quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
That part of her marriage was dead, but they had other reasons to stay together and she didn't want him to be in the position of either forgoing sex entirely or resorting to cheating.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
he doesn't think that the sorry state of their sex life has anything to do him

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

...she is just no longer interested in sex.

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
I am struck by the thought that not wanting sex anymore is not necessary a simple matter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
married or not, "romantic" to me is seeing two old farts (in their 70's, 80's, 90's) holding hands as they walk down the street and still looking at each other with love in their eyes.. For some reason that used to exist, where couples thought of the other first, not themselves first, but society has changed, people have become narcissistic and self-absorbed carrying around their selfie stick and cell and tweeting about their superficial experiences.. when people are like that, of course life-long monogamy isnt realistic.. heck, 1 week of monogamy could be asking too much!

There's a lot of assumptions in this paragraph.

1. That older couple may be just dating. Or hooking up. The largest growing population of STIs is in the senior crowd, as more people are outliving their spouse and still enjoying dating and romping in the sack.

2. It used to be that getting a divorce was MUCH MUCH harder. so, people stayed married. Divorce used to require that you dragged your spouse through the mud and prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they were a despicable human being who deserved public shame and dishonor. Today, people who are unhappy because of their marriages divorce, so are no longer married. 60 years ago, people who were miserable in their marriage stayed married.

3. You are assuming love. That was not always (or even more often) the case. It was practicality, legality, and often, the inability to function without each other, eventually. Especially for the woman, who would get no alimony, no child support, had to leave without job prospects or an education, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
married or not, "romantic" to me is seeing two old farts (in their 70's, 80's, 90's) holding hands as they walk down the street and still looking at each other with love in their eyes..

If only most relationships would work out this way, the world would be a better place for all of us.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
For some reason that used to exist, where couples thought of the other first, not themselves first, but society has changed, people have become narcissistic and self-absorbed carrying around their selfie stick and cell and tweeting about their superficial experiences.. when people are like that, of course life-long monogamy isnt realistic.. heck, 1 week of monogamy could be asking too much!

I think it exists.
But I also think that men need "more" sex than one woman gives them (define "more" any way that makes sense).
It's just a biological fact, which I only know from observation.

We've been down this road though, so, I will state that many people will say that I'm wrong (mostly women but some men), so, I may be wrong - but - it's my very humble opinion that men will ALWAYS cheat (in general) simply because the woman that SHOULD satisfy him sexually, does not satisfy him sexually (for whatever reason, I'm not making a judgment call).

If this wasn't true, then the numbers would be different.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
Only tangentially related, I had a long discussion with a half dozen very intelligent people over lunch yesterday, where I was appalled at the bigotry of the gay rights activists who feel that a marriage has nothing to do with religion; a marriage has nothing to do with morals; a marriage has nothing to do with ensuring long-term financial support; a marriage has nothing to do with, heaven forbid, love. And, certainly, a marriage has nothing to do with families.

No. To their bigoted gay-rights view, a marriage is to obtain the same RIGHTs as married heterosexual people enjoy.
What shocked me wasn't that these gay-rights activists discriminated against all other rationales for marriage; what shocked me was how closed-minded their view was.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

I can only guess at the figures, but, if you took a million marriages, and if this was the sorry state of affairs in a statistically meaningfully number of them, then, it would be arguably true - that the sorry state of affairs of "that" marriage probably had absolutely nothing to do with "him" (or with "her").

However, if his marriage was one out of a million, then, indeed, it would then be a tenable argument that there was something either about "him" or about "her" that brought them to this state.

The fact that there are over 30 million men on AM alone, implies the former, and not the latter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
There could of course be all sorts of reasons for that, but even taken at face value, it only relates to that couple and says nothing general about women's attitude towards sex or sex drive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
I.certainly have no reason to doubt the situation you have recounted but I am struck by the thought that not wanting sex anymore is not necessary a simple matter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
There could of course be all sorts of reasons for that, but even taken at face value, it only relates to that couple and says nothing general about women's attitude towards sex or sex drive.

Agreed, but there has been a bit of discussion in this thread about the assumption that is often made about women, regarding sex drive. That if a women does not want a man, then it must be because she isn't interested in sex. That it could not possibly have anything to do with the woman not being attracted to that particular man. I thought it interesting that that is exactly the assumption that is being made by the husband in this case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
I.certainly have no reason to doubt the situation you have recounted but I am struck by the thought that not wanting sex anymore is not necessary a simple matter.

I'm not sure what you are responding to here. I was pointing out that my friend's husband believes that her not wanting sex is the issue, but that it is not the case. In reality, she is seeking it out, just not from him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
That part of her marriage was dead, but they had other reasons to stay together and she didn't want him to be in the position of either forgoing sex entirely or resorting to cheating.

Only tangentially related, I had a long discussion with a half dozen very intelligent people over lunch yesterday, where I was appalled at the bigotry of the gay rights activists who feel that a marriage has nothing to do with religion; a marriage has nothing to do with morals; a marriage has nothing to do with ensuring long-term financial support; a marriage has nothing to do with, heaven forbid, love. And, certainly, a marriage has nothing to do with families.

No. To their bigoted gay-rights view, a marriage is to obtain the same RIGHTs as married heterosexual people enjoy.
What shocked me wasn't that these gay-rights activists discriminated against all other rationales for marriage; what shocked me was how closed-minded their view was.

My concept of marriage is far more open minded and non-discriminatory, as it excludes nobody and doesn't need to destroy anyone's current meaning, in order to fulfill the needs of everyone.

But, the gay-rights activists would have none of these open-minded ideals; they would only accept a supremely narrow bigoted definition of marriage that discriminates against all others, yet, conveniently, includes theirs.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul
he doesn't think that the sorry state of their sex life has anything to do him

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
married or not, "romantic" to me is seeing two old farts (in their 70's, 80's, 90's) holding hands as they walk down the street and still looking at each other with love in their eyes.. For some reason that used to exist, where couples thought of the other first, not themselves first, but society has changed, people have become narcissistic and self-absorbed carrying around their selfie stick and cell and tweeting about their superficial experiences.. when people are like that, of course life-long monogamy isnt realistic.. heck, 1 week of monogamy could be asking too much!

There's a lot of assumptions in this paragraph.

1. That older couple may be just dating. Or hooking up. The largest growing population of STIs is in the senior crowd, as more people are outliving their spouse and still enjoying dating and romping in the sack.

2. It used to be that getting a divorce was MUCH MUCH harder. so, people stayed married. Divorce used to require that you dragged your spouse through the mud and prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they were a despicable human being who deserved public shame and dishonor. Today, people who are unhappy because of their marriages divorce, so are no longer married. 60 years ago, people who were miserable in their marriage stayed married.

3. You are assuming love. That was not always (or even more often) the case. It was practicality, legality, and often, the inability to function without each other, eventually. Especially for the woman, who would get no alimony, no child support, had to leave without job prospects or an education, etc.

of course I am making some assumptions, in some/many cases my assumptions are correct, in other cases maybe not but then if i see such a couple walking in the park i am not gonna go up to them and ask them if they are really in love/been married for decades or if they are just hooking up!!!!

Not that they are "old farts" but I think Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgwick have that kinda romantic long term relationship.. yes, i am making certain assumptions there too, such as that they really are in love and tweeting about being happily married for 27 years isnt just a PR campaign..

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I think Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgwick have that kinda romantic long term relationship.. yes, i am making certain assumptions there too, such as that they really are in love and tweeting about being happily married for 27 years isnt just a PR campaign..

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
he stopped wanting sex.. in hindsight I always was the initiator and wanted more sex than him..

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
Marriage for gay people is about getting the same rights.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
Marriage for gay people is about getting the same rights.

I know. I understand the entire gay-rights argument.
That's why I know it's bigoted.
They discriminate, for example, against people who feel that marriage is NOT ONLY about rights.
They brush off anyone who feels, as I do, that marriage is critical for having children (and protecting them).
They conveniently forget that other people have DIFFERENT feelings about marriage.

In short, gay-rights activists are nothing but bigots who don't even realize how narrow-minded they are.

Just to give you an idea of how "P" type "I" am, I feel that marriage consists of EVERYTHING that everyone feels it is.
That includes religion.
That includes family.
That includes divorce-law protection.
That includes the right to pull the plug.
That includes hospital-visitation rights.
That includes rights of survivorship.
That includes estate rights.
That includes health-insurance coverage.
That includes citizenship rights.
That includes FAMILY RESPONSIBILITIES (this is the big kahuna!)
etc.

In short, marriage isn't JUST about the selfish attitude that it's "just" about rights; and marriage isn't just about the bigoted view that it's just about sexual orientation. Gay rights activists are the biggest bunch of bigots I've ever met because they don't see themselves for who they really are.

Personally, they hate "MY" idea of marriage, which is that it is everything that it is to everyone (why else would a Kentucky clerk be in jail right now, if it wasn't for what it meant "TO HER!").

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I think Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgwick have that kinda romantic long term relationship.. yes, i am making certain assumptions there too, such as that they really are in love and tweeting about being happily married for 27 years isnt just a PR campaign..

I'm pretty scared when any argument uses a fairy-tale life, written, produced, and directed by their respective agents and/or full-time media managers, as the canonical example...

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
he stopped wanting sex.. in hindsight I always was the initiator and wanted more sex than him..

I must admit, although it dilutes my argument somewhat, that I too know of women who tell me their husbands no longer "want sex" from them. I won't say how I met these women, but, let's just say a certain ad brought the two of us together for a quiet tête-à-tête at a local coffee shop, so, I would have to clarify that I only heard one side of the story in those few cases.

In each case, I was glad to oblige the lady, all the while being shocked (and perhaps somewhat disingenuously professing more shock than I would normally feel under the circumstances for theatrical purposes) at the dismal state of affairs that the lady outlined.

HOWEVER ... I have always said that my statements are about the BIG PICTURE.

Specifically, this thread is about male-to-female ratios on Ashley Madison, which, we can assume, means that men-cheat-on-Ashley-Madison-at-a-greater-rate-than-women-cheat-on-Ashley-Madison!

[EDIT: That statistic doesn't, all by itself, imply that married women don't cheat, because it's entirely possible that they do cheat, but that they just cheat in a less-Ashley-Madison way.]

Here are the only two facts I can state that are on topic:
Ashley Madison, as far as I can make out, is a cheater's web site.
The ratios, we all must agree, are VASTLY skewed.

But, as I've previously admitted, I can't think of a single place or thing that I do that isn't 100:1 men to women, so, it may very well be simply that women cheat in a different way, in a different place, and in different ratios than do men.

Certainly, if there aren't 100 men for every woman in the State of California, then, the women must be hanging out SOMEWHERE. Perhaps that's where they do their cheating. I don't know. (I never professed to understand women, and, for once, I doubt many of you will disagree with my point.)

But I don't think that comparison topic was the point of the OP in opening this thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
Reversely, the guys who know what they're doing in the sack never seem to have any complaints at all about female sex drives... interesting how to works...

We've been down this road before.
If you actually believe that the average female's sex drive is anywhere near an order of magnitude of the average male's sex drive, then you don't fundamentally understand men.

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
There could of course be all sorts of reasons for that, but even taken at face value, it only relates to that couple and says nothing general about women's attitude towards sex or sex drive.

Agreed, but there has been a bit of discussion in this thread about the assumption that is often made about women, regarding sex drive. That if a women does not want a man, then it must be because she isn't interested in sex. That it could not possibly have anything to do with the woman not being attracted to that particular man. I thought it interesting that that is exactly the assumption that is being made by the husband in this case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
I.certainly have no reason to doubt the situation you have recounted but I am struck by the thought that not wanting sex anymore is not necessary a simple matter.

I'm not sure what you are responding to here. I was pointing out that my friend's husband believes that her not wanting sex is the issue, but that it is not the case. In reality, she is seeking it out, just not from him.

Apologies for getting the wrong end of the stick.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

If I just wanted a one-off, I'd go to the bar.