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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/19/2015 2:48:04 AM   
JVoV


Posts: 3664
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Status: offline 		You forgot politicians. Biggest hookers of all.

(in reply to DerangedUnit)
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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 2:56:12 PM   
TimYearneau


Posts: 20
Joined: 7/8/2015
Status: offline 		A prostitute is usually a woman who has been sexually abused and is living in a personal hell. I don't see them because I believe that action contributes to that system. It's the same way I feel about drugs. If a person buys cocaine they are contributing to that system. So if a webcam girl is the same thing as a prostitute I wouldn't want to contribute to it. However, if they are innocent young college women just trying to make ends meet, that's a different story.

< Message edited by TimYearneau -- 7/20/2015 3:18:26 PM >

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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 3:09:34 PM   
spellslave


Posts: 246
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From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TimYearneau

A prostitute is usually a woman who has been sexually abused and is living in a personal hell. I don't see because I believe I contribute to that system. It's the same way I feel about drugs. If a person buys cocaine they are contributing to that system. So if a webcam girl is the same thing as a prostitute I wouldn't want to contribute to it. However, if they are innocent young college women just trying to make ends meet, that's a different story.


You do realise that there are prostitutes, webcam girls and escorts that actually willingly got into the job and enjoy it, right? While there are, no doubt, those who entered into the adult industry through some unfortunate or unwilling path, it isn't necessarily going to always be the case.

_____________________________

Fetlife: spellslave

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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 3:14:01 PM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TimYearneau

A prostitute is usually a woman who has been sexually abused and is living in a personal hell.


If that's even true (and I don't even know how you would know it if it was) then that's only the case in certain locations.

It's my experience that in locations where prostitution is legal this isn't the case at all.
I've been a hooker, and the above is definitively not true for me in the slightest.
I know a lot of a hookers, and in my experience, most of them do the job because they prefer it to the alternatives available (you know... the same way most people do the job they have because they prefer it over the alternative jobs available to them), not because of some deep dark past trauma they can't detach from.
Sure, what you're saying might be the case for street walkers in some cities (I don't really have much experience there) but call girls, or hookers in countries/locations where prostitution is legal are rarely doing it because they don't have alternatives available.
They're doing it because the alternatives don't pay as well.

Sexual abuse/trauma/low self-esteem usually doesn't come in the equation, and the few cases where I have seen it, they didn't hook for very long, instead decided that flipping burgers at McDonald's wasn't that bad of a job after all, even if it didn't pay as well.

< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 7/20/2015 3:16:49 PM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 3:21:34 PM   
TimYearneau


Posts: 20
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Status: offline 		http://www.womenslaw.org/simple.php?sitemap_id=148

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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 3:22:49 PM   
TimYearneau


Posts: 20
Joined: 7/8/2015
Status: offline 		http://www.rapeis.org/activism/prostitution/prostitutionfacts.html


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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 3:31:32 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline 		You can post me all the links you want, that ain't going to change my opinion, because my opinion is based on actual experience being a hooker, hanging out with hookers, and talking to hookers.

I am going to believe that actual experience over the random stuff organisations who wish to see prostitution banned (and therefore have a benefit from fudging facts, and presenting only the worst possible cases).

99% of the issues with prostitution stem from it being illegal, which is liberally proven by the fact that European countries where prostitution IS legal have almost no issues with it (and the few issues they do have are not even on the same plain as the issues the US has with it).
You can believe those awful stats and stories in those links from organisations who want prostitution banned all you want. I just know that in my experience, none of the many hookers I've met and am friends with fall into those categories so your claim that they are usually women who have been sexually abuse is made up crap because of your personal feelings about the subject.




< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 7/20/2015 3:33:32 PM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to TimYearneau)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 4:43:05 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		I agree with you completely UllrsIshtar. My slave became a sex-worker by her own choice and she enjoyed almost every minute of it; gave good service and had a very good client base. I can virtually guarantee that she was never sexually abused as I was good friends with her father and still am good friends with her brother. We too knew/know a lot of sex workers locally and they all laugh at the idea they were sexually abused. Some do it because the money is good for the amount of work required, some do it because they enjoy it, but I know of NONE who do it because they were abused.
There seems to be a peculiar obsession in the U.S. ( and a number of other countries too) about prostitution. Many of the people who condemn it know little or nothing about it at all, so they make up their minds in such a way that they are not confused with facts. As you stated, countries that have legal prostitution seem to have little or no problems in the areas TY seems to be stressing about.

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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 5:05:26 PM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

My slave became a sex-worker by her own choice and she enjoyed almost every minute of it; gave good service and had a very good client base.


Same here. I got into it because it seemed to be a fun exciting new thing to try. It was fun, and I was in completely control the entire time.

I quite because it ended up being too much work (if you can believe that) because my ex didn't like me working the window in my home town (cause his dad and brother were regular customers). After the new and shiny wore off, I decided the money wasn't worth the 8 hour round trip train ride.

Guiding me through my experience was a friend of mine who'd been in the business for 25 years at that point. She showed me the ropes (no not the fucking part, the how to attract the kind of guy you want, and get your window in a good building and stuff) and introduced me around to the girls she knew. After work we'd all go party together (and often fuck some more for free if you can believe that). I got to talk to a bunch of different hookers from different backgrounds, and swapping stories on the how/why a chick got into the business was common place.

Not once did I hear a story of galls getting into it as young as 14 (the average starting age according to TY's links) let alone this being an 'average' (which implies lots of em should have gotten in even sooner). The extend of the 'trauma' most of them dealt with was the social stigma of not being able to share with friends and family what they did for a living. On top of that, every single one of them was sick and tired of people who did find out assuming that they must be in the business because they were abused, addicted, or forced... If you want to piss of a hooker, tell her she's only doing the work cause she's a victim.

About the worst story I ever heard was from Eastern European girls who came to the West hoping for riches, and disillusioned about the West's opportunity got the best paying job they could find instead. Yet none of them would have picked to go back rather than to prostitute themselves.

The few times a girl started while thinking only about the money, and being upset or repulsed at the idea of having to fuck strangers, she ended up quitting after just a few times. Usually halfway through her first shift. If you don't like sex, you don't last in this business (and you won't make much either, cause the guys will pick a new girl next time).



< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 7/20/2015 5:12:36 PM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Dvr22999874)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 5:25:32 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TimYearneau

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT PRO-DOMME OR DOMINANT WOMEN WHO REQUIRE A TRIBUTE

There are so many webcam sites and the women will do almost any type of BDSM on webcam for money. Many will penetrate themselves with a dildo if you pay them. However, there is no physical contact and no intercourse.

Would you consider them prostitutes?


Who the fuck cares?

If they stick a gawdamn ICBM up their snatch and charge more for same than the federal govt. does for a hammer or a motherfucking toilet seat.....why do you give a fuck?

You're here 'cause you want to talk to chics.

Naked chics would be a whole lot better but....chics....talking...good stuff.....chics....wimmens....females....nekkid ones....all kinds....

Every porn site (this would be one...some would debate that...I wouldn't....considering how many men sign up vs. wimmens....) is all about how to see more, connect with more, have more, talk to more.....chics.

So....seriously....WTF? Why do you care if they charge you to fuck you or.....charge you something less to chat?

That's what you're here for....to connect in some fashion.....to chics.

Tim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get the fuck over it!!!!

(in reply to TimYearneau)
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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 5:27:00 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline 		(Sorry.....couldn't he'p m'sef).

(I'll stop now).

(Ohhhhhhh....those that know me know.....that's a lie :) )

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 7/20/2015 5:28:32 PM >

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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 5:36:12 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline 		I get the distinct impression that the reality is that TY is pissed off because he's not a female and can't work as a hooker. He could still do so as a male but maybe that thought hasn't occurred to him ?
Go for it TY.............the back door is always open to paying customers................although it IS said that if sex gives you a pain in the ass, your doing something wrong.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 6:26:25 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

You forgot politicians. Biggest hookers of all.

...and bankers. OR...maybe they are the pimps.

(in reply to JVoV)
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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 7:12:54 PM   
Wayward5oul


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Joined: 11/9/2014
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Actually, there is a lot of established and ongoing research on this topic. It is a major area of interest by many groups, including some that want sex work eradicated entirely to groups that advocate for decriminalization and regulation. Pretty much across the board they agree discount many of the statements made in this thread regarding prostitution.

In one study of individuals in prostitution in South Africa, Turkey, Thailand, Zambia, and the U.S., it was found that:
92% expressed wanting to leave prostitution immediately
62% reported being raped in prostitution
72% were currently or formerly homeless
67% met the criterion for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder
http://sagesf.org/worldwide-systems-prostitution

Individuals who enter the sex industries as teenagers or adults are also very likely to have had prior experiences with child sexual abuse.

In the U.S., the average age of entry into prostitution is 14.
http://sagesf.org/who-involved-systems-prostitution

91% of prostituted women who were sexually abused as children told no one.
https://www.fcasv.org/sites/default/files/Child%20Physical%20and%20Sexual%20Abuse%20as%20a%20Common%20Factor%20for%20Domestic%20Minor%20Sex%20Trafficking%20Taryn%20Mastrean.pdf

96% of prostituted victims who entered prostitution as juveniles were runaways. Most stated they had no other option for making money.

70% of prostituted victims believed that being sexually abused as children influenced their decisions to become prostitutes.

Studies of violence experienced by women in prostitution prior to entering prostitution show 60% to 70% were sexually abused as children[26] that 65% had been raped, most before the age of 15,[27] and that many young women and girls enter prostitution directly from state care in at least England, Norway, Australia and Canada.[28]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_on_prostitution




(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 7:30:53 PM   
daniel1973


Posts: 243
Joined: 6/16/2015
Status: offline 		I never pay for sex, this is precisely why.

Edit: I do however believe that the ones working in the sex industry should not be treated worse than others.
In Germany prostitutes have to pay their taxes but then again they can claim health benefits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huoa2Ylnmz8

Not so stupid, is it: "Don't judge me, you could be me in another set of circumstances." ... "I don't need forgiving, I'm just making a living."

And still, I'm grateful for every day that I don't have to do that.

< Message edited by daniel1973 -- 7/20/2015 7:56:31 PM >

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 7:34:24 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

In one study of individuals in prostitution in South Africa, Turkey, Thailand, Zambia, and the U.S., it was found that:



Yeah, you research prostitution in countries where it's illegal and you hit problems.

And nearly none of those problems exist in locals where it is legal.

Which is why I said that the possibility of "A prostitute is usually a woman who has been sexually abused and is living in a personal hell." is, if true, a matter of location.

In locations where prostitution is legal, this isn't at all the case in my experience, so rallying against prostitution doesn't solve anything.
Making it illegal because "it's bad for the women involved" makes it worse for the women involved, and denies all those who aren't like that the opportunity to make an honest living.

Either way, the blank assumption that because of there being problems when it's illegal meaning that almost all women involved are abuse victims is preposterous.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 7:46:06 PM   
TimYearneau


Posts: 20
Joined: 7/8/2015
Status: offline 		I did google the countries where prostitution is legal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_by_country

I then googled prostitution in those countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Mexico
"Child prostitution is a problem in the country, and Mexico continues to be a destination for pedophiles who engage in child sex tourism. Mexico is one of the leading hot spots of child sexual exploitation, along with Thailand, Cambodia, Colombia, India, and Brazil."
"Mexico is a source, transit, and destination country for persons trafficked for the purposes of commercial sexual exploitation."

In each country child prostitution, forced prostitution, sexual slavery and human trafficking is wide spread.


(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 7:59:26 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
In locations where prostitution is legal, this isn't at all the case in my experience, so rallying against prostitution doesn't solve anything.

I am not rallying against it.

quote:

Making it illegal because "it's bad for the women involved" makes it worse for the women

Agreed. That's why you have organizations like the Sex Workers Project, which works as an advocate for decriminalization, along with providing services on behalf of sex workers and improving their working environment.

An article that is an easy read and makes a convincing argument.
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-america-should-legalize-prostitution-2013-11

quote:

Either way, the blank assumption that because of there being problems when it's illegal meaning that almost all women involved are abuse victims is preposterous.

Read the literature. Some of this is places where it is legal. That said, many blanket statements were made in this thread, using terms like 'all', '99%', 'not a single one', etc, and ridiculing of others, all in an effort to discredit this idea, based on a few anecdotal experiences.

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RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 9:07:45 PM   
crumpets


Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline 		Definition of prostitution varies by the local mores of each jurisdiction.

Here, in California, it can be summarized (verbatim) as:
quote:


Prostitution, simply put, means to engage in a sexual act in exchange for money or other consideration (that is, other goods or services).


1. California Prostitution & Solicitation Laws Penal Code 647(b) PC
2. Prostitution Laws of California
3. California Prostitution Laws
4. CAL. PEN. CODE ยง 647 : California Code - Section 647
etc.

So, the question, in this jurisdiction, is simply whether the web camming is a sexual act.
Is it?

(in reply to DerangedUnit)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Do You Consider Webcam Women Prostitutes? - 7/20/2015 9:43:26 PM   
JVoV


Posts: 3664
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: offline 		From link #2:

653.20
For purposes of this chapter, the following definitions apply:
(a) "Commit prostitution" means to engage in sexual conduct for money or other consideration, but does not include sexual conduct engaged in as a part of any stage performance, play, or other entertainment open to the public.

It's acting!!

< Message edited by JVoV -- 7/20/2015 9:44:10 PM >

(in reply to crumpets)
Profile   Post #: 40
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