Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is...


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 [5]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 11/1/2015 9:32:40 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Like I said... send an email... you can check it out... and again we are talking about the Phantom 3... In its class it has the highest resolution....

No it is not... it was the accusation that the drone was spying on his daughter at an elevation of 10 feet or so and that justified invasion of privacy..The point I am making from the very beginning is there was verifiable proof for or against that accusation in the FPV log... The pilot says he was never lower than 193 feet and was moving at cruising speed. He has the log... as I showed in the example... that would show exactly the elevation and speed throughout the flight along with actual through the camera video up until it was shot down.... The fact that the judge refused to see it says to me this could be a political judgement... Otherwise I cannot understand why he would not want to look at proof. At 193 feet at speed there is no way he could be spying with that camera... but he could at 10 feet...the log would show who was telling the truth.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/1/2015 9:34:56 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 11/1/2015 9:35:34 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yep...except quad copters are not prohibited from flying over private property...

As I said, the current case may have been poorly decided. Nevertheless, the broader question remains. It is often a struggle to decide whether and how to apply existing laws to new technologies, but I would venture to predict that sooner or later new regulations will be forthcoming to address the issues.

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 11/1/2015 9:41:57 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 11/1/2015 9:41:49 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
As I have said over and over in this thread... I personally welcome them... if this new technology is not regulated and drones continue interfering in emergency procedures or flying near airports they will be outlawed. I think drones of a certain capability should be licensed and training required.

Worrying about spying on teen girls is ridiculous... there are $19.99 quads with cameras out there that could spy on a teen girl and they will never be regulated... Why spend $1,500 or more to do the same?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 11/1/2015 9:53:32 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

Well great. Then let's veer wildly off topic for a moment, if you can answer the question. A stable platform only requires three propellers. Why do seemingly all of these things have four? Any idea?

K.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 11/1/2015 11:26:38 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

A person I know, very well, is working on a piece of equipment to de-activate the drones (I'm guessing it's as simple as a scanner and radio interference). It will be marketed for a very reasonable price and it's certainly safer than firing a weapon into the air (What goes up will, eventually, come down).

One of his main thrusts is he is a HUGE supporter of drones for private ownership/use (I'm guessing the USPS, UPS, and FedEx have some differing views), but he also knows of the potential for abuse. So, he wants his equipment to only interfere with drones that are hovering or lingering somewhere they're not wanted/expected.

I think his ideas and viewpoints are sound. I have no issue with someone flying their drone over my house when en route, but hovering would bother me, quite a bit. It just feels ... creepy.



Michael


< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 11/1/2015 11:27:17 PM >


_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 11/1/2015 11:45:35 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline
He sounds like the guy who invented dynamite DS............wasn't that supposed to only be used for peaceful purposes ( mining etc) ? I believe he even got a prize for it. I wish him luck but I hate to think what others will make of his brainchild.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 11/2/2015 7:30:29 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
lol... no engineer but I would say there are two main reasons... The first would be control... four would be optimal. The second would just be power... more lift and stability... remember this is a camera platform. Four points of balanced power and control it seems to me would be a lot more stable when hovering in strong winds for instance than three points...What do you think?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 11/2/2015 2:03:59 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
You want a rational, intelligent, an educated answer? Or the conservative/paranoid answer?


youre a loathsome embarrassing partisan hack and what I would want, for once, on anything, is a straight up answer without some lame attempt to besmirch "rational, intelligent, an educated" people just because they are conservative and happen to disagree with you.



Yea, I want to win the lottery.

anyone else have any impossible dreams?


Conservatives and libertarians growing enough of a brain to be of use to America. Or becoming educated enough not to be ignorant when discussing advance concepts that are currently well above their mental capacity right now.

I find it intriguing that you make this post about intelligence of conservatives and libertarians when you are apparently quite ignorant of sentence structure and punctuation.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 11/2/2015 2:09:47 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

He sounds like the guy who invented dynamite DS............wasn't that supposed to only be used for peaceful purposes ( mining etc) ? I believe he even got a prize for it. I wish him luck but I hate to think what others will make of his brainchild.


No, he put a large portion of the profits into a fund to establish the prize named after him, the Nobel.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 11/2/2015 2:10:12 PM >


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Dvr22999874)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 2/7/2016 7:54:22 AM   
fsted2a


Posts: 1
Joined: 2/7/2016
Status: offline
Not knowing what that drone's capabilities were, the homeowner probably felt the threat to his daughter was worth the consequences. In many jurisdictions, including mine, if a person has a privacy fence on their property, such as the one in this case, you have to get written permission to take a photo or video or use a telescope or binoculars to look at, the part inside the fence. The town in which this took place should start establishing statutes to govern the use of drones and other unmanned areal vehicles until the feds start getting their act together. The FAA should have established a "hard deck" minimum altitude when the drones started becoming cheap and publicly available. IMHO, the drone operator was trespassing by proxy with his drone. Just because it isn't physically in contact with the dirt doesn't mean the drone operator isn't trespassing. The FAA does, however, prohibit non-federal government operation of a drone that close to an airport. In any case, the drone operator was in the wrong. I have a full auto paintball gun, and I would have lit him up when he came to claim his drone, and pressed charges for carnal knowledge of a minor, in case he would have to register as a sex offender.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 2/7/2016 11:39:29 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
FR

The whole problem is that the gubblemint once again simply snatched up peoples rights without a vote. They simply take what they want in the name of the public supported by feudal law.

I have said this many times and not surprisingly only got sneers and jibes that we live in and america is a feudal society!

So here is the skinny, hint: The STATE owns the soil. (not you)


"whoever owns the soil, it is theirs up to Heaven and down to Hell."


Do You Own The Space Above Your House?
submit to reddit
Matt Soniak
filed under: Big Questions
Like us on Facebook

Cuius est solum, eius est usque ad coelum et ad inferos means "whoever owns the soil, it is theirs up to Heaven and down to Hell." This property right principle asserts that a person who owns a particular piece of land owns everything directly above and below that piece of land, no matter the distance, and can prosecute trespassers who violate their border on the surface, underground and in the sky. But has that held up in court over the years?

Despite the Latin phrasing, the principle was not a part of classical Roman law, and is usually attributed to the 13th-century Italian scholar Accursius. It made its way to England and was first used in the English-speaking world by Sir Edward Coke, an Elizabethan-era lawyer/judge/politician. It gained wider popularity in Commentaries on the Laws of England (1766), a treatise by judge and jurist William Blackstone.

Commentaries was highly regarded as a leading work on the development of English law and was influential in the development of the American legal system. It was said that "no other book except the Bible has played so great a role" in shaping American institutions, and many of Blackstone's ideas, including Cuius est solum... were quickly adopted and repeated by American courts and legal scholars.

Beginning with the 1797 decision in State v. David (Mr. David was indicted in Delaware for stealing two barrels of herrings after the barrels were found buried on his land) and continuing for the next hundred years, the American legal system maintained that landowners' rights extend over a tract of space that stretches from the center of the earth out into the atmosphere. Sometimes this space is described as a straight column with dimensions that match the property's surface-level boundary lines. The column sometimes began at a theoretical point at the very center of the earth, continues through the surface of the earth and upward into the sky. Other times, it was described as being shaped like an inverted pyramid. The tip is at the center of the earth and the space widens to meet the property's surface boundary lines.

The 150 Most Important Dead Chickens in Legal History

The doctrine worked well enough in the U.S. for a little more than a century, but in 1903 the Wright brothers shook things up when they got their powered Wright Flyer I airborne. From there, air travel expanded quickly and by the late 1930s, commercial airlines were carrying mail and passengers across the country.

Those magnificent men in their flying machines, of course, were violating countless borders as they crisscrossed the U.S., and the property owners began to sue the trespassing airline companies. Having to get permission from, or pay a settlement out to, anyone whose house they wanted to fly over would have caused major headaches for the airlines, the courts and federal regulators, and the doctrine began to fall out of favor.

The courts turned on their beloved Blackstone’s idea and began to regularly reject the ad coelum approach to airspace rights. Instead, they interpreted the maxim as giving property owners rights to the sky “within the range of actual occupation,” and use of airspace “to such an extent as [they are] able.” Congress, meanwhile, passed the Air Commerce Act in 1926, and gave the government jurisdiction over “navigable air space,” or the sky above “minimum safe altitudes of flight” as determined by the federal government.

In 1946, the United States Supreme Court heard United States v. Causby. Their decision in the case proved to be the final nail in the ad coelum doctrine's coffin and established new common law to replace the generally-accepted-but-made-up rule.

Causby owned 2.8 acres of farmland near Greensboro, North Carolina. During World War II, the U.S. government started using a nearby airport for military aircraft and fighter planes began flying over Causby's property at altitudes low enough to blow the leaves off the tops of Causby's trees. The noise from the flyovers scared Causby's chickens so much that they would panic, run into walls and kill themselves. Some 150 chickens died like this in a small span of time and Causby was forced to give up chicken farming entirely. He sued the government, claiming that their trespassing left his property commercially worthless and that his land had, in effect, been taken from him.

Now if that were a private company the company would be forced out of business under nuisance control laws


The Supreme Court ruled the air was a "public highway" and rejected Causby's claim that his airspace had been taken from him. Justice William O. Douglas wrote, in his opinion for the majority, that the cuius est solum, eius est usque ad coelum et ad inferos doctrine and the idea that "ownership of the land extended to the periphery of the universe...has no place in the modern world. To recognize such private claims to the airspace would clog these highways, seriously interfere with their control and development in the public interest, and transfer into private ownership that to which only the public has a just claim."

Douglas did, however, concede that "if the landowner is to have full enjoyment of the land, he must have exclusive control of the immediate reaches of the enveloping atmosphere." He concluded that "flights so low and so frequent as to be a direct and immediate interference with the enjoyment and use of the land" did constitute a taking of the land and left it to the lower court to figure out how Causby should be rewarded.
What Lies Beneath

While the ad coelum part of the doctrine fizzled pretty quickly with the birth of air travel, the ad inferos part soldiers on in some cases, if only because subsurface property rights are still being figured out. Without an underground equivalent to Causby, the courts have yet to establish law that addresses subsurface rights and the legislation that some states have adopted is vague enough that some courts will still uphold the ad inferos doctrine, while others regard it as nonsense.

A look at decisions in subsurface ownership disputes reveals that the courts tend to side with the surface property owner if the case involves the near subsurface (disputes about tree roots or other intrusions within 100 feet or so of the surface), and hundreds of them have cited ad inferos in their decisions. Cases involving disputes a few hundred feet below the surface, though, are generally less likely to go in the landowner's favor or bring up the ad inferos doctrine.

Complicating matters are the number of federal, state, and local statues regarding particular uses of subsurface areas. In many cases, if oil, natural gas, hard rock minerals, objects embedded in the soil or waste disposal are involved, these statutes usually supersede traditional property rights.


The Supreme Court ruled the air was a "public highway"

By no authority outside feudal law they simply take away everyones property rights granting full jurisdiction to the state upon which satellites can and are used to spy on everyone with impunity.

Did they ask for a vote? From the people? Fuck no! Why the hell would anyone want to vote on the removal of their property rights in a 'democracy'?




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 2/7/2016 12:55:14 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
For once RO, a good post.

But if The Supreme Court ruled the air was a "public highway", why can't I jump in my microlight and just fly where I want to?
Why can't I fly my drone near an airport? Or near a military base?

Further to your points about subsurface ownership, what about fracking??
What if an oil/gas company decide to drill 3 miles under your property and they cause sinkholes or contaminate the water table or the vibrations cause your cattle to become nervous and flighty to the point they are harming themselves or stop feeding or calving?
Can you sue them? Or do you have to somehow prove negligence?
Where does your subsurface ownership end and it become public property?
And if it is public property, why can't you lay claim to it and stop the drilling in just the same way the utility companies claim their right to drill?
And besides fracking, what if a rare mineral is found 3 miles under your property? Or 2 miles? Or a mile?
Can you claim the ownership rights to it? Can you stop a mining company from digging it?
Where do you draw the line???

It does seem that 'the public' are being shafted when it comes to some of these things.
And in that regard, we aren't any different to you lot over the pond.


_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 2/7/2016 1:36:51 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

193 feet is not low... right now I have legal permission to fly my aircraft in and over my city... in and over state parks...all it takes is a phone call. Flying over residential areas is not against the law unless there is a group of people.

In fact i was asked to take the picture below of our City Hall... there were people inside. Don't get me wrong i want more regulation... unlike the gun nuts I realize there is abuse of these devices... but this incident is wrong.

Butch





That is an AMAZING beautiful picture butch - are you a photographer??

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 2/7/2016 2:08:19 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Thanks Phydeaux

As a side job I guess you could say I try to be one... but more hobby than job... I've excellent equipment...now if i could only figure out how to use it.

Butch



_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... - 2/7/2016 2:47:05 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

For once RO, a good post.

But if The Supreme Court ruled the air was a "public highway", why can't I jump in my microlight and just fly where I want to?
Why can't I fly my drone near an airport? Or near a military base?

Further to your points about subsurface ownership, what about fracking??
What if an oil/gas company decide to drill 3 miles under your property and they cause sinkholes or contaminate the water table or the vibrations cause your cattle to become nervous and flighty to the point they are harming themselves or stop feeding or calving?
Can you sue them? Or do you have to somehow prove negligence?
Where does your subsurface ownership end and it become public property?
And if it is public property, why can't you lay claim to it and stop the drilling in just the same way the utility companies claim their right to drill?
And besides fracking, what if a rare mineral is found 3 miles under your property? Or 2 miles? Or a mile?
Can you claim the ownership rights to it? Can you stop a mining company from digging it?
Where do you draw the line???

It does seem that 'the public' are being shafted when it comes to some of these things.
And in that regard, we aren't any different to you lot over the pond.




property ownership is an inverse cone shape that gets increasingly wider as you go higher and comes to a point at the very center of the earth. the rest of what you mention there are other ways to handle those matters.

the point I am making is that it is the gubblemints duty to protect rights not steal them. I'd be happy to vote for airspace to be a public highway provided adequate property and privacy rights were respected.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 95
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 [5]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Kentucky Drone Shooter... and the verdict is... Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 [5]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094