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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/1/2015 5:27:29 PM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		That's because Sharia Law is anathema to to the western way of life; aka, women have no freedom or say and are not even treated like people let alone equals.
Gays and lesbians are sentenced to death just because of their sexuality.

Next???
How does that differ from the bible?

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/1/2015 7:31:51 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
If there is evidence Spanish is the majority language in the US, the one time pain of making Spanish the official language of US I think is worth the long term benefits of a unified language. It doesn't have to be Spanish. Spanish or English is just an example of what it could be. But pragmatically, English makes more sense as more nations in the world speak English as second or third language than any other languages. I don't think enough countries speak Spanish to justify Spanish. But then again, there is a whole south america. Either way, it doesn't matter, EVEN if Spanish was the unifying language. English can be second language.

Spanish is the 2nd most commonly spoken language in the world. Mandarin is first. English trails Spanish as 3rd.

Based on people identifying as native Spanish speakers, the U.S. is the second largest Spanish-speaking country in the world, with Mexico being first.

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/1/2015 9:10:12 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Check more than one source... I did .... Some list Spanish as number 4 with English as number 2... So numbers are not set in concrete

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 8:02:53 AM   
blnymph


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Status: offline 		I saw a similar list in a book issued in the 1980s: 1st Mandarin, 2nd Spanish (Castillano), 3rd English, 4th Arabic ...
(a list based on which one is the first language of persons)

maybe both lists can be correct if the second takes 2nd, 3rd etc. languages into account which might bring English far higher up in numbers on a global scale

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 10:05:08 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Check more than one source... I did .... Some list Spanish as number 4 with English as number 2... So numbers are not set in concrete


Got a cite for that?

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 10:16:25 AM   
bounty44


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Status: offline 		something fun to consider---what is the most popular "second language" in the world? id put forth its English.

and I suspect, along with aviation, its probably the "official language" in a number of other areas. its one of the official languages of the Olympics...


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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 10:18:34 AM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: bounty44

something fun to consider---what is the most popular "second language" in the world? id put forth its English.

and I suspect, along with aviation, its probably the "official language" in a number of other areas. its one of the official languages of the Olympics...

Don't forget comrade it is also one of the official languages of the u.n.


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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 12:06:00 PM   
blnymph


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Status: offline 		English is at present a lingua franca in many fields - unofficially, but by silent agreement which is how these things work best.

It is also the unofficial language of collarchat ...


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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 12:41:31 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Check more than one source... I did .... Some list Spanish as number 4 with English as number 2... So numbers are not set in concrete


Some sites base their rankings on which is the most widely spoken native language, others include first and second language speakers. But second language proficiency numbers are notoriously unreliable, because of how subjective the definition of a second language speaker can be.

I have to track this every year, so I am familiar with different methods of rankings and what patterns have shown to be consistently reliable over the last two decades.

The first link is the organization that the CIA, the UN and UNESCO rely on for official numbers. The second link is an article that uses the first link as their source, but it contains an interesting infographic.

https://www.ethnologue.com/statistics/size
http://themindunleashed.org/2015/06/see-the-worlds-most-spoken-languages-in-one-eye-opening-infographic.html


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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 12:47:48 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

something fun to consider---what is the most popular "second language" in the world? id put forth its English.

and I suspect, along with aviation, its probably the "official language" in a number of other areas. its one of the official languages of the Olympics...



English is reported as the most common, though only a handful of countries report anything over moderate proficiency. Frankly I was expecting to find higher proficiency rates when I began looking.

And over the past few years I have seen a growing trend in Chinese companies providing funding for Chinese studies in US high schools, which is resulting in Chinese rapidly becoming a popular second language as well.

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 6:59:46 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		sure

another

another

another

another

Get how these things go...

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/2/2015 7:07:46 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 8:35:23 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

sure

another

another

another

another

Get how these things go...

Butch

Yes, I get how these things go. It is part of my job to get how these things go. Which is why I specifically addressed, in my last post, the major reason that sites differ in rankings.

I also provided links to reputable sources whose findings are acknowledged by the CIA, by the United Nations, and by UNESCO, among others.

You counter that with Listverse, an old Listverse article at that? And other sources citing numbers from as far back as 1996?

I seriously doubt that any of those organizations would give much credence to the site Listverse, especially considering those figures are from 2008.

Or the photius site, where you provided links to info almost 20 years old.

Or the third link, which cites info from 1999.

Or the fourth, which uses info from between 1997-2010, best as I can tell.

I could spend all day supporting statements with links from the internet. But they don't mean anything if they are outdated and unreliable.




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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 8:43:29 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		My point is your statistics are not the only ones out there... I stopped after a few there were many many more with opposing numbers... I think it is disingenuous of you to claim you know when you don't... you were basing your whole argument on faulty information with no bearing on which language is most spoken in the US.

It was a faulty argument that does not make sense. Spanish is NOT the most spoken language in the US.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/2/2015 8:48:28 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 9:14:16 PM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
My point is your statistics are not the only ones out there... I stopped after a few there were many many more with opposing numbers...

So when you get conflicting information, the first step is look at the credibility of the sources. Which I addressed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I think it is disingenuous of you to claim you know when you don't...

I am not being disingenuous. I stated factual, up-to-date information that can be easily confirmed as coming from a reliable source, a source recognized by powerful national and international organizations. Nothing you provided disputed that. So you have no basis for saying that I don't know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
you were basing your whole argument on faulty information with no bearing on which language is most spoken in the US.


Again, how is my information faulty? You still haven't addressed that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
It was a faulty argument that does not make sense. Spanish is NOT the most spoken language in the US.

I never said that Spanish is the most spoken language in the U.S. English is. Nothing that I have said disputes that.



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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 9:28:51 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Then why even post what you did in answer to Greta's post? It makes no sense.

"Based on people identifying as native Spanish speakers, the U.S. is the second largest Spanish-speaking country in the world"


Where in your statics does it say how many people in the US speak Spanish or that this makes them the second largest? And where is the number of Spanish speaking people in the US make it the dominant language of the land... Remember Gerta was just saying whatever language was dominant should be used as an official language... You answered with a post that does not address her main point with statistics that are not even universally agreed upon even if they were relevant.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 10:25:24 PM   
Wayward5oul


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Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline 		Her post addressed making languages official, based on the dominant language in the country. She then went on to address how widely some languages, specifically Spanish and English, are spoken across the world. I think that identifying the top three languages of the world and their areas of prominence would add an interesting perspective to that. I thought it was relevant. If you don't think its relevant, that's your opinion. You can ignore it and go on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Then why even post what you did in answer to Greta's post? It makes no sense.

Am I not allowed to post on this board without first getting my content approved by you? Is there a panel that I need to run posts by to make sure the posts are relevant in the way that panel thinks is appropriate?

You called my reasoning faulty yet you cannot refute what I said.

You said it wasn't relevant, even though she specifically mentioned the 2 of the 3 languages I mentioned in my post, and she used them in reference to their dominance in the world. My post provided information about those exact things. Seems relevant to me.

Then you said I wasn't making sense when I said Spanish was the dominant language in the U.S. Yet I never said that.

What is really bothering you about this?


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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/2/2015 10:41:50 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		But if you are allowed to address my post so can I yours... we don't have to agree but we can try our best to point out faulty thinking... then if we can't agree it is up to others to judge... if they give a crap.

I don't have to be right necessarily and will not argue to death over the point... I just suggested your facts were in question and you seemed to take it personally... Don't... i don't mean it that way.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 1:59:06 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

personally speaking, in addition to speaking English, I think learning to speak Spanish and Mandarin would be a smart thing..

Considering that US borders South America and Mexico, I am quite surprise that Spanish isn't compulsory in schools too! Just for business opportunities in neighbouring areas, it would be good to know your neighbour's language.

I think learning Mandarin only makes sense if you want to do business in China. Other than that, most educated China folks speak perfect American English, full on with the accent as well. They learn American English out there. It's kinda weird, but then again, I've definitely heard Caucasians speaking Mandarin in perfect mainland Chinese accent, that you couldn't believe it's not a Chinese speaking it.

But for me, it's compulsory, as I'm Chinese and I would get crucified in China for not being able to speak it.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/3/2015 2:00:00 AM >

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 2:06:42 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Why don't we go the whole hog and demand that everyone speak the designated International language that all pilots need to learn to hold a license??


Actually, quite practically, if the whole world agrees to one unifying first language, it would be one of the best things ever! One of the best thing to get people to understand and get to know each other better is, being able to understand what the person is saying.

But of course this can never happen, since you have like the whole of Quebec in Canada refusing to learn a word of English and banning English on shop signs, as a protest. Like people take it so personal that why does English have to be the leading language! It's these insignificant little things that blocks progress. And again, I am not saying it has to be English. I'm just saying, one unifying language of the world would be great! Which ever that language is.

Like I am just thinking, for example for the oppressed Saudi women and oppressed North Korean, and if we want to reach out to them, they can't even understand us. I would just really love to be able to communicate with any culture or any race, or any nationality, without my lack of knowing their native language as a barrier.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/3/2015 2:07:30 AM >

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 2:48:05 AM   
blnymph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Why don't we go the whole hog and demand that everyone speak the designated International language that all pilots need to learn to hold a license??


Actually, quite practically, if the whole world agrees to one unifying first language, it would be one of the best things ever! One of the best thing to get people to understand and get to know each other better is, being able to understand what the person is saying.

But of course this can never happen, since you have like the whole of Quebec in Canada refusing to learn a word of English and banning English on shop signs, as a protest. Like people take it so personal that why does English have to be the leading language! It's these insignificant little things that blocks progress. And again, I am not saying it has to be English. I'm just saying, one unifying language of the world would be great! Which ever that language is.



That's just what languages like Esperanto, Volapük, Interlingua and a few others where developed for ... nice idea, not new at all, no big success so far, probably because many people didnt care.

But if English, what English? English English ...

(in reply to Greta75)
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