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RE: women to register for the draft - 10/16/2015 6:42:16 PM

TNDommeK

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yea, Im not registering for shit. Im pretty sure that some of my feminist friends wont like me for this statement, but Ill be in the kitchen; you bra burning ladies can go enjoy the front lines.

ETA: I fully support you, just not my thing.

by the way, this was my 7000th post!!! pretty sure Id still have those F'n paddles had I not requested this ice cream cone.

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RE: women to register for the draft - 10/16/2015 6:57:19 PM

shiftyw

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I think compulsory military service is crap for BOTH genders.

But I agree the current set up is sexist and shitty.

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Post #: 22

RE: women to register for the draft - 10/16/2015 7:27:23 PM

JVoV

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Selective Service as it stands now is quite sexist, and likely unconstitutional.

No law should exist for a man that doesn't apply to a woman.

(in reply to shiftyw)

Post #: 23

RE: women to register for the draft - 10/16/2015 7:27:37 PM

dcnovice

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FR

Now that I'm safely past draft age and too decrepit to reach the enlistment office let alone the front, I think the draft has a certain appeal. If structured correctly, the draft spreads the burden and risk of serving throughout the citizenry rather than "outsourcing" it to career military.

I've always been struck by an experience during Desert Storm. I worked back then at a major educational/publishing concern whose professional staff was almost exclusively white and middle class. Virtually none of my colleagues knew anyone in harm's way. I think maybe one person had a friend whose cousin was in uniform. Things were starkly different in the cafeteria, where the largely black staff had adorned the bulletin board with photos of husbands, brothers, sons, friends, and so forth who were in combat.

I like to hope lawmakers who actually knew some of the folks heading into battle might be a little less cavalier about dispatching them.

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RE: women to register for the draft - 10/16/2015 8:49:03 PM

MercTech

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In the early years of the U.S.; every male citizen from age 18 to 45 was considered subject to militia call up and was required to maintain weapons. The militia could be called up for up to 90 days. Militia duty extending past 90 days required an act of Congress if called up by federal authority or by state legislature if called up by order of a state governor. It was part of being a citizen.

The concept changed to the draft during the Lincoln administration. It became a lottery on who would be impressed into involuntary military duty. If you were rich enough to pay $350.00 you could buy out of the draft. If you could coerce or convince or pay someone to take your place; you didn't have to go. When the draft under the Lincoln laws were enacted; it sparked riots with a violent military reaction. The Five Points Massacre was one of the most extreme examples with the U.S. Navy shelling poor neighborhoods of New York City.

The U.S. used the draft to fill the military ranks for the Vietnam War. I turned 18 in the last year registration for the draft was required back in the 70s. If I remember right; registration for the draft was reinstated during the Desert Storm war in Kuwait. Actual selective service call up for service has not been done since the Vietnam Conflict.

Requiring all citizens, male and female, to register for involuntary call to military service would be another milestone in eliminating separate standards based on gender. Yep, it could be spun for Fox as; you want equal power, pay an equal price.

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 25

RE: women to register for the draft - 10/16/2015 10:16:30 PM

ShaharThorne

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Grandpa was Navy...WWII, Pacific theater

Dad was Navy...secretly stationed in Cambodia

My brothers and I were Army in the 80s and 90s...I was stationed in S. Korea, they were stationed in S. Korea and other international sites, including Bosnia and Afghanistan. Both brothers did retire, I got out early due to family situations. One of my brothers still goes overseas as a contractor for the military due to his training, another had to retire due to a humvee rolling over on him, causing severe back trauma. He is now a postmaster in a hamlet here in TX.

Personally, if women want to serve in the combat situations, perhaps the selective service should include women. I do remember the Army calling me back up when 9/11 happened. At that time, I was overweight, had Lizard in school and going to college. I knew I could not handle being back in the service. I told them no and they left it at that. The military is all volunteery(?) now so unless Congress reinstates the draft, I would not be too worried.

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RE: women to register for the draft - 10/17/2015 12:23:18 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

The U.S. used the draft to fill the military ranks for the Vietnam War. I turned 18 in the last year registration for the draft was required back in the 70s. If I remember right; registration for the draft was reinstated during the Desert Storm war in Kuwait. Actual selective service call up for service has not been done since the Vietnam Conflict.

I would be willing to bet (50¢) that it was President Reagan that re-instated selective service registration. I turned 18 on 30 AUG, 1982 and was required to register within 30 days of my birthday.

Michael

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RE: women to register for the draft - 10/17/2015 8:43:41 AM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My Israeli cousins all serve. But only two years for women versus three for men. And only the Ultra Orthodox females can be excused because they can't accidentally touch a strange man.

I just can't help myself so I must ask is it ok if they touch a strange man on purpose?

Cute, very cute. Although Orthodox men cannot touch strange women either.
The Man and I had a job (home remodeling) in an area where Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox are the primary inhabitants earlier this summer. When the tenant came by to talk, I had to step back or he wouldn't get close enough for The Man to be able to hear him well.

To be serious though, the risk of combat for women is not that there's an equal risk of being injured or killed. It's rape. How many countries do you think would not use rape against captured female soldiers?

That's why Israeli women aren't on the front lines. We know that many Muslims feel that raping a female of another religion is their duty and will be rewarded in heaven.

Male POWs aren't risking gang rape on a daily basis.

So the risk for women is much higher than it is for men. Where's the gender equality when only one gender is at risk?

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 10/17/2015 8:45:00 AM >

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RE: women to register for the draft - 10/17/2015 11:37:01 AM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Cute, very cute. Although Orthodox men cannot touch strange women either.

That was going to be my follow up question...how strange can the man/woman be?

To be serious though, the risk of combat for women is not that there's an equal risk of being injured or killed. It's rape. How many countries do you think would not use rape against captured female soldiers?

Rape works both ways. The female soldier has only slightly less chance of being by her own as by the enemy.
I have faced women in combat and it is more than a little difficult. They are not like men at all. When men recognize they have been sandbaged they will run up a white flag and call for a sit down. From george washington at ft. necessary to the present day that is most usually how it works. Women on the other hand are more like the black knight. Maybe they recognize that they are going to get fucked to death anyway so why make it easy.

That's why Israeli women aren't on the front lines. We know that many Muslims feel that raping a female of another religion is their duty and will be rewarded in heaven.

I don't believe that has anything to do with it. When men have been in the field under fire for a bit they would fuck a snake if someone would hold it's head. Soldiers are taught to hate their enemy so what ever you do to them is ok.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 29

RE: women to register for the draft - 10/17/2015 1:46:30 PM

DesFIP

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3196896/Now-ISIS-makes-rape-religious-doctrine-claiming-Koran-condones-encourages-attacking-women-not-Muslims.html

This was the first article in a long list.

The difficulties about male/female interaction for the Orthodox is that often, handshake agreements are common. Especially in the diamond (jewelry) district. Women can't really compete, because they can't shake hands. Traditionally in NYC, the Orthodox are a preponderance of the wholesale jewelry business.

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RE: women to register for the draft - 10/17/2015 3:16:56 PM

NorthernGent

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Deleted

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 10/17/2015 3:23:44 PM >

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RE: women to register for the draft - 10/17/2015 3:23:38 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

When Nazi Germany was facing defeat on many fronts, young German children joined the ranks of soldiers as a last ditch effort.
Historically, women have come to the defense of their tribal nations, joined their husbands in battle against invaders, etc. Women have also become marauders, and these assorted bands of women whose male warriors were wiped out became legendary Amazons, many of them widowed mothers left with young children to raise and protect from further annihilation.

You shouldn't use Germany in an attempt to illustrate your point.

In fact, one of the main reasons why Germany lost the war was that they maintained an orchestrated policy of not employing 'Total War'.

They maintained the ideological standpoint that women were intended to breed children for 'The Fatherland', not get involved in war.

Compare that with say Britain and the Soviet Union, where everyone was involved in one capacity or another, and Germany is really not a good example of everyone, women included, being expected to rally to the cause.

In fact, during WW1, it wasn't uncommon for the Germans to strip churches of their bells for the metal, but women involved in war? No chance.

Contrast that with Britain during WW1 where women made bombs through the clock, morning 'til night.

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RE: women to register for the draft - 10/17/2015 4:07:40 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: MercTech

In the early years of the U.S.; every male citizen from age 18 to 45 was considered subject to militia call up and was required to maintain weapons. The militia could be called up for up to 90 days. Militia duty extending past 90 days required an act of Congress if called up by federal authority or by state legislature if called up by order of a state governor. It was part of being a citizen.

Do we have any cites to give us an indication of how this actually worked?

(in reply to MercTech)

Post #: 33

RE: women to register for the draft - 10/17/2015 8:04:28 PM

dreamlady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

You shouldn't use Germany in an attempt to illustrate your point.

It was an illustration of desperation. People who perceive their very existence is being threatened will resort to desperate measures, once their reserves have been tapped out.

Are we as a nation in such desperate straits? We have a fine reserve force of well-trained soldiers who are on call to serve their country around the clock, if need be.

Trees, meet forest.

Furthermore, what does this say about us as a superpower when we, unlike the Israelis who have to make do with their small tract of territories and human resources, are not living under unrelentingly overt threats to our national security and way of life, other than the covert threat of domestic terrorism.

Is WWIII imminently around the corner that we must gear up and reallocate all available resources here in the U.S. that we must start burning our candles at both ends already? Or, are you privy to some sort of secret and highly classified For-Your-Eyes-Only knowledge that the rest of John Q. Public isn't?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
In fact, one of the main reasons why Germany lost the war was that they maintained an orchestrated policy of not employing 'Total War'.

They maintained the ideological standpoint that women were intended to breed children for 'The Fatherland', not get involved in war.

Then you are suggesting that Germany could not stay on a winning streak without enlisting women into becoming front-line soldiers. That this was somehow a bad tactical strategy. No, biting off more than you can chew, being a genocidal aggressor, and fighting wars on more fronts than you can possibly handle were poor leadership decisions.

Women (and children more indirectly) have always been actively involved in war efforts. To imply that this has ever been otherwise throughout the annals of history is totally absurd.
This discussion isn't about supporting war efforts or showing your patriotism and support for the military, or whether there are women soldiers serving in the military. It's about implementing war-preparedness to mobilize soldiers beyond a voluntary training capacity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Contrast that with Britain during WW1 where women made bombs through the clock, morning 'til night.

Who do you think ran our industrialized countries while the men were away fighting wars? During both WWI and WWII, women not only filled management positions, took on supervisory leadership roles, and filled the ranks of THE core work force, which they then had to relinquish once soldiers returned home from war. Not only did many of us originate from the post-war Baby Boom generation, but the highly idealized 1950's peacetime Household came into being, one where the men of this world supposedly keep their women & children - our families - safe from the ravages of war. This was the 20th Century version of the American Dream.

DreamLady

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 34

RE: women to register for the draft - 10/18/2015 9:53:44 AM

thompsonx

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Are we as a nation in such desperate straits? We have a fine reserve force of well-trained soldiers who are on call to serve their country around the clock, if need be.

I don't hink so. The u.s. military is not exactly the "cutting edge" that is claimed. While they may enjoy a technilogical advantage the boyz in the boots ain't all that good at what they do. For the most part they are poorly trained and not in good physical shape. Notice the numbers of n.g troops as opposed to regular army.

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Post #: 35

RE: women to register for the draft - 10/19/2015 12:07:08 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
Women currently don't have a draft eligibility, so they do not have to sign up for the draft, and they cannot compulsory be called to serve, but they can still voluntarily enlist.

Thanks Ishtar! This makes sense now!! But how do they decide who is draft eligible even with the men? This sounds like some sort of compulsory service against people's will but in a different form.

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Post #: 36

RE: women to register for the draft - 10/19/2015 12:09:54 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I can see your confusion.
Registering for the draft is quite different from compulsory service.
As pointed out nobody has been drafted since the 70's.
However males have to register for the draft in case there is one.
This is a move for "gender equality" motivated either by feminists thinking that it makes them "more equal" or anti-feminists wanting to make a point if women complain about it. It has nothing to do with there not being enough men, and it would have no affect on the size of the military.

Thanks! This is even clearer now. So all American men are currently on "draft". But women aren't. Okay. Interesting, and I will agree that it's not necessary unless the military are really short. But I would prefer to choose that, even men can voluntarily sign up for draft. They shouldn't make it compulsory for all men.

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Post #: 37

RE: women to register for the draft - 10/19/2015 12:39:46 AM

Greta75

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quote:

How many wome make a 100 k per year in singapore?
"Considering a career with the Civil Service in Singapore?

Civil servant are the lowest paid sector, unless they are ministers or MPs. But then again, we compare a Minister to a CEO or a top Lawyer or a top Surgeon salary, they are still underpaid. Nobody looks at civil service as market rate! Like seriously...... Some of these internet links are sooo inaccurate. Perhaps "market rate" as in, must pay higher than civil service as a bench mark. Infact civil service looks at private sector market rate and then pay slightly below that usually.

quote:

Do they have to pay for condoms for the boys?

You gotta choose something the equivalent of tampon. The last I check, sex is optional, but we women can only hope our period can be optional. I'd choose not to have them! They get a bar of soap. They are bald in the military so they can use that soap for their heads and body. We are more complicated since women in military don't have to shave bald, our skin are more delicate too! It would be maltreatment if we just get a bar of soap ha! There is a reason even facial wash are formulated different for men and women.

Also, it's so much more convenient for men to pee anywhere in the forests. We're probably gonna get our bums stung to hell every time we squat and pee in the bushes! But even the boys tell me, insect repellent is necessary on their bum before they do their thingy. Or it will be bad for them!

I once idiotically put military insect repellent on my face, and all the boys looked at me like! They were like, they only put it on their Number 4, it's toxic stuffs! Like OMFG! No wonder it stung so bad!

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 38

RE: women to register for the draft - 10/19/2015 12:41:46 AM

dreamlady

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[Are we as a nation in such desperate straits? We have a fine reserve force of well-trained soldiers who are on call to serve their country around the clock, if need be.]

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I don't hink so. The u.s. military is not exactly the "cutting edge" that is claimed. While they may enjoy a technilogical advantage the boyz in the boots ain't all that good at what they do. For the most part they are poorly trained and not in good physical shape. Notice the numbers of n.g troops as opposed to regular army.

I am genuinely curious what you are basing your assessment upon, whether it applies across the board to every branch of the Armed Forces, whether this is something that seasoned military upper ranks have expressed to you that they have observed (not just officers who might be further removed from hands-on [no pun!] contact with enlisted men & women as, say, a [gunnery] sergeant would be).

I've known a few National Guardsmen over the years, including a female co-worker who went on naval maneuvers in Portugal twice yearly, ones who completed tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they were a very dedicated and capable bunch.

DreamLady

Edit - swapped word

< Message edited by dreamlady -- 10/19/2015 12:49:49 AM >

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Post #: 39

RE: women to register for the draft - 10/19/2015 7:16:02 PM

MercTech

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: MercTech

In the early years of the U.S.; every male citizen from age 18 to 45 was considered subject to militia call up and was required to maintain weapons. The militia could be called up for up to 90 days. Militia duty extending past 90 days required an act of Congress if called up by federal authority or by state legislature if called up by order of a state governor. It was part of being a citizen.

Do we have any cites to give us an indication of how this actually worked?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Acts_of_1792

I first heard of the militia call ups reading Andrew Jackson's memoirs. He really lambasted "those barracks lawyers of a militia".

(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 40

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