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RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 7/30/2015 8:15:55 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I was just watching Public Television and they say another video has emerged showing that the officer was dragged and on the ground for a few seconds, all they showed however was a picture with the officer on his knees... but to me it makes no difference... Lack of a licence plate is just no reason to shoot someone. It seemed like he was holding on to be dragged, running along beside the window with his hand and arm in the car, and could have let go easily at any time. Otherwise he was in no immediate danger of being injured if he let go. If the driver were really trying to get away the officer could not run and hang on let alone shoot point blank in the head... it is a strange case.

Despite what the prosecuting attorney is saying I think when it goes to court, with an impartial jury, if they try to pin murder on him he will be acquitted. If the prosecutor is smart and goes for a lesser charge I believe it would stick.

Butch

You know he wasn't shot for the traffic offense but for the dragging.
This would seem to make murder a lost cause,and, as usual, the prosecutor has overcharged.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 7/30/2015 8:17:01 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Mr. Rodgers, with the body cams and the video camera's in the squad car's, hopefully the number of these incidents will decline.

That is the point of having body cams and video camera's.
It protects everyone involved.

I dont know about the car cams but body cams can be turned off by the officer.. the officer in the Bland case also moved her out of the view of the car cam so while cams can help, some cops will learn how to reduce the amount of video proof of their actions.. But people are starting to put cams in their own cars to video any stops by the police, and the more that people do that, the better..

And Realone is right, its pretty hard to get a conviction.. there have been cases where imo the cops should have gone to jail for a long time but instead they were found not guilty & walked.. but if this guy is just a rent-a-cop he may not be as lucky as a real cop would be..

He isn't a rent a cop.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 7/30/2015 8:20:10 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I know why he was shot... or at least the excuse... but the bottom line it was a traffic violation that precipitated his death. Under no circumstance should this have resulted in his death...unless the officer's life was truly in danger... I cannot see how it was.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/30/2015 8:22:07 PM >

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RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 7/30/2015 9:17:46 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I know why he was shot... or at least the excuse... but the bottom line it was a traffic violation that precipitated his death. Under no circumstance should this have resulted in his death...unless the officer's life was truly in danger... I cannot see how it was.

Butch

You even said that the cop was drug 20-30 feet, that can affect your view.
I didn't say the cop was faultless I said murder is overcharging.
There is zero indication the cop would have shot him over a traffic violation, and it wasn't the cop who escalated things.
There is no reason to flee and drag a cop over a traffic stop now is there?
That isn't an excuse that is the reason.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 7/30/2015 9:34:37 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		As I posted before... If I put my foot to the gas there would be no way you could run with my car... Get out a gun...and shoot me head center. I find the dragging part a little unbelievable... It seemed to me the car was moving at a slow pace.. Slow enough he could run along side... his life was not in danger...We will see what the investigation turns up in court.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/30/2015 9:36:05 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 7/30/2015 9:45:27 PM   
igor2003


Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

As I posted before... If I put my foot to the gas there would be no way you could run with my car... Get out a gun...and shoot me head center. I find the dragging part a little unbelievable... It seemed to me the car was moving at a slow pace.. Slow enough he could run along side... his life was not in danger...We will see what the investigation turns up in court.

Butch


I agree. It seems to me that any "dragging" that took place happened AFTER DuBose was shot. An autopsy report showing where the head wound was located might tell a lot.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 7/31/2015 3:05:54 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

this is only the tip of the iceberg.

this runs through every part of gubmint, from the officer, to the municipal, county, state, federal and finally state and federal courts using their 'reasonable' legal theories to give themselves powers not granted in the constitution by narrow rulings under the 'label' of officer safety. [constitutional 'death' by a thousand cuts]

the inside of your automobile is your private space, this is easily understood when looking at protections noted by the courts. It carries your personal effects including your body. They always demand you step outside to get you on the 'public' turf.

yep the cop pulled out his weapon, blew his brains under threat of Dubose fleaing the stop. /sarcasm to the max




Agreed. He had no business reaching in to get the gin bottle, but he did. That was his first egregious error that showed he was either poorly trained or didn't give a rat's ass about his training.

Like some others on here, I know actual police officers, and of course routine traffic stops (along with domestic calls) rank the highest in the need of good officer training, since they have most potential to escalate.

In this case, the officer HIMSELF did the escalating. The man told him clear as day that he had a drivers license, that he couldn't find it, and to 'call it in' b/c he knew the officer would see a license on the records. At that point the officer should have called it in. Of course, he couldn't, he hadn't bothered to ask the man's name.

If the officer *really* thought he was engaging with a dangerous criminal, he should have went back to his squad car, did some quick research, and called for back up.

One person forcing another to gt out of a car is just too difficult. The *only* way to do it is by brute force, or getting your weapon out. Officers are supposed to be trained that getting your weapon out is NOT the first thing you do when you encounter resistance.

Now, I will agree that (in theory) the man should have gotten out of the car when asked. And I am asking myself why he didn't. From his voice, it's clear to me at least that the office was escalating the interaction in a very negative way (he taunts by saying that his license has been revoked). I'd love to have a cam that showed the officer's face along with the rest of his body language. I've no doubt that it spoke volumes: I am a dangerous, out of control police office, and any interaction between me and a person of color will escalate to violence, b/c that's how I like it.

The man fled to save his life, and failed.







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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 7/31/2015 12:16:24 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

He had no business reaching in to get the gin bottle, but he did.

Except he didn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJus8tU6NCE

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

the officer HIMSELF did the escalating. The man told him clear as day that he had a drivers license...

He was lying.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

The man fled to save his life

He fled to escape arrest.

DuBose has been charged a total of 75 times in Hamilton County, including 13 times for driving without a license, 4 times for driving without proper plates on his vehicle, 8 times for driving while under suspension (see here), and in January his license was finally suspended indefinitely.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/31/2015 12:30:01 PM >

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 8/1/2015 5:17:41 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		My mistake, I see he handed the bottle to the officer. And clearly he lied about having a license, however, that he'd been charged so many times only helps make my point. The police in the area had to have known him and known he was a traffic scofflaw, NOT an arch criminal.

I couldn't follow the link you supplied about his 75 charges. Were any of them criminal? Violent?

I'm guessing not.

He was a guy from a poorer neighborhood, a major traffic scofflaw who frustrated the police. But frustrating the police with your traffic offenses is not a capital crime, and it's not something that even remotely deserves death.

If he was a rich white guy, do you think the police would have treated him the same? Surely not.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 8/1/2015 6:41:45 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		Most of this is the fault of the judicial. (since they rule this country and let them get away with legally murdering people). I am all for deterring crime in the sense of prosecuting 'injury to one by another' not in the sense of 'its da lew' because we said so, however the key elements here are:

quote:

The Hamilton County prosecuting attorney, Joseph T. Deters, released a graphic and much anticipated video of the shooting of Samuel Dubose taken by the officer’s body camera that he described as crucial evidence that Mr. Dubose did not act aggressively or pose a threat to Officer Ray Tensing, and that Officer Tensing had lied about being dragged by Mr. Dubose’s car. A grand jury, Mr. Deters announced, indicted the officer on a murder charge, punishable by life in prison, and a voluntary manslaughter charge.

“It was a senseless, asinine shooting,” Mr. Deters said at a news conference, using stark terms to denounce the July 19 killing, the officer’s claims and the officer himself. “This doesn’t happen in the United States, OK?” he said. “This might happen in Afghanistan. People don’t get shot for a traffic stop.”


It doesnt happen in afghanastan either.

Its high time we clean up the murdering judge dredd rambos in this country.



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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 8/1/2015 12:07:22 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I couldn't follow the link you supplied about his 75 charges. Were any of them criminal? Violent?

Sorry, for some reason it works for me. Anyway, to answer your question, there was an assault charge, but it was dropped. He was convicted on a trafficking charge (marijuana) and spent some time in a state prison for that one. But your guess was correct, nothing violent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

frustrating the police with your traffic offenses is not a capital crime, and it's not something that even remotely deserves death

So you're going for the Sherlock Holmes prize?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

If he was a rich white guy, do you think the police would have treated him the same? Surely not.

The only racial angle that I can see here is your insistence on inventing one.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/1/2015 12:46:48 PM >

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 8/1/2015 2:14:42 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

Who cares? It's like buses, there in the USA, it seems to me. If this case isn't bang to rights, there'll be another along within ten minutes. Some gormless, stupid, deranged fart of a cop will murder a black man, and the equivalent of this thread will kick off all over again. God, it's almost getting boring, now.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 8/1/2015 2:32:57 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Who cares? It's like buses, there in the USA, it seems to me. If this case isn't bang to rights, there'll be another along within ten minutes. Some gormless, stupid, deranged fart of a cop will murder a black man, and the equivalent of this thread will kick off all over again. God, it's almost getting boring, now.

Or when all the facts come out we will find it is justified or at least something far less than murder.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 8/1/2015 4:08:03 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I agree ... Quick start an interesting thread.

I saw a story from your part of the woods where a guy with a knife came after three cops.... And lived. He would have been filled with lead here.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 8/1/2015 4:38:34 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Who cares? It's like buses, there in the USA, it seems to me. If this case isn't bang to rights, there'll be another along within ten minutes. Some gormless, stupid, deranged fart of a cop will murder a black man, and the equivalent of this thread will kick off all over again. God, it's almost getting boring, now.


thats because we the 'free-range-bond-slaves' traded a monarchy for an idiocracy ruled by a plutocracy. We created a monumental system; we the gubmint for the gubmint, by the gubmint of the gubmint. So changing goes very slowly around here.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 8/1/2015 9:44:31 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

My mistake, I see he handed the bottle to the officer. And clearly he lied about having a license, however, that he'd been charged so many times only helps make my point. The police in the area had to have known him and known he was a traffic scofflaw, NOT an arch criminal.

I couldn't follow the link you supplied about his 75 charges. Were any of them criminal? Violent?

I'm guessing not.

He was a guy from a poorer neighborhood, a major traffic scofflaw who frustrated the police. But frustrating the police with your traffic offenses is not a capital crime, and it's not something that even remotely deserves death.

If he was a rich white guy, do you think the police would have treated him the same? Surely not.


Thanks Chatte, it's nice to see you posting down here in the dungeon.
If he was a rich white guy, odds are, that we would not be having this conversation.



< Message edited by Marini -- 8/1/2015 10:35:21 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 8/1/2015 9:47:03 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Who cares? It's like buses, there in the USA, it seems to me. If this case isn't bang to rights, there'll be another along within ten minutes. Some gormless, stupid, deranged fart of a cop will murder a black man, and the equivalent of this thread will kick off all over again. God, it's almost getting boring, now.


Oh, so sorry to bore you Peon.
No one is forcing you to read these threads are they?
Most of the topics here are redundant aren't they?

< Message edited by Marini -- 8/1/2015 10:25:08 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 8/1/2015 9:57:16 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

If he was a rich white guy, odds are, that we would not be having this conversation.

Well, if he was a sweet little old black lady we probably wouldn't either.

K.


(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 8/1/2015 10:11:07 PM   
Marini


Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

If he was a rich white guy, odds are, that we would not be having this conversation.

Well, if he was a sweet little old black lady we probably wouldn't either.

K.




You may have me on that one.
no fair


_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: University of Cincinnati Police Officer Indicted - 8/1/2015 10:18:39 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

My mistake, I see he handed the bottle to the officer. And clearly he lied about having a license, however, that he'd been charged so many times only helps make my point. The police in the area had to have known him and known he was a traffic scofflaw, NOT an arch criminal.

I couldn't follow the link you supplied about his 75 charges. Were any of them criminal? Violent?

I'm guessing not.

He was a guy from a poorer neighborhood, a major traffic scofflaw who frustrated the police. But frustrating the police with your traffic offenses is not a capital crime, and it's not something that even remotely deserves death.

If he was a rich white guy, do you think the police would have treated him the same? Surely not.


Thanks Chatte, it's nice to see you post
If he was a rich white guy, odds are, that we would not be having this conversation.



And he wasn't shot over the traffic tickets.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Marini)
Profile   Post #: 60
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