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Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 9:43:10 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Hillsboro is a sleepy little country town south of St Louis. It is a Bible Belt area and on the conservative side. It is now experiencing first hand the laws governing transgender children ... and they are rebelling.

I consider myself enlightened and very much support gay rights but I also understand the student and parent concerns in this case.

The male child in question considers himself a female…so for the rest of this post I am referring to him as a her. She is demanding the right to use the women’s facilities which include restrooms and locker rooms.

Up until recently she was not allowed to use them and was required to use a uni-sex restroom. It seems there is a Federal law, which I cannot site but was included in the story, that a school is required to treat a student as the gender they claim… which meant access to the women’s facilities.

When she was allowed to do this the overwhelming majority of students walked out in protest against her. Parents were also uniformly against the decision of the school to allow her access to women’s facilities.

Many parents believe that allowing a physical boy into a girls restroom is just not right…and I agree. Not that anything sexual would occur but just the embarrassment of some girls at a man in their restroom is not fair to them. I also understand the trans girl’s embarrassment of being with boys…but she does not have to be… there is a restroom she can use.

Before we can call the parents at issue bigots some it seems would be fine with her using the girls locker room and restroom if she has the sex reassignment surgery. But I don’t believe that is an option because of her age.

What are your feelings on this quandary … should the girls be forced to have a physical man with them in their locker rooms and bathrooms…or… should the school do their best to accommodate the transgender as they are by allowing her to not participate in gym with boys and using a uni-sex restroom?

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing
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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 9:49:17 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		yes you have been quite vocal about your support of gay rights over and above and despite trampling and violating others rights.

the solution is obvious.

All public places will need to build a third [insert name here] to support them.

Men
Women
Other

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 9:54:06 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		As usual a trollish answer... how about a second chance to sound intelligent... read the link and give an honest opinion... I will respect it.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 10:06:26 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		No, honesty has nothing to do with agreeing with you, so very sorry.

I also noted that the school kids protesting will be penalized for expressing their religious beliefs. The parents should pull them all out.

the school provided a means by which the kid with a cock who likes to dress as a woman can take care of his business. Unless and until this boy is declared a female in court its a boy in a dress with a cock, not a female with a vagina.

That is the difference that the kids readily recognized.





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 10:12:04 AM   
JVoV


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Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: online 		Is bathroom apartheid really necessary anymore? Unisex for everybody! Along with privacy in toilet & shower stalls.

Are there multiple unisex restrooms across the campus, convenient for the child? Or is there one, like near the guidance counselors' office, while her classes are a city block away?

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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 10:12:32 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Do you or anyone know if transgender need a court order to be legally one gender or another? This is something that you would think the school would have looked into before they made a decision.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 10:16:28 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		There would be quite an expense to make individual showers with private access to and from along with private dressing areas don't you think? To me this could not be justified as an expense...and I'd bet voter increase would not pass.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to JVoV)
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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 10:26:43 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Do you or anyone know if transgender need a court order to be legally one gender or another? This is something that you would think the school would have looked into before they made a decision.

Butch



unless you intend to issue your own birth certificate.

No I dont think anything of the sort, you think that.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 10:36:31 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Is bathroom apartheid really necessary anymore? Unisex for everybody! Along with privacy in toilet & shower stalls.

Are there multiple unisex restrooms across the campus, convenient for the child? Or is there one, like near the guidance counselors' office, while her classes are a city block away?



why should people with opposite plumbing be mandated to use the same facilities?





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 10:55:52 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Up until recently she was not allowed to use them and was required to use a uni-sex restroom. It seems there is a Federal law, which I cannot site but was included in the story, that a school is required to treat a student as the gender they claim… which meant access to the women’s facilities.



I think this is the crux of the whole issue. I read the article in the link, but I couldn't see anything about this Federal law. But if this is due to Federal mandate, then the school district may not have any choice in the matter.

It must be pretty tough on the kid. The article said that she fears bullying and violence. It's a tough situation.

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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 10:58:43 AM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Is bathroom apartheid really necessary anymore? Unisex for everybody! Along with privacy in toilet & shower stalls.


Indeed. Who cares about the plumbing. This is just a tedious old non-problem that gets in the way. The world has real, 21st century problems to deal with now.

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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 11:03:24 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Well it is a murky area... it seems there have been court cases where transgender children in schools have sued for the use of the restrooms of their gender choice and won under anti-discrimination laws. But there have also been attempts in some states to limit restrooms to the physical gender.

So this is not a cut and dry case either way and if they want to take it that far it will need to go to a state court first.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 11:04:23 AM   
JVoV


Posts: 3661
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: online 		Title IX. That whole 'seperate but equal' thing.

The Supreme Court has already decided that financial restrictions is no excuse for noncompliance. And the Dept of Education has updated the wording as of 2014 to include transgender students, which is why we're discussing this in the first place.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_IX

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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 11:07:45 AM   
JVoV


Posts: 3661
Joined: 3/9/2015
Status: online 		Oh neat. Apparently the Florida law wasn't passed.

http://www.advocate.com/politics/2015/04/28/breaking-floridas-trans-bathroom-bill-dies

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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 11:08:15 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		This:


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Is bathroom apartheid really necessary anymore? Unisex for everybody! Along with privacy in toilet & shower stalls.



Ignorant parents!!

What are they so afraid of? Their innocent little girls might be exposed to a male appendage? They're in high school, and not so naive, even in Bible belt MO.

What do the parents think their precious offspring are being exposed to on the net?

For shame !! If the parents had a clue they would understand the last thing this girl wants is to expose her masculinity in public.


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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 11:09:37 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		It is covered under and by the US department of education office of civil rights... HERE is a better link

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 11:11:15 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		But the vast majority of the children themselves do not want her in their restrooms... Does their voice count?

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 11:13:35 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		According to the Feds, their voices doesn't count, no. They are attempting to pull the Bible belt into the 21st century.

Please don't make it harder.


ETA:

This is occurring in a high school where bullies and cliques rule supreme, and the worst thing that can happen to many of the kids is that they be seen as different.

Why? B/c their parents failed to help they understand they should embrace the differences among us, not harass or bully it.


< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 9/1/2015 11:15:40 AM >

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RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 11:34:08 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I understand your way of thinking and I believe we, as a country, are becoming more understanding and accepting of these issues. This does not mean there should not be consideration of and accommodation to opposing views with merit... especially when new challenges arise. Our laws on these issues are changing it seems with every administration. I believe there is merit here and as this problem will most certainly continue to come up there should be some clarification on the laws. Otherwise there could be a process for instance where a child is psychologically determined and certified as being of the opposite sex rather than just a child or parent determining this and demanding access to opposite sex facilities.

In a case posted by the OCR the child was diagnosed with Gender dysphoria... perhaps this should be a requirement.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/1/2015 12:17:25 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Transgender rights in rural Missouri - 9/1/2015 11:56:21 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Title IX. That whole 'seperate but equal' thing.

The Supreme Court has already decided that financial restrictions is no excuse for noncompliance. And the Dept of Education has updated the wording as of 2014 to include transgender students, which is why we're discussing this in the first place.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_IX



Title IX is a portion of the United States Education Amendments of 1972, Public Law No. 92‑318, 86 Stat. 235 (June 23, 1972), codified at 20 U.S.C. §§ 1681–1688, co-authored and introduced by Senator Birch Bayh; it was renamed the Patsy Mink Equal Opportunity in Education Act in 2002, after its House co-author and sponsor. It states (in part) that:

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving federal financial assistance.



I dont see where you believe or concluded that equal opportunity education applies to equal shaking ones wang dang doodle in the ladies room.



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 20
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