RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest!

RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 7:15:09 PM)
Let's remove the ACA, have a national economic recession or depression for a few years, and see how well those firearms 'facts' of yours hold up? Do you realize that this is an admission that sociological factors, and not guns, cause crime spikes.

BamaD -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 7:18:35 PM)
And in the 19 years since? Yeah, homicides with firearms shot downward and stayed that way. Why is that? What you and other gunaphobs can't understand is he is talking about crime rate, not just crime rates with firearms, and that replacing a murder by gun with a murder by knife is not an improvement.

BamaD -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 7:23:20 PM)
That would be Chicago. Where do the grand majority of firearms originate in Chicago's criminal scenes? From OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS. Imagine that! So if the area was far wider, say, a large state area, the amount if firearms involved in the city might be reduced. Why don't those other cities have the same crime rate or higher than Chicago, after all if the ease of getting a gun there causes crime 50 miles away shouldn't it cause the same increase in those places?

BamaD -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 7:28:01 PM)
FR Joe two more points A We have the data from real life events which prove you are wrong. Setting up paramiters to make you look right won't change that and every simulation done so far doeas exactly that. B Posting walls neither makes you look smarter nor increases the validity of what you say.

joether -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 7:31:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer For one mad, surreal moment last night, I thought this forum might get through a week without someone starting a new gun thread. I would not have if ALL the gun threads were anything OTHER than gunz bad, begging for your life good threads. You know what they say happens when you bring 'begging' to a 'gun fight' LOL What I posted above are only the incidents where thugs wound up dead and hit the news. Most never get reported because simply brandishing a weapon will scare off most thugs except for the rambo crowd. My experiance 4 incidents, all on my property (I live in a bad part of town). Result, upon touching my firearm, 4 would-be thugs running away. Number of police reports 0. 1 incident before those my glasses were fogged over and I couldn't see till too late to pull my weapon and take the safety off. Result I got mugged. Police reports 1, police effectiveness 0. You justify your need to have a firearm by living in a bad part of town. You could always move.... I understand why your in that bad part of town. You told me once. I'm not going to say it here. I understand why your in that bad part of town. Yet, to state more, would be revealing things to those that do not understand your circumstances. Its tough to do what I am stating as an option given that circumstance your in. But to publish these moments of defense, is just using the situation for your political advantage. If you had NO CHOICE but to live in that particular area; yes, you would have a valid and good point. But as I stated, you choose to live there. So really those events are reality's way of stating "move and live else where". That or organized something with fellow neighbors and the police and take the area back. You talk a great story about having a gun to defend against tyranny. Yet, the tyranny is right outside your door (ok, close by). What's the point of having the gun if you can't deal with the threats in your own neighborhood? You dont have to go all 'Rambo' or 'Second Comming' either. You have your gun because your afraid, NOT, for exercising a freedom. If I were to get an AK, it may be of use for self defense. But I would get it just because its an interesting rifle. That's exercising a freedom! Needing a gun to protect yourself from thugs is not a freedom; its a collar. You can not remove the firearm without the overwhelming fear of something evil or dreadful taking place. I can remove the firearm and not experience that fear. That's freedom. Your in a tough situation. I hope things improve on your end without needing to move from that area. Stay safe, BamaD!

BamaD -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 7:42:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer For one mad, surreal moment last night, I thought this forum might get through a week without someone starting a new gun thread. I would not have if ALL the gun threads were anything OTHER than gunz bad, begging for your life good threads. You know what they say happens when you bring 'begging' to a 'gun fight' LOL What I posted above are only the incidents where thugs wound up dead and hit the news. Most never get reported because simply brandishing a weapon will scare off most thugs except for the rambo crowd. My experiance 4 incidents, all on my property (I live in a bad part of town). Result, upon touching my firearm, 4 would-be thugs running away. Number of police reports 0. 1 incident before those my glasses were fogged over and I couldn't see till too late to pull my weapon and take the safety off. Result I got mugged. Police reports 1, police effectiveness 0. You justify your need to have a firearm by living in a bad part of town. You could always move.... I understand why your in that bad part of town. You told me once. I'm not going to say it here. I understand why your in that bad part of town. Yet, to state more, would be revealing things to those that do not understand your circumstances. Its tough to do what I am stating as an option given that circumstance your in. But to publish these moments of defense, is just using the situation for your political advantage. If you had NO CHOICE but to live in that particular area; yes, you would have a valid and good point. But as I stated, you choose to live there. So really those events are reality's way of stating "move and live else where". That or organized something with fellow neighbors and the police and take the area back. You talk a great story about having a gun to defend against tyranny. Yet, the tyranny is right outside your door (ok, close by). What's the point of having the gun if you can't deal with the threats in your own neighborhood? You dont have to go all 'Rambo' or 'Second Comming' either. You have your gun because your afraid, NOT, for exercising a freedom. If I were to get an AK, it may be of use for self defense. But I would get it just because its an interesting rifle. That's exercising a freedom! Needing a gun to protect yourself from thugs is not a freedom; its a collar. You can not remove the firearm without the overwhelming fear of something evil or dreadful taking place. I can remove the firearm and not experience that fear. That's freedom. Your in a tough situation. I hope things improve on your end without needing to move from that area. Stay safe, BamaD! The neighborhood turned bad a decade after I moved here, so no I did not choose to live in a neighborhood like this. No I cannot afford to move. You can talk about going to victims funerals and it is just providing proof of your point but if I provide first hand evidence of guns being used for self defence I am just using it for political gain, what a hypocrite. You clearly do not understand me or where I am coming from.

joether -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 7:51:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Let's remove the ACA, have a national economic recession or depression for a few years, and see how well those firearms 'facts' of yours hold up? Do you realize that this is an admission that sociological factors, and not guns, cause crime spikes. This has been true since Roman Times! When the economy went south in.....any....economy of importance; the crime rate rose. In ancient times, medival times, even modern times; there were always an abundance of arms to to society. But these things did not really deter the criminal mind from doing things. But social programs are not targeting the criminal minded individuals. Its giving people a chance to take a different path rather than the desperate one. They need money to fund fuel for staying warm at night; so we the government, give them a subsidy that pays for it. Now does that individual have a reason to freeze their ass off to steal some guy's TV and pawn it off to find funds for fuel? No of course not! Getting good medicine was one reason some took the criminal path. They could not obtain the drugs they needed by legal means. Their paycheck did not give them the ability to purchase those drugs. So they robbed other people to get resources with which to get medicine. So we created the ACA. Now that person can get healthcare coverage and the drugs they need. Do they have a need to steal for it now? No of course not! Someone steals food because they are hungry. So we give them food. What is the incentive for them to steal? A mother obtains a firearm while on the run from her ex whom is a BIG gun guy. What if we prohibit that guy from firearms? To own or acquire legally? Since if your spouce doesn't trust you, why should society? Yes, we allow the woman to obtain a firearm. Gives further incentive for the guy to do nothing towards the woman. In each case, a social program of some kind, deals better with the situation than not having one. We had a recession just recently (2006-2011). During that time, crime rate was unusually steady if not lower. Why? People in the 'poor' or 'dropping to poor' areas of our society at that time were able to obtain resources from their community and government that help combat their problems. We had food pantries to help those families in which both husband and wife were unemployed. So they could use what little money they did have on other things. One US City even opened up housing for the homeless. They got them better medical treatment in house. Hired a few psychologists to help with mental/emotional problems (i.e. alcoholism). Even brought in area businesses for job interviews. What happened? The city experienced a 2/3rd drop in costs normally associated with such tasks. The whole while there are firearms present in society. How much did firearms effect the many chains of events by individuals verse all the social programs and policies in play for the same time period? Without social programs, crime spikes. Doesn't matter the number of firearms owned or on one's person in play in society during that same time frame. Therefore, firearms really do not play as critical a factor as the NRA would have us all believe. I help supported those pantries, BamaD. Do you know the sensation upon seeing these people stumble in? The parents? All with defeat, embarrassment, and humiliation written on their faces. So what did all of us do? We made home cooked meals, gave advice and helpful tips to find jobs, directed them to programs that were fun and free for their kids. Gave them a shoulder to cry on when life was unbearable. An ear to listen to troubles. We had more positive effects on these people's lives, then all the fucking guns in the nation combined!

dcnovice -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 7:52:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer For one mad, surreal moment last night, I thought this forum might get through a week without someone starting a new gun thread. Oh dear. Have you been feverish? Any chills?

joether -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 8:29:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer For one mad, surreal moment last night, I thought this forum might get through a week without someone starting a new gun thread. I would not have if ALL the gun threads were anything OTHER than gunz bad, begging for your life good threads. You know what they say happens when you bring 'begging' to a 'gun fight' LOL What I posted above are only the incidents where thugs wound up dead and hit the news. Most never get reported because simply brandishing a weapon will scare off most thugs except for the rambo crowd. My experiance 4 incidents, all on my property (I live in a bad part of town). Result, upon touching my firearm, 4 would-be thugs running away. Number of police reports 0. 1 incident before those my glasses were fogged over and I couldn't see till too late to pull my weapon and take the safety off. Result I got mugged. Police reports 1, police effectiveness 0. You justify your need to have a firearm by living in a bad part of town. You could always move.... I understand why your in that bad part of town. You told me once. I'm not going to say it here. I understand why your in that bad part of town. Yet, to state more, would be revealing things to those that do not understand your circumstances. Its tough to do what I am stating as an option given that circumstance your in. But to publish these moments of defense, is just using the situation for your political advantage. If you had NO CHOICE but to live in that particular area; yes, you would have a valid and good point. But as I stated, you choose to live there. So really those events are reality's way of stating "move and live else where". That or organized something with fellow neighbors and the police and take the area back. You talk a great story about having a gun to defend against tyranny. Yet, the tyranny is right outside your door (ok, close by). What's the point of having the gun if you can't deal with the threats in your own neighborhood? You dont have to go all 'Rambo' or 'Second Comming' either. You have your gun because your afraid, NOT, for exercising a freedom. If I were to get an AK, it may be of use for self defense. But I would get it just because its an interesting rifle. That's exercising a freedom! Needing a gun to protect yourself from thugs is not a freedom; its a collar. You can not remove the firearm without the overwhelming fear of something evil or dreadful taking place. I can remove the firearm and not experience that fear. That's freedom. Your in a tough situation. I hope things improve on your end without needing to move from that area. Stay safe, BamaD! The neighborhood turned bad a decade after I moved here, so no I did not choose to live in a neighborhood like this. No I cannot afford to move. You can talk about going to victims funerals and it is just providing proof of your point but if I provide first hand evidence of guns being used for self defence I am just using it for political gain, what a hypocrite. You clearly do not understand me or where I am coming from. You could move, if you wanted. You do not want to move. It has nothing to do with money. The one sort of person that could not move is someone that is paralyzed from the neck down. If your in that position, your gun is not going to do shit anyways. So, you can move. You choose not to. So your pushing political bullshit onto unsuspecting people in the hopes of gaining pity. You want to talk hypocrisy here? Do you have any idea how many of us have used self defense when confronted with hostile opponents? That a firearm would not have solved problems but created new ones? Maybe even worst than the original problem? Yes, you scared away the amateurs. How about the more hardcore types? The ones that have guns? Ever go up against desperate? The ones that feel they have nothing to lose? I have. Hence, why I support programs to keep people from getting to that frame of mind. Give them positive options to deal with their problems. They become less desperate. You could live anywhere in the nation. I wonder, if you lived else where; perhaps a safer place. Would you even need the gun? I'm not saying any of this to be mean. Do I sound like the sort of individual that really enjoys seeing other people suffer? You say a firearms should be an individual freedom. Yet your situation is anything but enjoying freedom. I've thought about your situation at times. Even when listening to the hardcore gun controlling liberals that wish to ban guns. You do have some good points. Whether you realize it or not, I've learned a few things. One of which is things are not 'either or', or 'black and white'. There exist a vast grey area. We are limited in many ways by our own laws. Gun nuts and gun controllers can not handle the 'grey matter' between law and chaos. Yet, there are situations in which a person with a firearm are the exception rather than the rule. The problem is if we have to many exceptions or to many to those exceptions, the law by which we enjoy freedoms is diminished. It comes down to weighing individual freedoms to society's needs. Not an easy thing to accomplish. On this topic or others. We have to apply laws across the board, yet, there are exceptions by which the law compromises safety of the individual. And there is the reversal of that effect; the individual becomes a danger, due to circumstances to society. An there are exceptions there as well. You could move. I understand your position your in and why (as far as you've told me). How about we leave it at that and table the discussion for now?

BamaD -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 8:51:44 PM)
You could move, if you wanted. You do not want to move. It has nothing to do with money. The one sort of person that could not move is someone that is paralyzed from the neck down. If your in that position, your gun is not going to do shit anyways. So, you can move. You choose not to. So your pushing political bullshit onto unsuspecting people in the hopes of gaining pity. You want to talk hypocrisy here? How am I suppossed to move? I don't even have a car since the engine blew up about 8 months ago. You suffer from the delusion that anyone can afford a 40,000 dollar car and that 4,000 dollars won't put a strain on anyones checking account. Well tricare ripped me off for 400 dollars 3 months ago and I still just barely pay my bills. This just shows how totally out of touch you are. Further you are a generation younger than I am and grew up in PROM. Running from thugs may be the right thing to do. People of my age and background don't jump toward surrender, and that is what you are suggesting I do. About a two years ago the thugs started moving back, at that time I was surrounded, now they are only on one side of me. Why should I run now when the good guys are starting to win? You can take your pity and shove it. I don't know who defended themselves without a gun, and I don't care. Other means would have required violence, no thug is going to backi down against a 60+ year old unless I proove I can whip him, a .45 realigns his thinking without even aiming at him. I don't aim for sympathy, I recount facts.

BamaD -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 9:01:41 PM)
FR Joe You are still using you standard tatic of if they agree with you they are pure as the driven snow. If they diagree they are seriously flawed and sick people.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 9:41:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD You could move, if you wanted. You do not want to move. It has nothing to do with money. The one sort of person that could not move is someone that is paralyzed from the neck down. If your in that position, your gun is not going to do shit anyways. So, you can move. You choose not to. So your pushing political bullshit onto unsuspecting people in the hopes of gaining pity. You want to talk hypocrisy here? How am I suppossed to move? I don't even have a car since the engine blew up about 8 months ago. You suffer from the delusion that anyone can afford a 40,000 dollar car and that 4,000 dollars won't put a strain on anyones checking account. Well tricare ripped me off for 400 dollars 3 months ago and I still just barely pay my bills. This just shows how totally out of touch you are. Sorry Bama, you don't need money to move. Joe is right - you choose not to move. I moved with nothing, but at least I did have a car which helped. I moved with my wife and 2 kids 5 miles across town so they could be nearer the schools. My brother and his family moved with not a bean to his name or a pot to piss in. He doesn't drive, never owned a car or a phone in his life. He packed what he could and walked 250 miles with his wife and 2 kids and found somewhere else to live because he didn't like what his local neighbourhood was turning into. There have been many people in the US caught in hurricanes and tornado's (or even fires in some areas) that had their whole life destroyed - yet they moved or rebuilt their lives from nothing, with nothing. There are hundreds of thousands of migrants that just up sticks with nothing more than a handful of bits or what clothes they have on their backs and move thousands of miles and make a new life for themselves. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Further you are a generation younger than I am and grew up in PROM. Running from thugs may be the right thing to do. People of my age and background don't jump toward surrender, and that is what you are suggesting I do. No, he's suggesting that you stop being an old stick-in-mud with your ostrich head buried in the sand. The stubbornness is a mindset, not an age gap. You are stuck in your ways and refuse to accept any sort of change that might affect you even if it has been proven elsewhere that the change works for the good of society in general. That's called being pig-headed. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD About a two years ago the thugs started moving back, at that time I was surrounded, now they are only on one side of me. Why should I run now when the good guys are starting to win? You can take your pity and shove it. I don't know who defended themselves without a gun, and I don't care. Other means would have required violence, no thug is going to backi down against a 60+ year old unless I proove I can whip him, a .45 realigns his thinking without even aiming at him. I don't aim for sympathy, I recount facts. So.... pointing a gun and threatening someone, who may well be innocent but you think he's a villain, isn't violence?? If the other person isn't armed, just standing up to them can defuse a tense situation; but your solution is to draw a gun or at least to threaten to do so. In my books, that's intimidation and threatening behaviour.

BamaD -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 10:16:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD You could move, if you wanted. You do not want to move. It has nothing to do with money. The one sort of person that could not move is someone that is paralyzed from the neck down. If your in that position, your gun is not going to do shit anyways. So, you can move. You choose not to. So your pushing political bullshit onto unsuspecting people in the hopes of gaining pity. You want to talk hypocrisy here? How am I suppossed to move? I don't even have a car since the engine blew up about 8 months ago. You suffer from the delusion that anyone can afford a 40,000 dollar car and that 4,000 dollars won't put a strain on anyones checking account. Well tricare ripped me off for 400 dollars 3 months ago and I still just barely pay my bills. This just shows how totally out of touch you are. Sorry Bama, you don't need money to move. Joe is right - you choose not to move. I moved with nothing, but at least I did have a car which helped. I moved with my wife and 2 kids 5 miles across town so they could be nearer the schools. My brother and his family moved with not a bean to his name or a pot to piss in. He doesn't drive, never owned a car or a phone in his life. He packed what he could and walked 250 miles with his wife and 2 kids and found somewhere else to live because he didn't like what his local neighbourhood was turning into. There have been many people in the US caught in hurricanes and tornado's (or even fires in some areas) that had their whole life destroyed - yet they moved or rebuilt their lives from nothing, with nothing. There are hundreds of thousands of migrants that just up sticks with nothing more than a handful of bits or what clothes they have on their backs and move thousands of miles and make a new life for themselves. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Further you are a generation younger than I am and grew up in PROM. Running from thugs may be the right thing to do. People of my age and background don't jump toward surrender, and that is what you are suggesting I do. No, he's suggesting that you stop being an old stick-in-mud with your ostrich head buried in the sand. The stubbornness is a mindset, not an age gap. You are stuck in your ways and refuse to accept any sort of change that might affect you even if it has been proven elsewhere that the change works for the good of society in general. That's called being pig-headed. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD About a two years ago the thugs started moving back, at that time I was surrounded, now they are only on one side of me. Why should I run now when the good guys are starting to win? You can take your pity and shove it. I don't know who defended themselves without a gun, and I don't care. Other means would have required violence, no thug is going to backi down against a 60+ year old unless I proove I can whip him, a .45 realigns his thinking without even aiming at him. I don't aim for sympathy, I recount facts. So.... pointing a gun and threatening someone, who may well be innocent but you think he's a villain, isn't violence?? If the other person isn't armed, just standing up to them can defuse a tense situation; but your solution is to draw a gun or at least to threaten to do so. In my books, that's intimidation and threatening behaviour. I have never touched a gun unless just standing up to them fails. How innocent can someone be when they sneak up on you at 3 am, admit they are a drug dealer and use you "coversation'' standing up to them to keep working in on you. And in I didn't draw, I just touched my gun, still holstered and he ran away. Your book is screwy. It wasn't a threat, I was telling him that if he didn't listen to reason and leave my property as I had told him to there would be extreme penalties. I was merely advising of the cost of his actions if he persisted. It is good for society in general to turn a neiborhood over to the animals? What a warped way of looking at things. No money huh, How did you pay first and last months rent? Safety deposite? Deposites for utilities? Or a down payment on a new house? BTW, you never did explain to me how "lax" gun laws in VA caused a big increase in knife murders in DC, there was no increase in gun murders but there was with every other weapon imagineable. And why didn't VA have the same astromonical crime rate?

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (10/31/2015 11:03:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I have never touched a gun unless just standing up to them fails. How innocent can someone be when they sneak up on you at 3 am, admit they are a drug dealer and use you "coversation'' standing up to them to keep working in on you. And in I didn't draw, I just touched my gun, still holstered and he ran away. Your book is screwy. It wasn't a threat, I was telling him that if he didn't listen to reason and leave my property as I had told him to there would be extreme penalties. I was merely advising of the cost of his actions if he persisted. With those words and touching your gun is indeed a threat. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD It is good for society in general to turn a neiborhood over to the animals? What a warped way of looking at things. If you don't like your neighbourhood, move. Leave the thugs to fight among themselves - move to a better town/city/district where it's a LOT safer. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD No money huh, How did you pay first and last months rent? It was paid for when we first moved in many years ago when we had the money. When we relocated, the last month's rent wasn't due (wasn't going to be living there) so what you would have paid for that last month goes to pay the first month of the new place. The thing is, you move in a day, maybe two - you don't take a whole month to move. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Safety deposite? Not needed for social housing. That's the beauty of living in a socialist society. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Deposites for utilities? Not needed here. Our society isn't sooo money-grabbing that they ask for deposits before you use the services/utilities. Just like my mobile phone, I have a pay-as-you-go meter for services and utilities. Even if I didn't, you get the bill at the end of the month/quarter - you don't pay up-front. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Or a down payment on a new house? I don't own my house so I don't have a mortgage. Even if I did, the sale of the old house would pay for the down-payment/deposit on the new one. Worst case scenario would be a bridging loan secured on the new property so I could move in until the money from the sale of the old property came through. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD BTW, you never did explain to me how "lax" gun laws in VA caused a big increase in knife murders in DC, there was no increase in gun murders but there was with every other weapon imagineable. And why didn't VA have the same astromonical crime rate? Again, I am only talking guns and gun sales - not knives; so it's irrelevant and off-topic.

BamaD -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (11/1/2015 1:07:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I have never touched a gun unless just standing up to them fails. How innocent can someone be when they sneak up on you at 3 am, admit they are a drug dealer and use you "coversation'' standing up to them to keep working in on you. And in I didn't draw, I just touched my gun, still holstered and he ran away. Your book is screwy. It wasn't a threat, I was telling him that if he didn't listen to reason and leave my property as I had told him to there would be extreme penalties. I was merely advising of the cost of his actions if he persisted. With those words and touching your gun is indeed a threat. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD It is good for society in general to turn a neiborhood over to the animals? What a warped way of looking at things. If you don't like your neighbourhood, move. Leave the thugs to fight among themselves - move to a better town/city/district where it's a LOT safer. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD No money huh, How did you pay first and last months rent? It was paid for when we first moved in many years ago when we had the money. When we relocated, the last month's rent wasn't due (wasn't going to be living there) so what you would have paid for that last month goes to pay the first month of the new place. The thing is, you move in a day, maybe two - you don't take a whole month to move. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Safety deposite? Not needed for social housing. That's the beauty of living in a socialist society. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Deposites for utilities? Not needed here. Our society isn't sooo money-grabbing that they ask for deposits before you use the services/utilities. Just like my mobile phone, I have a pay-as-you-go meter for services and utilities. Even if I didn't, you get the bill at the end of the month/quarter - you don't pay up-front. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Or a down payment on a new house? I don't own my house so I don't have a mortgage. Even if I did, the sale of the old house would pay for the down-payment/deposit on the new one. Worst case scenario would be a bridging loan secured on the new property so I could move in until the money from the sale of the old property came through. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD BTW, you never did explain to me how "lax" gun laws in VA caused a big increase in knife murders in DC, there was no increase in gun murders but there was with every other weapon imagineable. And why didn't VA have the same astromonical crime rate? Again, I am only talking guns and gun sales - not knives; so it's irrelevant and off-topic. So your proclimation that I wouldn't need money to move is totally worthless, I am buying my house so I can't just up and leave. There is no last months rent to save me money. There is no social housing. No knives are not off topic, for every death by gun that was dropped theu got 20 kife murders. It is relevant because the reason was that they disarmed everyone but the criminals. This is the trade off you get. But I guess that no matter how many more people die as long as it isn't by gun. You want to only talk about gun crime and can't see that the total crime levels that is important. Every time we have tried it we have gotten the same results. On the other hand every time we pass a concealed carry law crime drops.

BamaD -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (11/1/2015 9:27:32 AM)
With those words and touching your gun is indeed a threat. I said those words to you, not to him, to him I, once agian, ordered him off my property. When I touched my gun, not drew it, just touched it, he finally heard me tell him to get off my property. Do you remember telling me how rather than running from the thugs in your area you walked down the street with a mace? Now that is an attempt to intimidate, and is most assuredly aggressive.

MercTech -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (11/1/2015 9:41:07 AM)
The biggest change in concealed carry law is that the individual does not have to prove a need to be issued a concealed carry permit but the issuing authority must prove a reason why the permit will not be issued. Blanket refusal to issue a permit is not permitted by law. But, a training requirement for a permit is legal under the law. Also, there must be consistent enforcement of law. And, the level of background check for issue of a concealed carry permit can be more thorough than the database check for purchase of a weapon. Keep in mind that the definition of "concealed weapon" also includes knives, swords, and bludgeoning weapons as well as firearms. Stun guns and pepper spray are also weapons in many jurisdictions. Consider a shoving match or even a loud verbal altercation that requires police being called. If a person has a pocket knife over a certain length on their person, even if never used, can be charged with a felony that carries prison time and loss of citizen's rights. (very dependent on jurisdiction as to definition of "concealed weapon" and the penalties if caught) I haven't done a complete survey of laws state by state. I do find it oddly ironic that some of the states with the most draconian firearm control laws seem to have the more benign penalties for violating concealed carry laws and some of the most lenient states on firearms have much stronger penalties for unlawful concealed weapons carry. (California - misdemeanor and probation prescribed. Georgia - felony and 2-5 years in prison ... just an example)

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (11/1/2015 10:09:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD With those words and touching your gun is indeed a threat. I said those words to you, not to him, to him I, once agian, ordered him off my property. When I touched my gun, not drew it, just touched it, he finally heard me tell him to get off my property. You can ask as politely as you like. Your actions together with whatever words you chose to say to him, make that a direct threat to him. If you muttered something while sitting in a rocker on your porch drinking a cup of tea in the balmy afternoon sunshine, they would be nothing more than a polite request. However, by standing there with your hand on your gun or anywhere near your gun, in a stance that suggests you might be inclined to use it, turns a string of polite request verbiage into a direct personal threat to him. The actual words, polite or otherwise, on their own makes no difference at all. That's the difference. And one might ponder what the fuck you were doing out at 3am in the morning if you weren't looking for an excuse for a confrontation. Any sensible person would be inside, in the warm, minding their own business and probably asleep - unless the trespasser happens to start climbing through a window into your house... that's a different ball of wax. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Do you remember telling me how rather than running from the thugs in your area you walked down the street with a mace? Now that is an attempt to intimidate, and is most assuredly aggressive. Attempt to intimidate, yes. It served it's purpose. However, I made no direct threat to anyone which is why the police took no action for it. Much like walking down the road with a baseball bat. On it's own, it is not a threat (and quite legal) - unless wielded in such a manner as to be one. Maybe your redneck attitude means you cannot distinguish the finer nuances of the language coupled with certain actions. Perhaps this is why you cannot comprehend what is a threat or something that is effective but not directly threatening. Perhaps that is why you feel you need your gun and the likes of me don't.

BamaD -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (11/1/2015 1:37:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD With those words and touching your gun is indeed a threat. I said those words to you, not to him, to him I, once agian, ordered him off my property. When I touched my gun, not drew it, just touched it, he finally heard me tell him to get off my property. You can ask as politely as you like. Your actions together with whatever words you chose to say to him, make that a direct threat to him. If you muttered something while sitting in a rocker on your porch drinking a cup of tea in the balmy afternoon sunshine, they would be nothing more than a polite request. However, by standing there with your hand on your gun or anywhere near your gun, in a stance that suggests you might be inclined to use it, turns a string of polite request verbiage into a direct personal threat to him. The actual words, polite or otherwise, on their own makes no difference at all. That's the difference. And one might ponder what the fuck you were doing out at 3am in the morning if you weren't looking for an excuse for a confrontation. Any sensible person would be inside, in the warm, minding their own business and probably asleep - unless the trespasser happens to start climbing through a window into your house... that's a different ball of wax. quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Do you remember telling me how rather than running from the thugs in your area you walked down the street with a mace? Now that is an attempt to intimidate, and is most assuredly aggressive. Attempt to intimidate, yes. It served it's purpose. However, I made no direct threat to anyone which is why the police took no action for it. Much like walking down the road with a baseball bat. On it's own, it is not a threat (and quite legal) - unless wielded in such a manner as to be one. Maybe your redneck attitude means you cannot distinguish the finer nuances of the language coupled with certain actions. Perhaps this is why you cannot comprehend what is a threat or something that is effective but not directly threatening. Perhaps that is why you feel you need your gun and the likes of me don't. I was on my property, he came after me, you were on a public street, seems that it was you, and not me looking for trouble. My property, I don't need an excuse to be on my own poarch any time day or night. I couldn't sleep so I went out on the poarch for some fresh air and a smoke. Nothing in that invites a confrontation. Walking down the street with a mace on the other hand screams "I want a fight". What we have here is if you do it, it is fin. If someone else does it, particularly ae

Termyn8or -> RE: Gun Sales Increase, Violence Declines The 2nd Amendment Protects the Rest! (11/1/2015 1:45:24 PM)
"You justify your need to have a firearm by living in a bad part of town. You could always move...." He doesn't fucking have to. Let the fucking thugs move away because good Citizens like him are killing them when needed. Let them motherfuckers get run off instead of the good people. Hey, they can move to YOUR neighborhood ! And then you can move. You know, after your olady gets raped it might be good therapy for her to redecorate a new house in an upscale neighborhood where people do not give a shit about anyone else. Every motherfucker who wants to take our guns away should be forced to watch their relative, hopefully a child, getting eaten alive by a wild animal. And maybe raped, boy or girl doesn't matter. Maybe have all their cool shit stolen. I mean your best CDs, guitars or whatever you have, while you sit there and watch. Or perhaps two dudes could take you around to a bunch off ATMs at knifepoint. Or better yet, kidnap you and ransom you off. This is the crime capitol of the world folks. I am CONVINCED that guns prevent crimes. For example, in other countries, do you lock your doors ? We do not have to. Know why ? Some punk is not out there trying doors to see if they're open and going to walk into one that happens to be unlocked. He does not know if anyone is home, and if they are they could be armed or possibly a martial arts expert. He does not know the floor plan, and he does not know if there is anything of value (to him) in there. Is it worth the risk ? Tell you what, put a sign on the front of your house says "GUN FREE ZONE" and see what happens. Unless you are fucking pretty well to do and live in a gated community that is one of the stupidest things you could do. Which would explain your disregard for those less lucky financial wise. He could just move my ass. What's more, I was forced to move and I hated it, I liked my neighbors and they liked me. I was out in the middle of the street with a shotgun scaring away would be thieves. For whatever reason I saw a suspicious car,l pulled into the middle of the street, lights off and four people came out like cockroaches and went into people's driveways. Well they were just as quick back into the car when I blew off the shotgun. So go ahead and put a sign on your house saying "I AM AFRAID OF GUNS SO COME AND ROB ME". See how that works out. I did not move because of crime and never would. I will of course make peace with the locals, criminal or not. But they will know I have no compunction against blowing someones head clean off. You want to be disarmed, go ahead, but if you come for my guns you are getting them lead first. T^T

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