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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 8:29:40 PM   
ifmaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

dc if people were spying I could see where they would need to be regulated more closely... My drone will soon be registered by law and I hope we end up with people needing to be tested and licensed in order to fly them.

They are not toys... they can be dangerous... but not in eavesdropping on teen girls. The drone I have can reach an altitude of over 20,000 feet... It can be controlled through FPV from over a mile and a half away... and even further with cheap added equipment. It only weighs 3 pounds but capable of speeds up to 35 mph with props that will cut deep... It could easily take down a plane or kill in a crash...but it can't spy on teen girls.

It's 20 mm 94 degree of view camera would have to be less than 25 feet for detail...and at that altitude the noise would warn anyone of its approach.

Butch


Which drone do you have, out of curiosity? Do you encounter many paranoid people when flying it?

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/28/2015 11:16:12 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The home owner does not own the space above his property...all he has is the right to develop it.... but he has to be using it... Not the case here... he has had no claim to space above his home.

Now if he could prove that the intent of the drone operator was to spy on his daughter then he could have reason to call the police...not shoot it down.

Butch

United States v. Causby, the U.S. Supreme Court declared the navigable airspace to be "a public highway" and within the public domain. At the same time, the law, and the Supreme Court, recognized that a landowner had property rights in the lower reaches of the airspace above their property. The law, in balancing the public interest in using the airspace for air navigation against the landowner's rights, declared that a landowner controls use of the airspace above their property in connection with their uninterrupted use and enjoyment of the underlying land. In other words, a person's real property ownership includes a reasonable amount of the private airspace above the property in order to prevent nuisance. A landowner may make any legitimate use of their property that they want, even if it interferes with aircraft overflying the land."

HERE

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(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 4:59:26 AM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

What happens when that drone, armed, with better programming to operate on its own (more or less) for hours at a time gets attacked? Does it have a right, as an extension of its owner, to 'stand its ground'?


That one really cracked me up. Keep it up. At least I can get a good laugh.

quote:

ORIGINAL:


The easiest way to solve that is to outlaw drones with firearms or weapon systems except by special permit.


Hmmmmm.........interesting thought, a firearm on a drone......Maybe if they start distributing a powerful enough consumer version I can hunt deer while I'm sitting in my hot tub sippin margaritas. But don't sweat it joe. I'm sure there is going to be some whack job out there who is going to try dropping a bomb on a bunch of people with one. I'm not sure what kind of laws or regulations are going to stop that sort of thing. I'm sure you can come up with a bright idea.

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(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 8:39:00 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		There is no in "other words" this right only exists if the air space is in use... otherwise you have a right of ownership of the space above your home if say you are to build a second or third story... A property owner that decide to build a 1,500 foot skyscraper also has property rights... but this ends their extent of ownership... There is absolute freedom of passage.

But there is a difference if the purpose of the flight over your property can be reasonably proven to be other than passage. What is extraordinary about this ruling is there was irrefutable evidence in telemetry that proved the aircraft was not at 10 feet of elevation but moving at the 193 feet.

The technology is remarkable on these aircraft... I could show you the plot of the actual flight of my aircraft over a satellite map that shows altitude... speed..and camera operation at ANY point along the flight route. This information is continuous and saved in two locations... One on the bird and the other in the control devices.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/29/2015 9:30:17 AM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 8:43:51 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		ifmaz I have two... an Inspire 1 and a Phantom 3 both from DJI... There is plenty of public interest when I fly but all positive... Most just question its capabilities and cost and want to know how hard it is to fly... I have had NO paranoid reactions yet. But then again I do not fly low over private property... I keep the bird in line of sight and follow all federal state and local laws in my region.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 9:36:46 AM   
JVoV


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Status: offline 		If I can shoot it, the damn thing was flying too low.

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 11:36:37 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		You could say that about helicopters and aircraft... Do you plan on shooting them as well?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 12:17:37 PM   
JVoV


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You could say that about helicopters and aircraft... Do you plan on shooting them as well?

Butch


Don't be dumb. Drones don't carry passengers.

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 12:38:48 PM   
ifmaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

If I can shoot it, the damn thing was flying too low.


Wouldn't that depend on one's optics and chosen caliber? ;)

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 12:48:54 PM   
JVoV


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Status: offline 		Well, I'd look silly chasing it with a butterfly net.

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 1:17:56 PM   
ifmaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

ifmaz I have two... an Inspire 1 and a Phantom 3 both from DJI... There is plenty of public interest when I fly but all positive... Most just question its capabilities and cost and want to know how hard it is to fly... I have had NO paranoid reactions yet. But then again I do not fly low over private property... I keep the bird in line of sight and follow all federal state and local laws in my region.

Butch


How difficult are they to fly?

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 1:38:22 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		It depends on how you decide to fly them. In one mode GPS is enabled which means if you let go of the controls the Aircraft will stop and hover... so if you get confused you just take your hands off the controls it will brake right where it is at... then it is easy to figure out what to do... BUT... If you can't you just press a button on the controller and the aircraft will return automatically at a preset altitude to its take off point and land...by itself. If for whatever reason the aircraft looses contact with the controller for 3 seconds it will again automatically fly to its takeoff point or a designated home point.

The controls are simple... two sticks... on the left stick pushing forward is up... pulling back is down... pushing left rotates left... pushing right rotates right. On the right stick pushing forward moves the aircraft forward... the more travel the faster it moves... Pulling back moves the aircraft back. Pushing the lever left or right moves the bird left or right. That is all there is to it.

There are two other mode...Atti this is manual mode which means there is no GPS and when you move the controls you must move them in the opposite direction to stop the movement... It is harder to control because with GPS it holds position in the wind... but in Atti mode the wind can take your aircraft away... you must counter the wind movement with the controls.

The last mode is advanced intelligent orientation, or F mode, and with this you can set up automatic routes with way points and also perform point of interest maneuvers and home point orientation.. easy to do but too complicated to explain here.

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/29/2015 2:22:06 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ifmaz)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 3:05:33 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Thanks Joe..my hobby

lol... it makes a good blower... loud though... hard to sneak up on sunbathing girls i would think.

Butch


That's what zoom cameras are for.....


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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 4:38:09 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The home owner does not own the space above his property

You are incorrect.

I spent well over a decade selling real estate.
You control the air space over your property subject to anything the FAA says.

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Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 4:54:35 PM   
MercTech


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You could say that about helicopters and aircraft... Do you plan on shooting them as well?

Butch


One of the big problems with drone use that has to be addressed is drone operators and flight rules.

A big part of "ground school" when training for a pilot's license is training on the rules about where, how low, and under what conditions you can fly. You don't hover a manned helicopter over a residential area without having an approved flight plan or be emergency services on a response mission. (life flight, police search helicopters, etc.)

As it stands right now; you have to have a licensed pilot trained in flight regulations to operate a drone for commercial purposes. "Hobby Aircraft", like operating your own drone for fun, are barred from flying out of visual contact with the operator and are barred from flying over stadiums and areas where people congregate. But, there is no training requirement for hobby aircraft that meat the low size and payload requirement for a hobby aircraft. A trained pilot would have known that flying low near or over a neighbor's property is not allowed.

I have a suspicion that when it all shakes out; even small hobby drones will end up having ID numbers and a training requirement to operate in other than on your own rural property.

I've been kicking around the idea of using drones for a certain type of survey that currently requires boots on the ground. In checking the laws; I'm holding off as what I want to do would exceed the payload limit for hobby aircraft. I don't want to make a prototype that could not legally be flown.

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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 5:37:37 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I hope so...

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 5:47:32 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Granted it is thorny with state and local governments claiming they have the right to regulate... But the FAA says only they have the right... and below is what they say...

The FAA says the advent of drones has extended “navigable airspace”—and thus the FAA’s authority—down to the ground. As long as private drones don’t endanger people, the agency says, they can legally hover just above private property in the U.S. The agency added that many states and cities have “noise and nuisance” laws they can use to prosecute drone users who fly over private property.


The FAA’s stance effectively means “all public airspace down to the ground is considered a public highway for unmanned aircraft, and any private investigator or paparazzi can fly there,” he said. “It’s the commercialization of everywhere. Everywhere is now open for commercial airspace and there’s no notion of private property anymore except for the grass itself.”

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 6:13:02 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Here is another link that may help... the FAA claims in this FAQ that they have sole authority to regulate all air space. There rules for hobby drones are quite clear with specific rules...none prohibit flight over private property.

And here they are...

Fly below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles
Keep the aircraft within visual line of sight at all times
Remain well clear of and do not interfere with manned aircraft operations
Don't fly within 5 miles of an airport unless you contact the airport and control tower before flying
Don't fly near people or stadiums
Don't fly an aircraft that weighs more than 55 lbs
Don't be careless or reckless with your unmanned aircraft – you could be fined for endangering people or other aircraft

BUT

I think things will change in the future.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/29/2015 6:17:19 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 8:59:31 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		"I'm surprised the judge made this ruling. Since isn't it up to the guy whom shot down the drone to prove the pilot of the drone was taking pictures (thereby creating justification to use a firearm)?"

Trespassing, ever hear of it. He could have shot a punk. He could have shot anyone but a cop, fireman or mailman. This is a mechanical device. Hell if you park a car on my property I betcha I get away with breaking all the windows. The olman used to shoot out the radiator when that happened. A buddy of mine used to slash the tires.

Too fucking bad. If it passes my property line it is fair game.

Y'know Amazon is working toward a drone based delivery system. I think that is going to cause a hell of alot of problems.

Shit, you can get your own drones and have drone wars. Now there's a sport for the 21st century.

T^T

(in reply to joether)
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RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 10/29/2015 11:08:14 PM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The home owner does not own the space above his property

You are incorrect.

I spent well over a decade selling real estate.
You control the air space over your property subject to anything the FAA says.

What kdsub doesn't understand for example, is that even commercial aircraft can be banned form flying over residential areas as none from or to Dulles airport could fly over the surrounding communities. I too was 10 years in real estate there and know the air rights.

_____________________________

You can be a murderous tyrant and the world will remember you fondly but fuck one horse and you will be a horse fucker for all eternity. Catherine the Great

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
J K Galbraith

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 40
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