About Dismantling' Iran's Nuclear Program, But in 2013 Insisted Dismantlement Was The 'Whole Point' of Sanctions Regime

Kerry in 2013: 'We knew that it would hopefully help Iran dismantle its nuclear program'




That is not what was said, that is rabid rightwing spin. Even the articles refute themselves, and are typical...do not point to the facts or even the actual quotes, but what they wanted it to say, they ignore reality because it does not agree with their hallucinogenic hysterical narrative.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/24/2015 8:43:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

Kerry Says 'Nobody Has Ever Talked About Dismantling' Iran's Nuclear Program, But in 2013 Insisted Dismantlement Was The 'Whole Point' of Sanctions Regime

Kerry in 2013: 'We knew that it would hopefully help Iran dismantle its nuclear program'




That is not what was said, that is rabid rightwing spin. Even the articles refute themselves, and are typical...do not point to the facts or even the actual quotes, but what they wanted it to say, they ignore reality because it does not agree with their hallucinogenic hysterical narrative.

And when it comes directly from Kerry's mouth...source: U.S. Dept. of State...is that rabid, right-wing spin also?

"But I don’t think that any of us thought we were just imposing these sanctions for the sake of imposing them. We did it because we knew that it would hopefully help Iran dismantle its nuclear program. That was the whole point of the regime."

http://m.state.gov/md218578.htm




mnottertail -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/24/2015 8:58:18 AM)

Ja, I guess we will call you a fucking liar because you said, "...And when it comes directly from Kerry's mouth..." We know that is false, those typed words came from a website, that might be quoting Kerry's actual words, but those pixels did not come from Kerry's mouth..

Quibbling and mincing asswipe, both of them. Spin and out of context. Clearly he was talking weapons, and that is true, we never said nor have EVER (even the rabid sackers) tried to talk them out of nuclear power, just weapons materiel. EVER.





Sanity -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/24/2015 9:06:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So what is your alternative Sanity?

As far as I can see, the only alternative to an agreed plan to limit Iran's nuclear program is war. Is this what you want? Will the military option prove successful, or will we have another Iraq on our hands? Best you outline how and why the military option will prove to be more successful than an agreement ... good luck with that.

Experience has taught us that neo-con policies prove disastrous in the Middle East. Is there any reason to believe that this time the neo-cons' predictions will result in an successful outcome this time, unlike previous outcomes? Do you support the Netanyahoo approach - permanent confrontation and war?


That you see only in terms of black and white doesnt affect reality.




tweakabelle -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/24/2015 9:18:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So what is your alternative Sanity?

As far as I can see, the only alternative to an agreed plan to limit Iran's nuclear program is war. Is this what you want? Will the military option prove successful, or will we have another Iraq on our hands? Best you outline how and why the military option will prove to be more successful than an agreement ... good luck with that.

Experience has taught us that neo-con policies prove disastrous in the Middle East. Is there any reason to believe that this time the neo-cons' predictions will result in an successful outcome this time, unlike previous outcomes? Do you support the Netanyahoo approach - permanent confrontation and war?


That you see only in terms of black and white doesnt affect reality.


So you have no alternative plan or strategy, just a lot of bellicose ranting, and cheerleading for war. And too cowardly/dishonest to own up to it and say it openly. Utterly pathetic.




Sanity -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/24/2015 9:21:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Personally, I think Obama is setting up Isreal to solve the problem for him. Probaby isn't true, Just my thoughts.


Its interesting that Obamas partnership with his fascist Iranian Shia friends has resulted in our former allies Israel and the Arabs beginning to partner up, at least privately








Sanity -> RE: Agreement reached on Iran nuclear program (7/24/2015 9:32:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

That you see only in terms of black and white doesnt affect reality.


So you have no alternative plan or strategy, just a lot of bellicose ranting, and cheerleading for war. And too cowardly/dishonest to own up to it and say it openly. Utterly pathetic.


Your mind reading efforts arent nearly as successful as you imagine they are. [:D]




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