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RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 4:04:02 PM   
Lucylastic


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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 5:47:09 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Strange how Nixon signed both the EPA anD OSHA bills in 1970. hmmmmmmmmm Yup, I guess those of our friends on the left have proven that those of us on the right are all wrong. again. LOL And they were done with a democratic congress so there was no partisan vetoing

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/11/2015 5:57:06 PM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
http://news.yahoo.com/video/state-emergency-colorado-over-toxic-012238515.html

Since the EPA created this emergency themselves

1. Should those involved be fined for the cleanup in the same manner as those in the civilian sector?


Let's see if I understand this 'failure to engage one's brain": The US Government should fine the US Government. Or even 'better', the US Government should find the EPA, so that the EPA has....LESS...resources to keep others in-line when this and other clean up efforts break down.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
2. Should those involved be considered for criminal prosecution under the be a manager go to jail laws of OSHA?


Why not ask the legal folks in government. Since they are the ones that have to prosecute the persons. As of right now, they are not going to do anything. The group doing the clean up notified all the proper agencies that might be able to do something about the situation in good faith.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
3. Should the supervisors and above be investigated for criminal negligence in the training and supervision of subordinates?


Yeah, because we, the United States, 'always' do that towards businesses, right? How many of those big shots in BP are in jail due to an oil rig exploding, sinking under the ocean, and causing weeks of oil slicks that ranged from Texas to Florida?

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
4. Is the Administration trying to poison the people of the west who are generally more conservative, thus eliminating some problems.


This sounds like an accusation. How about you put some.....EVIDENCE.....that shows....WITHOUT A SHADOW OF DOUBT......that the current administration created this problem to....ELIMINATED POLITICAL PEOPLE OPPOSED TO THEM. All those people in the current administration are afforded the same rights and protections as you are! That means you have the burden of evidence to produce of wrong doing.





Sure Joe I'll get proof after you prove that asking a question (you don't have to like the question or even respond to it if you don't want to) requires proof first. BTW the questions were designed to solicit input. Thanks you for yours. Now Prove please yours (not really because I don't see a need to prove your own question when soliciting input). Me, I just asked questions.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/12/2015 5:29:42 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		http://www.kpho.com/story/29765736/experts-see-long-term-risks-from-colorado-mine-spill

EPA says the water is safe enough to allow cities to start using it again for their needs. I am not sure I agree and I am sure that the cost of cleanup is going to be tremendous. Waiting for congressional investigation :D and the law suits.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/12/2015 5:52:12 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		I guess you would like them to cleanup before you want congress to shut them down.


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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/12/2015 7:09:20 PM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		1 you are correct that I want them to clean up the mess.
2. Don't want the government to close them down, but at some point someone needs to put the brakes on some of there stuff. An example. A single kangaroo rat was found on a farmers land in bakersfield, ca. the epa shut down his entire operation. The kangaroo rat is endangered (no argument from me one way or the other because I don't really know). However, to shut down a farm because one rat was found on the edge of his property and the rat is known to move around is a bit much. Now the farmer lost his opration and must continue paying the mortgage and taxes on his property that was previously free (as far as anyone can tell) of the single (emphasis) rat. There needs to be some sort of compromise someplace.
3. I want those responsible for the mess to be held accountable and liable for the cleanup. I really don't care if it occurred in 10000000000000 BC or yesterday

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/13/2015 1:10:34 PM   
cloudboy


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(4) -- Really? What planet are you living on?

From what I read, the EPA might have done a better job if mining engineers supervised the work. It's stunning that all that run off came from the operation of one back hoe.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/13/2015 1:24:10 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


(4) -- Really? What planet are you living on?

From what I read, the EPA might have done a better job if mining engineers supervised the work. It's stunning that all that run off came from the operation of one back hoe.

Why would they need mining engineers? After all, they're a government agency...they're the...Ta-Da!...EPA.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/13/2015 1:26:02 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


(4) -- Really? What planet are you living on?

From what I read, the EPA might have done a better job if mining engineers supervised the work. It's stunning that all that run off came from the operation of one back hoe.

Stupid has no limits.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/13/2015 1:27:31 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


(4) -- Really? What planet are you living on?

From what I read, the EPA might have done a better job if mining engineers supervised the work. It's stunning that all that run off came from the operation of one back hoe.

Why would they need mining engineers? After all, they're a government agency...they're the...Ta-Da!...EPA.


Staffed with college educated communist punks who have no real world experience?

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/13/2015 2:20:37 PM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


(4) -- Really? What planet are you living on?

From what I read, the EPA might have done a better job if mining engineers supervised the work. It's stunning that all that run off came from the operation of one back hoe.

I know that when OSHA consulting and sometimes enforcement came to a wastewater treatment plant and ran into a question that they didn't have a specific concrete answer to, they would go to the people on the California Water Environmental Association (WWTP association subordinate to the Water Environmental Federation at national level) safety committee members for assistance in both industry and specific guidance standards that should be applied. Maybe the EPA could learn to do things like that someday. there are outside professionals that can assist and are willing to.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/13/2015 4:06:34 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		• The General Mining Law of 1872 is among the last surviving statutes of the boisterous era of westward expansion. Signed by Ulysses S. Grant, it establishes the basic rules for mining hard-rock minerals like gold, copper and uranium on public lands.

• Useful in its day, the law is a destructive relic now. It allows mining companies to buy federal land for a few dollars an acre, demands no royalties and requires minimal environmental protections while the mine is operating and no cleanup afterward.

• Its principal legacy, if it can be called that, is a battered landscape of abandoned mines and poisoned streams.

• The durability of this law, which has resisted all efforts at reform, is worth noting in the wake of a terrible mining-related disaster.

• there are 500,000 of these abandoned and unreclaimed mines scattered about the country. According to the E.P.A., the drainage from these mines has contaminated roughly 40 percent of the headwater areas of Western watersheds.

^^^^^^^^ One might call this the legacy of unregulated capitalism out WEST and our own version of Chinese Style economics.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/13/opinion/what-the-gold-mine-disaster-tells-us.html?ref=topics



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/13/2015 4:07:44 PM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/13/2015 5:01:17 PM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/11/epa-wont-face-fines-polluting-rivers-orange-muck/#.VcozLh1XhPA.twitter

No fines to anyone

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/13/erin-brockovich-epa-must-fire-people-colorado-spil/

Erin Brockovich, the anti-pollution crusader made famous in the eponymous movie starring Julia Roberts, says the EPA’s apology for the Gold King Mine spill “just ain’t gonna cut it” and urged the agency to “fire people” if necessary.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/13/2015 8:15:25 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Now you subscribe to the Washington Times? You need to get off the conservative feeder sites and read better primary sources on regular, steady basis. Honestly, if you sources are the looney bin, its going to affect your thinking and posting.

Go local if you want to use the internet:

• The mustard-colored water flowing down the Animas River in southwestern Colorado is a painful reminder of the lengthy gestation time of environmental disasters.

• The ugly surge was unleashed last week by an EPA contractor, which unwittingly breached a dike that allowed contaminated water from the Gold King Mine to flood into Cement Creek, a tributary of the Animas River. Images from the polluted river as it flowed downstream through the town of Durango were appalling, and the story became a media sensation.

• But the disaster actually had its start almost 130 years ago.

Best: Kicking the environmental can down the river

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/13/2015 8:23:59 PM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/14/2015 5:20:24 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://www.kpho.com/story/29765736/experts-see-long-term-risks-from-colorado-mine-spill

EPA says the water is safe enough to allow cities to start using it again for their needs. I am not sure I agree and I am sure that the cost of cleanup is going to be tremendous. Waiting for congressional investigation :D and the law suits.



the EPA said it was safe for the 911 clean up crews too.

anytime there is power to be had or money to be made by someone and there is plenty of money to be made in an event like this the word 'accident' becomes highly suspect.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/14/2015 5:21:14 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/14/2015 5:24:18 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Now you subscribe to the Washington Times? You need to get off the conservative feeder sites and read better primary sources on regular, steady basis. Honestly, if you sources are the looney bin, its going to affect your thinking and posting.

Go local if you want to use the internet:

• The mustard-colored water flowing down the Animas River in southwestern Colorado is a painful reminder of the lengthy gestation time of environmental disasters.

• The ugly surge was unleashed last week by an EPA contractor, which unwittingly breached a dike that allowed contaminated water from the Gold King Mine to flood into Cement Creek, a tributary of the Animas River. Images from the polluted river as it flowed downstream through the town of Durango were appalling, and the story became a media sensation.

• But the disaster actually had its start almost 130 years ago.

Best: Kicking the environmental can down the river


A person needs a variety of sources to stay informed

People you who only read far left tabloids like the NYT and listen to PBS propaganda (which leave out all the news they dont want you to know) tend to have warped, extremist far left world views

Like yours



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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/14/2015 7:46:31 PM   
cloudboy


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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pulitzer_Prizes_awarded_to_The_New_York_Times

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/14/2015 8:14:38 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pulitzer_Prizes_awarded_to_The_New_York_Times



Reminds me of the guy who got a peace prize for picking his nose. Well that,, and being a huge leftist

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/15/2015 7:52:56 AM   
MercTech


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Joined: 7/4/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Why anyone believes that businesses are trustworthy in their hazardous waste disposal, is way beyond me.



Businesses conform to legislation with government oversight. Some try to cut corners but get caught. Some are fined into bankruptcy when caught violating the rules.

The biggest offenders in improper waste disposal are government facilities. They can't seem to play by the rules that the civilian sector does. DOE didn't even have an official radiation protection program until 1995 and they were the people building nuclear weapons.

Everywhere, and I mean EACH AND EVERY SITE, where the federal government has been involved in handling hazardous material (1989 and prior most certainly) has ended up on the RCRA and CIRCLA lists. Everywhere the federal government as worked with radioactive material is on the superfund cleanup list.

The federal bureaucracy has proven over and over and over to be incompetent at directly managing any project requiring technical expertise or a project that could present a hazard to the public. Even contracting out to low bid contractors is better than allowing Washington Wankers to try and manage a project.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: EPA CREATED EMERGENCY - 8/18/2015 9:33:30 AM   
Thegunnysez


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/17/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://news.yahoo.com/video/state-emergency-colorado-over-toxic-012238515.html

Since the EPA created this emergency themselves


That is factually incorrect. The pollution was created by the mining company and the EPA was charged with cleaning it up.




quote:

1. Should those involved be fined for the cleanup in the same manner as those in the civilian sector?


No...since the EPA did not create the pollution.


quote:

2. Should those involved be considered for criminal prosecution under the be a manager go to jail laws of OSHA?


How would that law apply to this case?


quote:

3. Should the supervisors and above be investigated for criminal negligence in the training and supervision of subordinates?


Absolutely

quote:


4. Is the Administration trying to poison the people of the west who are generally more conservative, thus eliminating some problems.


California,Oregon,Washington and New Mexico are out west and hardly conservative.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 60
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