joether
Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
|
I know, you guys had great difficulty with the Afford Card Act's 2409 pages. And the 159 page treaty with Iran. This 'plan' is six pages long. Hopefully you guys can handle this 'tough' reading assignment for discussion....
Trump gives three core principles:
quote:
1. A nation without borders is not a nation. There must be a wall across the southern border.
Actually the United States of America has borders; therefore its a nation. Having a wall on just one area of the nation, does not then mean the whole has borders.
Why not a wall separating Canada from us? I think all the northern states should demand 'equal treatment' under the law. Of course that means the East Coast and West Coasts will demand walls along their boards to external nations that could access us via the oceans. Which the 'Panhandle States' will want a wall. Followed by Hawaii and Alaska (mostly to keep Sarah Palin in Alaska).
Why should forty six states pay for infrastructure and jobs they do not get to benefit from? Since I do not see many illegal immigrants making their way to places like Honolulu, Fairbanks, and Detroit. The creation of the wall would take many hundreds if not thousands of man hours to create. Then hire law enforcement to maintain stewardship of it (kind of like 'The Wall' from the HBO show 'A Game of Thrones'. Will those law enforcement renounce all titles, family names and having sex with the opposite gender?
That's alot of money flowing to those four states. What real benefits will the other forty six states get that they do not get already?
He doesn't seem to explain that.....
quote:
2. A nation without laws is not a nation. Laws passed in accordance with our Constitutional system of government must be enforced.
We have laws last I checked. Lots of them. For Mr. Trump to state we are without laws, I would challenge him to prove that that US Constitution is not currently in operation. An I agree that laws should be enforced. But not just the laws we politically agree with, but the ones (and the parts of those laws) we disagree as well!
Before you conservatives get 'gun ho' over this concept, I would ask you to consider it carefully. Since it operates both ways!
3. A nation that does not serve its own citizens is not a nation. Any immigration plan must improve jobs, wages and security for all Americans
Our nation serves in citizens. Our nation has the largest budget on the planet. We pay for everything from toothpicks to nuclear carrier fleets. To say otherwise is to completely ignore reality and evidence easily found over decades of congressional filings.
Why must an immigration plan improve jobs? Can we not improve jobs on its own? Can we not improve wages on its own? I say raise the minimum wage up to $15/hour. Any companies that lower hours or layoff workers must prove in a court their 'book's could not handle the strain. That workers are protected from being forced to work 110% by the employer unless by the consent of the employee whom is free from retaliation of the employer to say 'no'.
I find it amusing that a guy that talks about 'job security' isn't rated very well by his own employees. Maybe we should talk to those employees directly and get their 'take' on fears of being laid off or marginalized by a dictator.....
quote:
Indeed, the annual cost of free tax credits alone paid to illegal immigrants quadrupled to $4.2 billion in 2011.
What is the annual profit for having those illegal immigrants in the United States? Since if the profit was below the expenses, no business would 'handle' the practice. Since the practice takes place even with the threat of fines and jail time by the government; therefore the profit outweighs the penalties. Anyone want to take a bet against me that the gross and net profit of businesses using illegal immigrant workers in 2011 was not higher than $4.2 billion?
Lets face it, and its been said on every thread about immigration reform in America: illegal immigrants perform tasks no American wishes to undertake. That all the calls that illegal immigrants are taking jobs away from Americans; yet I never see US Citizens picking berries for eight hours under a hot sun for pennies on the dollar per hour.
quote:
The effects on jobseekers have also been disastrous, and black Americans have been particularly harmed.
Again, show me the flood of resumes to pick berries under a hot Arizona sun for eight hours straight, five days a week for half the federal minimum wage (and that's being generous)?
Americans regardless of skin color, gender, age, creed, and even sexual orientation have trouble obtaining good jobs. The amount of reasons why they do not obtain those jobs is just a few less than the GOP/TP's reasons why they have not dealt with immigrant when they controlled the White House and Congress between 2000-2006. According to conservatives, we should allow the 'market' to determine conditions. Which would place it at odds with Trump's plan and philosophy in this document!
quote:
Meanwhile, Mexico continues to make billions on not only our bad trade deals but also relies heavily on the billions of dollars in remittances sent from illegal immigrants in the United States back to Mexico ($22 billion in 2013 alone).
If Mr. Trump has trouble with what people do with their money, maybe we should create a public 'court' that decides what Mr. Trump can do with every penny of his wealth.....
How munch money was set from Mexico to the United States through US Companies? Yeah, go right ahead and bullshit to me that the number was less than $22 billion in 2013.....
If we start placing constraints on how people send money to loved ones in other nations whom are our allies; we will encounter a FUCKLOAD of diplomatic problems down the road. That is something Mr. Trump neglects to mentions, since Mr. Trump's diplomacy skills dealing as a nation to another nation are as 'non existent' as the other GOP/TP folks running for the White House....
quote:
In short, the Mexican government has taken the United States to the cleaners. They are responsible for this problem, and they must help pay to clean it up.
Mexico has an illegal immigration problem. Its people entering their nation on their way to the United States of America. Should Mexico be responsible for anyone leaving their nation to ours?
[Devil's Advocate...]
Since that means the United States of America would be responsible for what happens to anyone that leaves our nation to other nations. Again, that's a diplomatically loaded problem Mr. Trump is suggesting we institute.
quote:
The cost of building a permanent border wall pales mightily in comparison to what American taxpayers spend every single year on dealing with the fallout of illegal immigration on their communities, schools and unemployment offices.
If your going to go to the trouble of stating this, shouldn't you also listed in real numbers what that wall's cost will take to build? Isn't there a bogus American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) study to give us figures that are not based on reality? Since all the other GOP/TP seem to use material originally created by ALEC as 'their own work', why not Mr. Trump?
On the web I can find hundreds of websites stating the cost could be $400,000 to $15,000,000 per mile. That Mr. Trump has access to people that can design structures and figure out their costs, but can't give this information smells of bullshit! I'm not looking for an exact figure of materials, people, hours, and dollars down to 'the exact penny'. But a set of figures that show the layout, costs, and maintenance requirements for each sub section in those four states. I forget that he is not trying to get elected by liberals whom would demand such information. But from conservatives whom are usually light on facts and evidence and heavy on ideology.
quote:
Triple the number of ICE officers
Yeah, I agree. So long as we are hiring not just conservative politically minded individuals.....
And increase port inspectors so we are looking at 80% of cargo coming into the nation not just 5%. Again, why should the coast line states shell money to just four states when they have to pay for inspection from cargo ships coming into the USA from abroad?
quote:
...tax credit payments to illegal immigrants.
Really? Illegal immigrants get tax credits? Or is it the businesses, whom hired the illegal immigrants in the first place (whom give to the GOP/TP coffers) getting these credits? Curious how Mr. Trump is.....REALLY....light on the 'who is more guilty' part.
quote:
Nationwide e-verify. This simple measure will protect jobs for unemployed Americans
Try to follow the logic here: If your unemployed YOU DONT HAVE A JOB!. That's why they are called unemployed.....
You know what would protect unemployed Americans? Healthcare coverage!
quote:
Mandatory return of all criminal aliens.
(and from further up in that document...)
Most recently, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, with a long arrest record, is charged with breaking into a 64 year-old women’s home, crushing her skull and eye sockets with a hammer, raping her, and murdering her. The Police Chief in Santa Maria says the “blood trail” leads straight to Washington.
On one hand Mr. Trump wants to bash the Obama Administration for releasing someone that should be locked up. On the other hand he states we should deport all criminal aliens. Sorry Mr. Trump but you don't get it both ways here. Likewise, if they crossed the border illegally the first time to do the evil crime; what stops them from doing it....again?
Either we jail the REAL criminals whom break felonies beyond just crossing the board and eat the cost. Or we deport them as a diplomatic viewpoint. Otherwise, the lawyers for these guys could destroy the whom underpinning of the immigration law on technicalities. and/or problems with the 8th amendment.
quote:
Defund sanctuary cities. Cut-off federal grants to any city which refuses to cooperate with federal law enforcement.
This is put in for the conservatives to stupid and ignorant to 'follow along with reaility'. If someone is helping someone avoid the law and is caught....THEY GO TO COURT THEMSELVES! There is no such thing as a real 'sanctuary city', since if someone is in violation of federal law, they are arrested by federal agents whom take them to a federal holding cell to awaiting a judge in a federal court room.
I agree that liberals should cooperate with federal law enforcement. But that also means everyone else in the nation has to do the same. And there are plenty more instances of conservatives doing things that are 'questionable' at best and 'down right illegal' at worst. Should be careful about supporting such a policy at the federal level.....fair warning!
quote:
Enhanced penalties for overstaying a visa. Millions of people come to the United States on temporary visas but refuse to leave, without consequence.
If there was no threat of consequence, why do most of them stay in hiding from law enforcement?
I don't see many parades of illegal immigrants walking down Main Street, USA like I do 4th of July parades.....
I know, 'conservatives' and 'logic' does not often work together.....
Likewise there is not such thing as 'enhanced penalties' for overstaying a visa. One is penalized for overstaying a visa. We can create a law that increases the penalty for a over-extended visa. The only way to have an enhanced penalty is if there was a penalty for having a legally obtained visa in the first place (which doesn't make rational or logical sense).
An why do those people stick around after the visa is expired? There are plenty more reasons that have nothing to do with a criminal or sinister nature. Why not create a renewal program that increases with costs based on how many previous times such a renewal was sought? Those that do not pay, we kick out and take all their belongings (which we do already).
I'm going to stop here for now. Effectively at the end of page 3 of 6 in the document. Anyone doubt I couldn't keep going? Let's just 'discuss' on the first three pages. later, I'll give the 'analysis' of the remaining pages (its equally juicy).
|
Trump's Immigration Plan - .gif){kind=avatar}
Profile
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread