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I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men want - 10/23/2015 11:51:56 AM   
Wanderling


Posts: 39
Joined: 10/14/2015
Status: offline 		I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men want (the whole enchilada vs just the spicy sauce)

I posted this in what turned out to be an advertisement for a professional set of Dominatrices, mostly as fun, since the thread had no merit on its own account.

Yet, I realized, maybe there was more to the story, so, I simply repeat what I had posted, in the hopes that the people here can flesh out my understanding of the problem with the mismatch of men and their dreams of Femdomme experiences.

My post was...............

If I'm to guess, [Warning! I usually guess wrong] I think the whole fEmdomme/fInDomme mismatch is a function of the mismatch between what men and women desire in sexual relationships.

The women want the whole enchilada, while the men [Warning! I am very often wrong!] seem to fixate on the chili pepper sauce alone. The spicy stuff. Not the mundane but deeper meaning beans and cheese relationship stuff.

So, what we often do [Warning! Many say I'm always wrong!] is go to the FinDomme for what turns out to be just the outside corn tortilla and the spicy chili pepper sauce, which is what we were after all the time.

Then, after a few of those ... as it slowly dawns on us how empty the corn tortilla with chili saice feels, emotionally, we begin to complain that the findomme is providing an empty femdomme experience.

Yet, [Warning: I don't think I have yet been right!] we created a demand for a product that was devoid of any possibility of satisfying in the long term in the first place!
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 12:00:51 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		I didn't understand the food analogy at all. Didn't have a clue what you were on about.

I think you need to understand Femdom and Findom differences because you seem to use both terms interchangeably and they aren't the same thing.

I couldn't answer your post because I was utterly confused and couldn't work out what you were really asking.

< Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 10/23/2015 12:30:35 PM >

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
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(in reply to Wanderling)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 12:38:19 PM   
Wanderling


Posts: 39
Joined: 10/14/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

I didn't understand the food analogy at all. Didn't have a clue what you were on about.

I think you need to understand Femdom and Findom differences because you seem to use both terms interchangeably and they aren't the same thing.

I couldn't answer your post because I was utterly confused and could work out what you were really asking.


Apologies.
I'm not really asking. I'm just musing. I'm confused. Yet I'm kind of clear in an uncertain way.
I guess I mixed in a veggie enchilada with a meat enchilada, which added to the confusion.

  • The Findom Femdom analogywas tied to the fact that I think we men create their own problems
    [Warning. Nobody appointed me speaker for all men, and I already said I'm confused!]
  • The spicy sauce enchilada example was that we men often want to PLAY while the women more often want RELATIONSHIPS.
    [Warning. I'm really only speaking for myself]

    I'll dispense with the warnings but I will just say that I only speak for myself and I will repeat I'm confused so, I reserve the right to retract or recant or apologize for anything I say, as I figure out more.

    But here it goes.

    I think that we men sometimes just want to play femdom     (I do) and because of that, we have trouble finding a real femdomme who wants to just play because she wants more. That's the part about men wanting just the tortilla (analagous to the sexy corset and garters on the woman) and the spicy sauce (the guy gets to prance naked in front of her and or worship her feminine toes and or get his balls crushed under her heels and or whatever he fancies as part of his kink).

    So what do we do?
    We gravitate to Findommes!
    We actually create a market for Findommes!
    Without us, they can't exist.

    The example was that we created a market for fast food get-fed-quick which consisted of just the outside covering of Femdomme (the tortilla chip) and us being naked and of service to a Findomme (the spicy sauce).

    Then we somehow seem to complain that it's an empty enchilada!
    Mind you, I haven't complained, but I see findomme threads all over here that seem to complain so that's what I'm going on.
    It's not the women complaining for the most part. It's the men complaining and associating it with hookers and then the findommes explaining and then it just goes round and round.

    It's like a guy who doesn't want to take the time or energy to go out to get a good enchilada, but who seeks only the tortilla outside and the spicy sauce inside, and this hollow remnant of a sexual relationship seems, somehow, hollow to him. The women who want to make money simply prey on his need and supply exactly what he seems to be asking for, which is an experience devoid of relationship but filled with the outside trappings of femdomme with little necessary spicy sauce as the catnip to keep their paying customers coming back.

    But, it's all a hollow enchilada.
    It's not the women's fault.
    it's the men's fault.
    [WARNING: Again I have to warn I am only speaking of me because I have never talked to another guy or woman about this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]
    It's all so very confusing. The mismatch. What I'm asking for. What I get. What women want. Which isn't what I want. It's all so confusing.

    (in reply to freedomdwarf1)
    • Profile   Post #: 3
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 12:40:43 PM   
    LuminousFire


    Posts: 50
    Joined: 10/19/2015
    Status: offline     		I want cake and muffins and cheap Chardonnay by the tanker.

    Your analogy even I did not understand and I asked the metaphysical cat department in my house and frankly they are up in cat paws with such malarkey and have declared a state of war on humanity right after a 23 hour power nap.

    findommes want cash - it is their way. They certainly do not want all the enchiladas and chiwawa and Chippewa
    Married men want chilli sauce rubbed on their junk.
    femdomme who does not require cash is a different kettle of Ornithorhynchus anatinus (is so a fish)

    Some people want it all or nothing at all like me. Others want part often as they are already spoken for

    can I have my cake now or not

    (in reply to freedomdwarf1)
    Profile   Post #: 4
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 12:44:11 PM   
    Wanderling


    Posts: 39
    Joined: 10/14/2015
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LuminousFire
    I want cake and muffins and cheap Chardonnay by the tanker.

    See? You want it all. The whole enchilada. And you deserve that. I won't dream of taking it away from you.
    But, I don't want the whole enchilada (I don't think). But I'm confused. Because just the spicy sauce is, somehow, unfulfilling without something akin to that cake and muffins and tanker of cheap Chardonnay that I envy that you have at your fingertips!
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LuminousFire
    Your analogy even I did not understand and I asked the metaphysical cat department in my house and frankly they are up in cat paws with such malarkey and have declared a state of war on humanity right after a 23 hour power nap.

    I think I'm even confused by my analogy!

    I guess it all boils down to I wanna play femdomme but women want more than that so I have to pay for findomme which seems so very shallow afterward because it's devoid of something. It's like asking for an enchilada with just the hotsauce and then feeling deprived because I got an enchilada with just the hotsauce.
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LuminousFire
    findommes want cash - it is their way. They certainly do not want all the enchiladas and chiwawa and Chippewa

    Yes. But.
    If men didn't create the demand for the findomme, the findomme wouldn't exist.
    So the men create the findomme.
    The findomme just satisfies the demand.
    Just as we Americans apparently demand junk food. The junk food companies are only too glad to give us overpriced overprocessed food devoid of any nutritional value.

    But I think femdommes are different. They are the whole enchilada.
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LuminousFire
    Married men want chilli sauce rubbed on their junk.

    Yes. No doubt about it.
    It's not noble in the least.

    Meanwhile, the more noble female femdomme side of the species is almost always seeking a FLR relationship, which is the whole enchilada, which is very satisfying, to them, as well it should be.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LuminousFire
    femdomme who does not require cash is a different kettle of Ornithorhynchus anatinus (is so a fish)

    Its now my turn to not understand the analogy!
    I don't think of Femdommes as "requiring cash".
    I think only of Findommes as requiring cash.

    Maybe [probably!] I completely misunderstand the terms, but Femdommes seem to want relationships. FLRs or something that they define as a FLR anyway.

    The Findomme just seem to want the cash.

    Otherwise, if no cash is involved, by definition, she'd simply be a Femdomme.
    At least that's how my black-and-white-simple-as-a-block-of-wood brain sees such things.

    [No wonder I'm confused.]
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LuminousFire
    Some people want it all or nothing at all like me. Others want part often as they are already spoken for

    The not confusing thing is that I don't want it all. I just want the spicy sauce.
    The confusing thing is that once I have just the spicy sauce, it somehow feels like I missed out on the whole enchilada.
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LuminousFire
    can I have my cake now or not

    Yes. You women are more noble than I, so, you can have your cake and enjoy the entire thing too!
    I just get to have the frosting I asked for, and then bemoan why I'm confused that the frosting doesn't at all taste like the cake should.


    < Message edited by Wanderling -- 10/23/2015 12:56:23 PM >

    (in reply to Wanderling)
    Profile   Post #: 5
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 12:54:21 PM   
    freedomdwarf1


    Posts: 6845
    Joined: 10/23/2012
    Status: offline     		<<<< is wondering what an enchilada is.
    Do you pick it? fry it? bake it? or eat it raw?
    Do you have to look after it and wait until it's an adult or do you kill it when it's young?

    And what's with the hot sauce?
    Is that a physically hot sauce or spicy-type 'hot' sauce??

    Hence my confusion to the food bit.

    The difference between femdom and findom is pretty obvious to most people.
    Femdom: being dominated by a female - whatever that entails and whatever you agree to.
    Findomme: a female that specifically dominates you financially.
    Obviously, to what extent you allow the type of domination to have is a very individualistic thing and no two dynamics are the same in every respect.

    I don't see what the confusion is and why the silly analogy to food.



    < Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 10/23/2015 12:55:36 PM >

    _____________________________

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
    George Orwell, 1903-1950


    (in reply to Wanderling)
    Profile   Post #: 6
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 12:55:50 PM   
    MissKatya


    Posts: 341
    Joined: 12/21/2007
    From: NYC
    Status: offline     		Now I want mexican food.

    _____________________________

    "The desire to inflict pain, that is all that is uppermost"-Albert Fish

    (in reply to Wanderling)
    Profile   Post #: 7
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 12:58:26 PM   
    mnottertail


    Posts: 60698
    Joined: 11/3/2004
    Status: offline     		But a Findomme can also be a Femdomme.

    But what I am gleaning here, from the discourse, is if you are one of those wormy, smarmy type of subbies (you know the ones....... ,,,, what kind of grease does mistress use ,,,, on her strapon) don't for all of fucks sake take her out to eat at a mexican joint.

    Or am I the only one?

    O.o

    _____________________________

    Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


    (in reply to freedomdwarf1)
    Profile   Post #: 8
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 1:05:52 PM   
    freedomdwarf1


    Posts: 6845
    Joined: 10/23/2012
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: mnottertail

    But a Findomme can also be a Femdomme.

    But what I am gleaning here, from the discourse, is if you are one of those wormy, smarmy type of subbies (you know the ones....... ,,,, what kind of grease does mistress use ,,,, on her strapon) don't for all of fucks sake take her out to eat at a mexican joint.

    Or am I the only one?

    O.o

    Very true Ron.
    But it's not one and the same because one is a subset of the other.
    You can be a femdomme without being a findomme but not the other way round.
    By definition a findomme is dominating (specifically on a fiscal level) so is also being a femdomme in one sense.

    And I gather an enchilada is some type of food.
    I thought it was a type of animal. lol.

    _____________________________

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
    George Orwell, 1903-1950


    (in reply to mnottertail)
    Profile   Post #: 9
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 1:06:00 PM   
    JVoV


    Posts: 3664
    Joined: 3/9/2015
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: mnottertail

    But a Findomme can also be a Femdomme.

    But what I am gleaning here, from the discourse, is if you are one of those wormy, smarmy type of subbies (you know the ones....... ,,,, what kind of grease does mistress use ,,,, on her strapon) don't for all of fucks sake take her out to eat at a mexican joint.

    Or am I the only one?

    O.o


    Unless you have a very specific Shartnado fetish, I'd avoid Mexican food. Or any sort of curry.

    (in reply to mnottertail)
    Profile   Post #: 10
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 1:11:05 PM   
    Wanderling


    Posts: 39
    Joined: 10/14/2015
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
    The difference between femdom and findom is pretty obvious to most people.
    Femdom: being dominated by a female - whatever that entails and whatever you agree to.
    Findomme: a female that specifically dominates you financially.

    I don't see what the confusion is and why the silly analogy to food.


    I guess the confusion is that I seem to have a different definition, which resembles yours above, but which isn't at all the same when it comes down to the precise ingredients of the resulting enchilada.

    On this I am not confused [I may be completely wrong though].
  • Femdom: A noble pursuit of a woman to have a primarily emotional RELATIONSHIP with a male that entails whatever She/he agrees to.
  • Findom: A financial pursuit of a woman to have a primarily fiduciary relationship with a male that entails whatever She/he agrees to.

    I don't see things that clearly though.
    I see them as a cause-and-effect domino-theory cascade of related events.
    I admit I am confused and I agree ahead of time that I am probably wrong, but here is how I see it play out with the enchilada example.

    [1]Noble female wants relationship [Femdomme, the whole enchilada]
    [2]Ignoble male wants playtime [Femdomme on his terms so to speak. Just the trappings of tortilla and spicy sauce]
    [3]They don't have anything in common, so....................
    [4]Persistant ignoble male finds a woman he pays to Femdomme him (I call this Findomme but you have a completely different definition which is that findomming is itself a valid kink so here is where we speak two different languages neither of which is wrong or right. To me a findomme is just a professional femdomme but to you it's not at all that - which I won't argue except to say that PAYING for Femdomme (whatever we call it) turns out to be shallow in the end.
    [5]Given that paying for femdomme turns out to be shallow, ignoble male is unhappy (and nobody is surprised except the ignoble male himself).

    All he asked for was the tortilla with spicy sauce and that's exactly what he got and he was unhappy and confused why he's so unhappy.
    Meanwhile, the noble femdomme is happy eating her cake and tanker of Chardonnay because she went for the whole relationship enchilada and gets to eat it too!

    She's happy.
    He's not.
    He's just confused.

    (in reply to freedomdwarf1)
    • Profile   Post #: 11
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 1:14:22 PM   
    freedomdwarf1


    Posts: 6845
    Joined: 10/23/2012
    Status: offline     		Being a femdom doesn't necessarily imply any emotional attachment.

    Maybe that's where your confusion lies - a misplaced belief that emotion is part of the femdomme deal.

    _____________________________

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
    George Orwell, 1903-1950


    (in reply to Wanderling)
    Profile   Post #: 12
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 1:20:04 PM   
    Wanderling


    Posts: 39
    Joined: 10/14/2015
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: mnottertail
    But a Findomme can also be a Femdomme.

    I'm sure my definitions are wrong, so, I defer to you on this.
    To me, a femdomme is all that exists.
    A findomme, to me, is just a femdomme who gets paid to femdomme [which I do realize isn't what anyone said but me!].

    To you, a findomme is a valid kink in and of itself, which I'll wager is a fine thing.

    It's just now how I see it, but findomme is not my kink, so, maybe that's why I don't see it the way you see it.
    It makes neither of us right or wrong. We just have a mismatch of goals I guess.
    So, I really should use a DIFFERENT word for what I think a femdomme who gets paid is.

    What would you call what am trying to describe, which is a femdomme who gets paid to femdomme a man who just wants to PLAY and who doesn't want the relationship part of the enchilada?

    [I will call it that - whatever you want to call it - because my confused musings were never what the difference is between findomme and femdomme even if I am confused about what the differences are.]

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: mnottertail
    But what I am gleaning here, from the discourse, is if you are one of those wormy, smarmy type of subbies (you know the ones....... ,,,, what kind of grease does mistress use ,,,, on her strapon) don't for all of fucks sake take her out to eat at a mexican joint.

    Or am I the only one?


    You are 100% on the mark.
    I am the ignoble one.
    I just want to play.
    No relationship needed, nor desired.
    Just play.

    Do you see the mismatch?
    You noble ones want more. You want the whole enchilada.

    I don't want the whole enchilada.
    I just want to play in the spicy hot sauce.

    But, the musings are what occur AFTERWARD.
    You see, afterward, after I play, it all seemed so shallow.
    So devoid of substance.
    So devoid of the complete experience.

    Hence the confusions.
    I asked for play. I got play. And then, I'm confused why it feels so shallow.


    (in reply to mnottertail)
    Profile   Post #: 13
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 1:21:16 PM   
    Wanderling


    Posts: 39
    Joined: 10/14/2015
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

    Being a femdom doesn't necessarily imply any emotional attachment.

    Maybe that's where your confusion lies - a misplaced belief that emotion is part of the femdomme deal.


    ???????????????????????????????????
    It's not?

    Isnt' femdomme all about FLR?
    Or am I so thoroughly confused that I should just shut up because my ignorance is confusing even me?

    (in reply to freedomdwarf1)
    Profile   Post #: 14
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 1:23:15 PM   
    freedomdwarf1


    Posts: 6845
    Joined: 10/23/2012
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wanderling


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

    Being a femdom doesn't necessarily imply any emotional attachment.

    Maybe that's where your confusion lies - a misplaced belief that emotion is part of the femdomme deal.


    ???????????????????????????????????
    It's not?

    Isnt' femdomme all about FLR?
    Or am I so thoroughly confused that I should just shut up because my ignorance is confusing even me?


    FLR is Female Lead Relationship.
    That doesn't necessarily translate to Femdomme - wich means dominated by a female.
    Very different animals.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wanderling

    So, I really should use a DIFFERENT word for what I think a femdomme who gets paid is.

    What would you call what am trying to describe, which is a femdomme who gets paid to femdomme a man who just wants to PLAY and who doesn't want the relationship part of the enchilada?

    Very simple - it's called a prostitute.


    < Message edited by freedomdwarf1 -- 10/23/2015 1:24:03 PM >

    _____________________________

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
    George Orwell, 1903-1950


    (in reply to Wanderling)
    Profile   Post #: 15
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 1:24:56 PM   
    Wanderling


    Posts: 39
    Joined: 10/14/2015
    Status: offline     		I have to pick up the kids from school, and the neighbor's kids because I take them for her because she's working during the day and I work at night. So, I won't be back for a few hours. But I do appreciate the noble dialog.

    (in reply to Wanderling)
    Profile   Post #: 16
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 1:25:42 PM   
    BitaTruble


    Posts: 9779
    Joined: 1/12/2006
    From: Texas
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wanderling


    I asked for play. I got play. And then, I'm confused why it feels so shallow.



    That what happens when you chop down a tree to get a toothpick. You miss out on the warmth of fire you can get from burning what you've left on the ground.. or the beauty that can be crafted from left over branches in the form of a chair or table. You don't get the fruit from the tree or to watch the leaves change their color.

    Keep chopping down trees to get toothpicks if that's your desire.. just make sure you don't cut your own leg off in the process cuz.. that happens.




    _____________________________

    "Oh, so it's just like
    Rock, paper, scissors."

    He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


    (in reply to Wanderling)
    Profile   Post #: 17
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 5:33:40 PM   
    DesFIP


    Posts: 25191
    Joined: 11/25/2007
    From: Apple County NY
    Status: offline     		Fin dommes are women who take a man's power from him by taking what we now view as power - money.

    However, your reference to the spicy stuff is not a reference to financial domination but to pro topping, where kink is performed in exchange for money.

    If you would replace fin with pro, the thread might make more sense.

    Some women want to do financial domination, they don't want to feel that they are catering to a client's fetishes, they want pure power.
    Some want pro domming. They enjoy certain kinks and will do those in exchange for money to a man who is also solely interested in exploring his kinks.
    Some want a Female Led Relationship, where she decides where to go for dinner and when to buy new tires.

    There's room for all.

    But if all you want is kink, then you need a pro. Because a woman wanting a full relationship will not be compatible with you.

    Figure out what you want and look for someone who wants the same.

    _____________________________

    Slave to laundry

    Cynical and proud of it!


    (in reply to BitaTruble)
    Profile   Post #: 18
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/23/2015 8:37:29 PM   
    LookieNoNookie


    Posts: 12216
    Joined: 8/9/2008
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Wanderling

    I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men want (the whole enchilada vs just the spicy sauce)

    I posted this in what turned out to be an advertisement for a professional set of Dominatrices, mostly as fun, since the thread had no merit on its own account.

    Yet, I realized, maybe there was more to the story, so, I simply repeat what I had posted, in the hopes that the people here can flesh out my understanding of the problem with the mismatch of men and their dreams of Femdomme experiences.

    My post was...............

    If I'm to guess, [Warning! I usually guess wrong] I think the whole fEmdomme/fInDomme mismatch is a function of the mismatch between what men and women desire in sexual relationships.

    The women want the whole enchilada, while the men [Warning! I am very often wrong!] seem to fixate on the chili pepper sauce alone. The spicy stuff. Not the mundane but deeper meaning beans and cheese relationship stuff.

    So, what we often do [Warning! Many say I'm always wrong!] is go to the FinDomme for what turns out to be just the outside corn tortilla and the spicy chili pepper sauce, which is what we were after all the time.

    Then, after a few of those ... as it slowly dawns on us how empty the corn tortilla with chili saice feels, emotionally, we begin to complain that the findomme is providing an empty femdomme experience.

    Yet, [Warning: I don't think I have yet been right!] we created a demand for a product that was devoid of any possibility of satisfying in the long term in the first place!


    (I have absolutely no concept of what you attempted to say)

    (in reply to Wanderling)
    Profile   Post #: 19
    RE: I am sensing a mismatch between what women and men ... - 10/24/2015 1:01:18 AM   
    Wanderling


    Posts: 39
    Joined: 10/14/2015
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DesFIP
    But if all you want is kink, then you need a pro. Because a woman wanting a full relationship will not be compatible with you.


    You said it better than I could.
    The whole pro thing is, really, a non starter, because it sucks. It's just totally missing everything.
    But, the whole relationship thing also sucks. It's too much.

    That's why I sense there is a mismatch in needs.

    (in reply to DesFIP)
    Profile   Post #: 20
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