RE: Do Americans feel extra responsibility?

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RE: Do Americans feel extra responsibility? - 9/6/2015 4:16:55 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

The link doesn't go anywhere, Sanity. It just repeats a section of this thread. So, again, can you show me where a "leftist" has supported and approved of ISIS?

FFS Peon, he cant so he wont, despite his continued claims.......... stop living in hope already.

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Post #: 81

RE: Do Americans feel extra responsibility? - 9/6/2015 4:27:53 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

Question for you peon, do Brits feel any responsibility for how they vote? Blair was hailed as a king but dragged us into war with the yanks, with his "sexed up" dossiers and fake WMD shit. If we hadn't fallen into step quite so keenly with Bush how would the coalition have been formed? Would it have been formed at all? I imagine America would have gone in anyway, but we have some responsibility for what happened in Iraq too.

And our support of American military action continues, which I believe has helped build ISIS numbers and leaves us in the terrorist firing line.

I always voted Conservative since the disasterous lleft wing Labour governments of the 70`s. I didnt at the recent election and wont do so again due to Camerons policies since 2009. (NHS and welfare reforms etc)

From what I have seen, Bush was pleased Blair acted in lockstep back in 2003, as America could then say they were acting as a coalition, a unilateral invasion of Iraq would have been against international law.

I am also unconvinced we are acting alongside the US in Syria, given the vote for action in which Cameron was defeated. Current talk over the weekend is Camerons Ministers are going to push the case for joining the US and take action inside Syria......... It is dodgy ground as no one can be sure just which side to help out. The fact Turkey are fighting the Kurds, under the guie of attacking ISIS, doesnt help. Nor does the fact ISIS got much of its financial support from our so called friends in the ME, Saudi and the Gulf States.

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Post #: 82

RE: Do Americans feel extra responsibility? - 9/8/2015 3:38:18 AM

blnymph

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Joined: 11/13/2010
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what is the alternative for the UK?

abandoning the EU I d fear would result in even more licking trans-atlantic boots ... do you really think Britain would be better off then?

this discussion is going on for decades now since Thatcher's times, and there are numerous examples how "independent" from the US British foreign and economic policies have been since then

I personally would be sad when Britain will leave the EU - and I d think another chance to make the EU better than the sum of lowest-level compromises would be lost

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Post #: 83

RE: Do Americans feel extra responsibility? - 9/8/2015 4:15:25 AM

Zonie63

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
FR
It's funny: In a land where politicians love to hug the Bible, it's interesting to see what verses don't get much airtime.
"From everyone to whom much has been given, much will be required; and from the one to whom much has been entrusted, even more will be demanded." (Luke 12:48b)
"This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy." (Ezekiel 16:49)
"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world." (James 1:27)
Not to mention the sorting of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-46) and the parable of the vineyard workers (Matthew 20:1-16).

Implying that paying more to government because of more prosperity is Biblical, would seem to also imply that government is God. I'm not sure how many politicians have the cohones to make that argument.

They used to make such arguments centuries ago when people believed their governments were chosen by God. There's even a bit of mysticism attached to terms like "Manifest Destiny" and "American Dream." I've talked to some religious types who believe that America has some sort of special role in Biblical prophecy and that our foreign policies are allegedly inspired by God.

quote:

The rich do pay more taxes than the poor, but a lower % of income. Too bad the Bible didn't mention which was to be the criterion.

Perhaps not specifically, although Matthew 19:24 says: "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

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Post #: 84

RE: Do Americans feel extra responsibility? - 9/8/2015 4:58:41 AM

Zonie63

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

Question for you peon, do Brits feel any responsibility for how they vote? Blair was hailed as a king but dragged us into war with the yanks, with his "sexed up" dossiers and fake WMD shit. If we hadn't fallen into step quite so keenly with Bush how would the coalition have been formed? Would it have been formed at all? I imagine America would have gone in anyway, but we have some responsibility for what happened in Iraq too.

And our support of American military action continues, which I believe has helped build ISIS numbers and leaves us in the terrorist firing line.

No, I don't think Brits generally do feel responsibility for the way they vote and the way that this might impact foreign policy, DTP. Of course I feel they should do. On the other hand, with Blair especially, few could see that coming - that he would turn out to be such a premier-league Bush arselicker. He makes no apology for that now; still less so back at the time. Yes, a lot of us here are pretty damned disgusted about him.

This is a good point, although a large part of the problem for people in the US who oppose our government's military adventurism is this constant refrain of "our allies need us to do this." Along the same lines, many are ideologically transfixed on notions of "freedom" and "democracy" that these words have some sort of magical power in changing and influencing US public opinion which can definitely affect how people vote.

As far as how things work between the top levels of government in the US and UK, my sense is that the ruling classes of both countries have been on the same page for decades now. This is why it's hard to fathom Blair as being some kind of Bush "arselicker," since there must have been some arses he was licking among the UK ruling elite as well. They may have been aligned with the US ruling elite whose arses were being licked by Bush. I don't think Blair was a puppet, or if he was, he couldn't have been Bush's puppet, since Bush was also a puppet.

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RE: Do Americans feel extra responsibility? - 9/10/2015 3:58:06 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

what is the alternative for the UK?

abandoning the EU I d fear would result in even more licking trans-atlantic boots ... do you really think Britain would be better off then?

this discussion is going on for decades now since Thatcher's times, and there are numerous examples how "independent" from the US British foreign and economic policies have been since then

I personally would be sad when Britain will leave the EU - and I d think another chance to make the EU better than the sum of lowest-level compromises would be lost

If the EU had stayed as it was sold to us when we joined, a common market, then fine. An EU superstate wont work with so many seperate interests at work. The ludicrous waste at Brussels and some of the absurd EU directives make the commission a laughing stock at times.

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