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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 2:53:39 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Why don't we go the whole hog and demand that everyone speak the designated International language that all pilots need to learn to hold a license??


Actually, quite practically, if the whole world agrees to one unifying first language, it would be one of the best things ever! One of the best thing to get people to understand and get to know each other better is, being able to understand what the person is saying.

But of course this can never happen, since you have like the whole of Quebec in Canada refusing to learn a word of English and banning English on shop signs, as a protest. Like people take it so personal that why does English have to be the leading language! It's these insignificant little things that blocks progress. And again, I am not saying it has to be English. I'm just saying, one unifying language of the world would be great! Which ever that language is.



That's just what languages like Esperanto, Volapük, Interlingua and a few others where developed for ... nice idea, not new at all, no big success so far, probably because many people didnt care.

But if English, what English? English English ...


Yep.
Why that as opposed to American English??
Because that it the type of English used at the UN conferences (with English spelling).


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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 3:05:11 AM   
blnymph


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Status: offline 		I d prefer it too - or Irish English - because they apparently are the easiest to comprehend when spoken, in my experience RTÉ news speakers take the most care to make themselves understandable even for those who have English as a second language (like Irish speakers).

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 3:05:13 AM   
Greta75


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Status: offline 		Just any form of English ha! I mean, the fact that a Brit can understand American English and vice versa. And Canadians and Australians also got their own style of English but it's not alien to the point where most English speakers cannot understand. But the basics are there. Most of the words are mostly the same.

I had someone criticized my English as broken English in another post. I try to minimized the fractures, but it's still there prominently I am sure, but in truth, in real life, I speak even more broken especially with local people. Our local English is spoken very lazily, the goal is to eliminate as many unnecessary words in a sentence as possible. For example, maybe in western English, it's like, "Will you please switch on the lights?" We would say, "On the lights please"


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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 3:19:32 AM   
blnymph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Just any form of English ha! I mean, the fact that a Brit can understand American English and vice versa.
...



That's just the point - more and more they can't. English BBC productions are overdubbed for the American market, some Hollywood productions targetted for the US market only are barely understandable elsewhere. (There was a thread to just that recently)

Whereas written English apparently is not an issue, spoken English is.

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 11:34:46 AM   
Wayward5oul


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Just any form of English ha! I mean, the fact that a Brit can understand American English and vice versa.
...



That's just the point - more and more they can't. English BBC productions are overdubbed for the American market, some Hollywood productions targetted for the US market only are barely understandable elsewhere. (There was a thread to just that recently)

Whereas written English apparently is not an issue, spoken English is.

Exactly. As it is with many languages. It wouldn't matter what language was chosen were we to go with a worldwide language. Even within languages, there are wide variations. I know people who are fluent in American English who cannot understand English English. I know native Spanish speakers from Mexico who have trouble understanding Argentine Spanish. And don't even get me started on comprehension difficulties between American English speakers from the south and those from Boston...

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 12:04:39 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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Status: offline 		As usual, making sweeping statements from your encapsulated world-view.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Just any form of English ha! I mean, the fact that a Brit can understand American English and vice versa.

Not always the case.
Words are different, phrasiology is different, even the same words are pronounced differently.
Add god-knows how many different accents and you have many many completely different vocalised languages taken from the same written word.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
And Canadians and Australians also got their own style of English but it's not alien to the point where most English speakers cannot understand.

I completely disagree.

Stick an Aussie, a Scot, a Geordie, a Brummie, a Canadian, a New Yorker, someone from the Bronx and Luisiana in a conference and you'd need a translator for each and every one of them even though they are all speaking 'English'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
But the basics are there. Most of the words are mostly the same.

Ummm.... Actually, they are not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I had someone criticized my English as broken English in another post. I try to minimized the fractures, but it's still there prominently I am sure, but in truth, in real life, I speak even more broken especially with local people. Our local English is spoken very lazily, the goal is to eliminate as many unnecessary words in a sentence as possible. For example, maybe in western English, it's like, "Will you please switch on the lights?" We would say, "On the lights please"

Even we don't say "Will you please switch on the lights?". lol.
That would be very 'proper' text-book English and hardly ever used except for English exams.
We say "lights please", or just "lights?".

Your most prominent mistake in written English is using the wrong words because of the way you speak.
Example: using "his" when you really mean "he's" (slang for 'he is') and not using the '..ed' (past version) of a word like 'surprise' instead of 'surprised'.
But I've gotten used to your posts so although it sometimes takes several readings, I generally get the gist.


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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 12:52:36 PM   
thompsonx


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My point is your statistics are not the only ones out there...

The ones you posted were out of date and misleading.


I stopped after a few there were many many more with opposing numbers...

You stopped when you noticed that you were full of shit.

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 12:57:43 PM   
thompsonx


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I don't have to be right necessarily  


You seldom are. 

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 1:02:41 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Why don't we go the whole hog and demand that everyone speak the designated International language that all pilots need to learn to hold a license??


Actually, quite practically, if the whole world agrees to one unifying first language, it would be one of the best things ever! One of the best thing to get people to understand and get to know each other better is, being able to understand what the person is saying.

But of course this can never happen, since you have like the whole of Quebec in Canada refusing to learn a word of English and banning English on shop signs, as a protest. Like people take it so personal that why does English have to be the leading language! It's these insignificant little things that blocks progress. And again, I am not saying it has to be English. I'm just saying, one unifying language of the world would be great! Which ever that language is.

Like I am just thinking, for example for the oppressed Saudi women and oppressed North Korean, and if we want to reach out to them, they can't even understand us. I would just really love to be able to communicate with any culture or any race, or any nationality, without my lack of knowing their native language as a barrier.

Actually, Canada has 2 official languages- English & French.. and yes, they are official, not unofficial as it is in the US.. Quebec as a province has the right to govern itself as they wish and it is their right & provincial laws to have signs in French.. (not a protest as you claim).. anyone that doesnt like it, too bad.. It actually has more to do with them wanting to keep their unique culture alive and speaking French is simply part of that.. Canada is not a "melting pot" like the US is, people in Canada can keep their culture, etc and they arent told to assimilate as they are expected to do in the US.. They do speak English in Quebec but if you are a tourist they will treat you better if you at least attempt to speak a little french first.. (after you have mutilated their language I expect they will gladly switch to speaking English instead ).. It simply makes sense that when you travel (no matter where in the world) to learn a least a few phrases of the local language..

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 1:03:10 PM   
thompsonx


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Considering that US borders South America and Mexico

No it does not.

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 1:04:56 PM   
Alice20


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Status: offline 		Yikes

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/3/2015 1:14:34 PM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		Like I am just thinking, for example for the oppressed Saudi women and oppressed North Korean,


How many times have you been to n. korea? If you have not been there how do you know of this oppression?


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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/5/2015 4:50:24 AM   
blnymph


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Status: offline 		since a "universal" language is not to be expected the alternative might be to learn a few more


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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/5/2015 2:48:28 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


Stick an Aussie, a Scot, a Geordie, a Brummie, a Canadian, a New Yorker, someone from the Bronx and Luisiana in a conference and you'd need a translator for each and every one of them even though they are all speaking 'English'.




Not in my experience.

English people would have no problem understanding Aussies and Americans from anywhere, but they wouldn't be able to understand a Geordie or Brummie.

The reason being that much of the diction in these places in England are simply unknown outside of England and even outside of the area of England of which they are spoken.

I don't think people are grasping how much English people do not speak English as it is known in the rest of the world.

As you say Geordie, I'm close to Newcastle so I can expand upon this with some examples of English words and how they are pronounced up here, which would leave anyone from outside of the area scratching their heads:

There surely isn't anything comparable anywhere else in the English speaking world, and the Brummies, Scousers and others from other parts of England all have their own diction and slang that just wouldn't resemble English to the outside world.

Alright mate? = Arlreet marra.

Would you go? = Wad thou gan?

Don't do that? = Divvent dee that, man.

If you don't ask, you don't get = Shy bairns get nee broth.

Just a few small examples, but this is every day communication in my part of the world and just about every sentence I can imagine would equally leave a foreigner or a Cockney or a Mancunian scratching their heads thinking what?

And then there is a whole series of words that aren't slang, pitmatic or shortened, it's more that they simply aren't spoken anywhere else in the English speaking world such as:

A ginnel = an alley.

The netty = the toilet.

Over the knot = drunk.

Brazen-fond = cheeky.

On the morra = tomorrow.

Just a few more small examples, but there are boat-loads spoken in every sentence.

Combine the use of words that went out of fashion in other parts of the world a long time ago, the use of words that are derived from Old Norse and Anglo-Saxon and the slang we use, and you just won't find anywhere comparable in terms of the local language being indecipherable to the untutored English speaking ear.




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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/5/2015 2:51:51 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Thats very close to Burns: Shy bairns get nee broth

Shy borns get no broth.

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/5/2015 3:39:36 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

It simply makes sense that when you travel (no matter where in the world) to learn a least a few phrases of the local language..


God yes. Enough, at least, so that you don't look bloody rude. I know so many people, even seasoned travellers, who don't bother.

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/5/2015 11:47:23 PM   
Kirata


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~ FR ~

Interesting reading for anyone so inclined...

English: The Inescapable Language

K.



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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/6/2015 8:21:25 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

since a "universal" language is not to be expected the alternative might be to learn a few more




May I ask what prompted you to learn a second language?

Butch

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/6/2015 9:53:55 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

It simply makes sense that when you travel (no matter where in the world) to learn a least a few phrases of the local language..


God yes. Enough, at least, so that you don't look bloody rude. I know so many people, even seasoned travellers, who don't bother.

as long as you dont botch it up too, too badly.. like some corporations have done when trying to market in a new country..

10 Funniest Badly-Translated Ads
http://www.oddee.com/item_97732.aspx

my fav translation marketing campaign is...

"U.S. beer-making giant Coors apparently thought their slogan, “Turn it loose!” would translate to Spanish just fine. Unfortunately, “Turn it Loose” came out, “Suffer from Diarrhea” instead.
Frankly, if you've ever had Coors... this slogan isn't too far off the mark. "


I wonder how well (or badly?) those language translation apps for smart phones work..

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RE: Why isn't English the First Language of US? - 10/6/2015 9:57:11 AM   
LadyPact


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Status: offline 		I was hoping they work well. I've only seen the ads but I thought it was a wonderful idea for those who travel.


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