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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/25/2015 3:11:04 PM   
Bhruic


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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/25/2015 3:16:06 PM   
Bhruic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

How is an action that has no impact on you whatsoever disrespecting you?


When someone fails to hold a door open for me, it has no impact on me whatsoever. If they had not been there, I would have happily opened the door myself anyway... but the fact that they did not extend that common courtesy shows disrespect.

I am sure there are many other examples.

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/25/2015 3:28:42 PM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic
quote:


I'm not insulting or belittling you, nor treating you with contempt or am being dismissive. I'm not hurting your feelings, nor going out of my way to make your life more difficult or inconvenience you in any way.


was not mentioned by me, nor implicit in my comment, so I don't know what you are on about there.

When people post to a public forum, it is implicit that they expect to be read. That said, writing in a clear and correct manner that is not torture to read does imply some level of respect for the reader... and not doing so, implies the opposite.

So when people write atrociously, I don't feel any of the things you detailed... I just don't feel any obligation of mutual respect to read what they have written.



We must be using very different definitions for the words "respect" and "disrespect" (possible due to me not being a native speaker).
The definitions I use for both words are:

quote:


Definition of RESPECT

1: a relation or reference to a particular thing or situation <remarks having respect to an earlier plan>
2 : an act of giving particular attention : consideration
3
a : high or special regard : esteem
b : the quality or state of being esteemed
c plural : expressions of high or special regard or deference <paid our respects>
4: articular, detail <a good plan in some respects>

Definition of DISRESPECT

transitive verb
1: to have disrespect for
2: to show or express disrespect or contempt for : insult, dis <disrespected the officer>

Alternate, because the above one is circular:

Definition of DISRESPECT

1: : speech or behavior which shows that you do not think someone or something is valuable, important, etc. : lack of respect




Considering that disrespect is the opposite of respect, and respect means to hold something in (high) esteem, to show reverence, to hold in high regard, I still don't see how poor writing is disrespectful, because I don't understand why you would expect to be held in a position of esteem/regard, or to be held in reverence by any random person writing any random thing. It seems that most people writing wouldn't hold more than an average opinion of the average stranger reading, which precludes them respecting the average reader.

Similarly, based on the last definition provided, I don't see how poor writing is an indication that thinks poorly of the reader's value or importance.

So considering that we obviously must be using different definitions (considering that you've already argued against my assumption that you were implying that a poor writing was actively being contemptful or dismissive towards you, or disvalues personhood; at least some of which would be required to show disrespect according to the definitions I use) would you mind sharing what your definition of respect/disrespect is?

Edited to add:



quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

but the fact that they did not extend that common courtesy shows disrespect.




So can I safely assume from that that you're using "disrespect" and "discourteous" as synonyms of equal meaning?

If so, how does spelling errors that do not impact readability and are merely stylistic rules show discourtesy to you?
Unlike with the lack of an opened door (which does impact you directly), they do not require any extra effort on you part, so I fail to see how they equate to a lack of courtesy.




< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 9/25/2015 3:36:43 PM >

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/25/2015 4:23:50 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
We must be using very different definitions for the words "respect" and "disrespect" (possible due to me not being a native speaker).
The definitions I use for both words are:


This may or may not help, but I am thinking that it could be exactly that-just your interpretations of respect.

Seems like one view is that 'disrespect' involves actual effort towards insult, which includes purposely slighting someone, or actively discounting someone. Perhaps something that is intentional?

The other view that I am seeing is more passive, where a 'lack of respect' doesn't necessarily mean 'disrespect'. It refers more to an unawareness of an individual, rather than an intent to slight?

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/25/2015 5:07:51 PM   
Bhruic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
We must be using very different definitions for the words "respect" and "disrespect" (possible due to me not being a native speaker).
The definitions I use for both words are:


Perhaps. But I was using respect in the sense of:

2 : an act of giving particular attention : consideration
3b : the quality or state of being esteemed

In the sense of giving consideration to ones contemporaries or peers, and in the sense of having respect (unless they have demonstrated it is not warranted) for ones contemporaries or peers.

And I was using disrespect in the sense of:

1: : speech or behavior which shows that you do not think someone or something is valuable, important, etc. : lack of respect

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
Considering that disrespect is the opposite of respect, and respect means to hold something in (high) esteem, to show reverence, to hold in high regard, I still don't see how poor writing is disrespectful...


High regard is but one of the definitions of respect you cited. But your argument works better if you ignore the others, I understand.

quote:


because I don't understand why you would expect to be held in a position of esteem/regard, or to be held in reverence by any random person writing any random thing. It seems that most people writing wouldn't hold more than an average opinion of the average stranger reading, which precludes them respecting the average reader.

Similarly, based on the last definition provided, I don't see how poor writing is an indication that thinks poorly of the reader's value or importance.

So considering that we obviously must be using different definitions (considering that you've already argued against my assumption that you were implying that a poor writing was actively being contemptful or dismissive towards you, or disvalues personhood; at least some of which would be required to show disrespect according to the definitions I use) would you mind sharing what your definition of respect/disrespect is?


I do not expect to be revered. I expect only the minimum respect that is generally afforded to readers by writers... which is expressed by writers by the care they take in writing. When writers callously write badly, especially publicly, they pretty clearly indicate how little regard, value and respect they have for their readers.

When it is clear that a writer has little respect for me as a reader, I don't resort to a laundry list of emotional reactions... I simply do not respect them in return.

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

but the fact that they did not extend that common courtesy shows disrespect.




So can I safely assume from that that you're using "disrespect" and "discourteous" as synonyms of equal meaning?


I don't think that is a safe assumption. One may involve the other, but they are not of equal value. Further, disrespect can sometimes be earned, whereas discourtesy is generally regarded as always inappropriate.

quote:


If so, how does spelling errors that do not impact readability and are merely stylistic rules show discourtesy to you?
Unlike with the lack of an opened door (which does impact you directly), they do not require any extra effort on you part, so I fail to see how they equate to a lack of courtesy.


Without going in to too much detail... minor typos and occasional spelling errors do not particularly bother me, AND I never said they did. My point was with regard to atrocious grammar of the type given as examples at the beginning of this thread.

That said... my personal opinion is that if one is going to do something, one should attempt to do it well. Consequently, those who clearly do not care about such things wane in my esteem.


< Message edited by Bhruic -- 9/25/2015 5:08:44 PM >

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/25/2015 6:14:54 PM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

In the sense of giving consideration to ones contemporaries or peers, and in the sense of having respect (unless they have demonstrated it is not warranted) for ones contemporaries or peers.



That makes more sense. We do use the word different then, because for me "respect" is something that's not granted automatically in any circumstance. A common level of consideration for others falls under the category "courtesy" for me, while respect is earned by actions that prove the person in question to be deserving of a consideration above the normative courteous one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

And I was using disrespect in the sense of:

1: : speech or behavior which shows that you do not think someone or something is valuable, important, etc. : lack of respect



That still leaves me confused as to how you feel undervalued, or deemed to be of less of importance due to another's errors.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

High regard is but one of the definitions of respect you cited. But your argument works better if you ignore the others, I understand.

Perhaps. But I was using respect in the sense of:

2 : an act of giving particular attention : consideration
3b : the quality or state of being esteemed



I'm not ignoring the other ones. In fact I brought up 3b several time specifically by mentioning a lack of esteem. It's again apparently a difference in our perception in that esteem is something I accord to people who have shown through action to be deserving of a level over common courtesy, while you on the other hand apparently accord it as a matter of -to you- common courtesy.
As far as 2 goes, I can see how that one applies looking at it from a perspective of respect being a defacto given that one might loose, instead of a thing one gains through behavior. Though the oversight on applying it originally wan't intentionally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

I do not expect to be revered. I expect only the minimum respect that is generally afforded to readers by writers... which is expressed by writers by the care they take in writing. When writers callously write badly, especially publicly, they pretty clearly indicate how little regard, value and respect they have for their readers.

When it is clear that a writer has little respect for me as a reader, I don't resort to a laundry list of emotional reactions... I simply do not respect them in return.



Again it's apparently a different of respect being earned vs lost. I don't consider any writer to ever "generally afford respect to readers", nor do I see how any person writing recreational on a forum would have regard, value or respect for their readers. This is different -to me- when the work in question is commercial or professional, because in such cases the reader can expect a certain standard of the work considering it's being paid to be read to enjoy or utilize in some way.
On a forum, I don't count "being read" as the goal of writing, but rather "getting one's point or purpose across so that an open dialogue might be created". As such the standards I have for commercial or professional writing are much more focused on accuracy, while with writing intended to facilitate dialogue, I'm more more interested in a free flow thought exchange.

Different goals I suppose. *shrugs*


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

minor typos and occasional spelling errors do not particularly bother me, AND I never said they did. My point was with regard to atrocious grammar of the type given as examples at the beginning of this thread.



My bad, seeing that you responded to my post and quoted me, and I had specifically stated several times that it's exactly the minor typos and errors I don't bother with, while readability is important to me, I had assumed that your post specifically related to that.
Apologizes for misinterpreting your meaning.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

That said... my personal opinion is that if one is going to do something, one should attempt to do it well. Consequently, those who clearly do not care about such things wane in my esteem.



Agreed. And agreed that writing in such a way that the writing becomes an exercise in deciphering code instead of reading does not constitute "doing something well".
As far as the rest of our disagreement goes, I think it comes down to us having different standards (and perhaps goals) we use to define what it means to write "well" on a message board.

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/25/2015 7:11:49 PM   
Bhruic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

In the sense of giving consideration to ones contemporaries or peers, and in the sense of having respect (unless they have demonstrated it is not warranted) for ones contemporaries or peers.



That makes more sense. We do use the word different then, because for me "respect" is something that's not granted automatically in any circumstance. A common level of consideration for others falls under the category "courtesy" for me, while respect is earned by actions that prove the person in question to be deserving of a consideration above the normative courteous one.


Then we are splitting hairs.


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

And I was using disrespect in the sense of:

1: : speech or behavior which shows that you do not think someone or something is valuable, important, etc. : lack of respect



That still leaves me confused as to how you feel undervalued, or deemed to be of less of importance due to another's errors.


As it would, given that you do not equate courtesy as having anything to do with respect. But to reiterate:

2 : an act of giving particular attention : consideration

Also a fairly good definition of courtesy, in my opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

High regard is but one of the definitions of respect you cited. But your argument works better if you ignore the others, I understand.

Perhaps. But I was using respect in the sense of:

2 : an act of giving particular attention : consideration
3b : the quality or state of being esteemed



I'm not ignoring the other ones. In fact I brought up 3b several time specifically by mentioning a lack of esteem. It's again apparently a difference in our perception in that esteem is something I accord to people who have shown through action to be deserving of a level over common courtesy, while you on the other hand apparently accord it as a matter of -to you- common courtesy.
As far as 2 goes, I can see how that one applies looking at it from a perspective of respect being a defacto given that one might loose, instead of a thing one gains through behavior. Though the oversight on applying it originally wan't intentionally.


We do seem to use these terms differently. You seem to equate esteem with reverence. I reserve that for High esteem.

I attempt to maintain a basic level of courtesy, esteem and respect for my fellow humans, unless they demonstrate they do not deserve it. It's what keeps me from barging ahead of them in line at the grocers... and it's what compels me to think about what I am saying, and spellcheck.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

I do not expect to be revered. I expect only the minimum respect that is generally afforded to readers by writers... which is expressed by writers by the care they take in writing. When writers callously write badly, especially publicly, they pretty clearly indicate how little regard, value and respect they have for their readers.

When it is clear that a writer has little respect for me as a reader, I don't resort to a laundry list of emotional reactions... I simply do not respect them in return.



Again it's apparently a different of respect being earned vs lost. I don't consider any writer to ever "generally afford respect to readers"...



That may be a consequence of reading John Norman ;-)



quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
nor do I see how any person writing recreational on a forum would have regard, value or respect for their readers. This is different -to me- when the work in question is commercial or professional, because in such cases the reader can expect a certain standard of the work considering it's being paid to be read to enjoy or utilize in some way.
On a forum, I don't count "being read" as the goal of writing, but rather "getting one's point or purpose across so that an open dialogue might be created". As such the standards I have for commercial or professional writing are much more focused on accuracy, while with writing intended to facilitate dialogue, I'm more more interested in a free flow thought exchange.

Different goals I suppose. *shrugs*


To each his own... I have only ever been expressing my personal opinion, which is... Authors write for an audience, even here. I can only reiterate that it is usually evident when they don't care about the reader.

But a good conversation. Thank you.

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/25/2015 7:21:23 PM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

That may be a consequence of reading John Norman ;-)



Touche, especially considering that I taught myself to read English from a desire to read Norman.

I think it's where my tendency to make mile long rambling posts comes from. ;-)

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/26/2015 4:27:19 AM   
longwayhome


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

Not quite the sentiment you're going for, but it always makes me smile:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1NAwlepnSs



LOL! Yes!


I'd forgotten about that.


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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/26/2015 6:15:34 AM   
ShoeDivaManko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


I see a fair amount of personal photos like this:



Yeah no, it's not her nickname. It's a Poison Lingerie ad.

I need to get right on contacting that one.

K.





I have this monokini.

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/26/2015 6:22:49 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

Definition of RESPECT

1: a relation or reference to a particular thing or situation <remarks having respect to an earlier plan>
2 : an act of giving particular attention : consideration
3
a : high or special regard : esteem
b : the quality or state of being esteemed
c plural : expressions of high or special regard or deference <paid our respects>
4: articular, detail <a good plan in some respects>

Definition of DISRESPECT

transitive verb
1: to have disrespect for
2: to show or express disrespect or contempt for : insult, dis <disrespected the officer>

Alternate, because the above one is circular:

Definition of DISRESPECT

1: : speech or behavior which shows that you do not think someone or something is valuable, important, etc. : lack of respect



Considering that disrespect is the opposite of respect, and respect means to hold something in (high) esteem, to show reverence, to hold in high regard, I still don't see how poor writing is disrespectful, because I don't understand why you would expect to be held in a position of esteem/regard, or to be held in reverence by any random person writing any random thing. It seems that most people writing wouldn't hold more than an average opinion of the average stranger reading, which precludes them respecting the average reader.

Similarly, based on the last definition provided, I don't see how poor writing is an indication that thinks poorly of the reader's value or importance.





I think the last line in this quoted snippet of your reply is the key one.

I can certainly see how a person could regard poor writing as an indication that the author cares little for the readers experience. Hence - disrespect.


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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/27/2015 2:12:29 AM   
GoddessLauraLee


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Status: offline 		OH

MY

GOD


I thought I got bad messages.

*picks up jaw from the floor*

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/27/2015 3:55:28 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessLauraLee

OH

MY

GOD


I thought I got bad messages.

*picks up jaw from the floor*

That's good, dude***, 'cause after that introduction that you just made, you almost received one.


*** Please note that I call everybody "dude". I am not calling your gender into question.


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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/27/2015 7:56:50 AM   
ResidentSadist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
How about this one............

.........The truth is you are simply average........

First off, I must say that I think you and your mustache are far above average. That man has no taste.

To add to your topic, I once got a stereotypical 'fuck my wife' letter. I kindly explained that I was looking for intimate live in relationships, not intimate sexual encounters that wouldn't lead to a live in situation. He got furiously mad at me because I wouldn't torture and fuck his wife.

What a hoot.

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/27/2015 9:05:34 AM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
To add to your topic, I once got a stereotypical 'fuck my wife' letter. I kindly explained that I was looking for intimate live in relationships, not intimate sexual encounters that wouldn't lead to a live in situation. He got furiously mad at me because I wouldn't torture and fuck his wife.

What a hoot.

I am glad to know that women aren't the only ones that get bitched at by other men because we won't cater to some stranger's fantasy.

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/27/2015 10:06:11 AM   
Extravagasm


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quote:

Post 110 ShoeDivaManko: I have this monokini.
Maybe consider getting in it, as your new avatar . . . welcome back ;)
Suits rather effective coming and going Lol . .


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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 9/27/2015 10:51:34 AM   
NookieNotes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
How about this one............

.........The truth is you are simply average........

First off, I must say that I think you and your mustache are far above average. That man has no taste.


LOL! Thanks. *smiles*

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 10/23/2015 1:06:25 PM   
Kana


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quote:

Kana posted a couple of years ago that he did the same thing and if I remember right, he was pretty horrified by the messages that came to him as "her".

I was embarrassed for My gender.
And equally impressed that any woman sticks around and actually sorts through all that swill to find a Dom. That showed a real need.

Sad thing was that there were actually a few good guys. They stood out like a diamond in a dumpster. Most weren't super experienced but at least they came off as decent people.
And there were a few film companies that were very persistent. One knucklehead kept threatening to expose me as a fraud (which of course I was) unless I sent him nudes that he could consider "me' for a film session.
Yeah-he was a real scumbag fuck.

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 10/23/2015 2:58:41 PM   
J0K3ER


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

Given the assignment to defend my idea of what intellect means, I'd probably argue it's more the ability to SOLVE an (often complex) problem more so than the mere SPEED at which one solves that problem or assimilates the detail inherent in understanding the problem.



Ability to solve problems shows very little, precisely because all problem solving skills in any area of life or field rely on prior acquired knowledge in order to even make an attempt. An African bushman with exceptional intelligence won't be able to solve the simplest of math problems if you hand it to him written down in algebraic form. Depending on his culture, and his culture's knowledge of numbers, he might not even be able to solve it if you present it to him in the form of four sticks in the dirt, because some cultures don't have knowledge of numbers over 3.

It looks like crumpets has overtaken the Medusa. she is not only trying to muddy the waters by false pretense, also by having piles of unorganized and mixed up data in her brain that she mistakenly thought she had assimilated, while she definitely need too much time to sort things out and rearrange them each in its proper category. we all know human judgment can be affected and influenced by, e.g. " drugs, alcohol, amazon gifts. etc.....".
she must have forgotten that the tribe who could not count past 3 were not Africans. Ironically enough they were ( The Pirahã people ) who lived in ( amazon). she should have known everything regarding the word " amazon" by now , I notice an extremely SLOW learning process here.
Anyway regardless where those people who did not know the number "4" lived. her verdict on a man who cant solve an Algebraic equation is unintelligent . I digress, because that man could solve more complicated problems like :they know the usefulness and location of all important plants in their area; they understand the behavior of local animals and how to catch and avoid them; and they can walk into the jungle naked, with no tools or weapons, and walk out three days later with baskets of fruit, nuts, and small game.
now how about sending you "Medusa" to the woods with your Mathematics skills and see how long you can survive?.
Medusa, your argument is unfounded.example you can teach a mechanic all the technics on how to get an amazon gift, and he can tell you what is wrong with your car just from looking at it. BTW do they have cars on amazon? one last thing about intelligence, it is assessed based on where it leads you. and certainly intelligence is not needed to morph into "findomme".
I forgot something to tell you. Belgians rank very low in Mathematics and many other sciences.


< Message edited by J0K3ER -- 10/23/2015 3:00:26 PM >

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RE: Are The Messages Really True? - 10/23/2015 3:07:42 PM   
Missokyst


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Status: offline 		Thank you Kana, for reeling it in.

Indeed I have exchanged emails with some very nice guys.
Since putting my profile up again I was getting at least 2 new contacts per day. Not bad considering my age.
Each one, while making the initial sexual object known, was quite nice about my decline to the offer.
I am very specific in my response, and my profile is detailed.
Perhaps it is because of my age I have not gotten the "fat" response. lol I could get it. I am heavy, and therefore it would not bother me all that much.
So far I have not gotten the old, wrinkled, saggy, attacks. Men either don't reply to my response, or they are very nice about my rejection.
I think I am pretty lucky. Though I will say that since I make my profile even more defined I have not gotten as many interested messages.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

Kana posted a couple of years ago that he did the same thing and if I remember right, he was pretty horrified by the messages that came to him as "her".

I was embarrassed for My gender.
And equally impressed that any woman sticks around and actually sorts through all that swill to find a Dom. That showed a real need.

Sad thing was that there were actually a few good guys. They stood out like a diamond in a dumpster. Most weren't super experienced but at least they came off as decent people.
And there were a few film companies that were very persistent. One knucklehead kept threatening to expose me as a fraud (which of course I was) unless I sent him nudes that he could consider "me' for a film session.
Yeah-he was a real scumbag fuck.



_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 120
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