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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:39:11 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well, it was a nice thread while it lasted.

I do think it's a good topic, although I don't have that much more to say about it. What so I consider Insane? Gee, I don't know...it's more like what am I scared of...heights (big time), blood, knives, fire and breath play. Animals don't scare me (not even snakes or spiders, really). People who have out of control tempers. And the guy who comes to my door every week tryng to get me to join the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Question: Does what someone is afraid of have much to do with what they might consider Insane? In my opinion yes, if one personalizes the meaning (and since that's probably the only context I'd ever use it in  (see the Blind Men &  Elephant thread) I guess that's what matters to me most. What does Insane mean to anyone else?
Anybody got a comment on how to define Insane?  I think it's the most interesting definitive part of the SSC idea (today anyway)...

*I guess to me it means things that make my stomach churn when I hear or read about them and think: How did someone actually do that? Or, gosh, I don't think I could really do that.

- Susan  

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/18/2006 8:52:31 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:39:59 AM   
darkinshadows


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From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I read it. That's a very nice website I think, amayos - and a very thought-provoking article, I think.

- Susan 

'agrees'
Peace and Rapture


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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:46:27 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, I think I really like the way the site is put together, too. Nice graphics.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:48:10 AM   
MrrPete


Posts: 614
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		Intolerance once again raises its ugly head.

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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:49:15 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I read it. That's a very nice website I think, amayos - and a very thought-provoking article, I think.

- Susan 


Thank you, dear. We are adding more to the site soon.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 8:53:48 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I'll definitely be checking back to see what's new there! Such a nice resource to offer people. And it's free!

- Susan 

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to amayos)
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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 9:32:38 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:


Englighten me someone.

My favorite SSC story is the very first time I went to a BR TNG munch and got talking to a few of the people there- a big step for shy little me.

Anyway I was relating a funny story about a scene I'd had recently with my then master.  He was tickling me incessantly and I was crying and screaming and laughing and suddenly shouted out "red! red!" and my master looked at me and said "Aww isn't that cute, she thinks she has a safeword" and kept tickling me.

The people I was telling the story to looked at me with shocked looks silently for a moment and then one of them very seriously and cautiously said "Well that's not right, you shouldn't do that."

I quickly recovered and said that it was just a game with us and not a big deal and changed the subject- but I'd made an error that day in not realizing how set in stone some people's ideas of safe were.

Oh- and I still play the safeword game today. 

SSC, like all decent ideas, has been taken to unuseful extremes taken up as some Banner o Protection that won't die and lets peopple feel good and safe about themselves as they flame and cry out against the "NOT SSCers!"

Life goes on.

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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 9:38:29 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Wow, you have a nice blog, darknshadows. I just looked at it.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 9:40:20 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Welcome back, Lucky Albatross. Missed you. Hope you like your new place.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 9:44:54 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		SSC was coined to cover the bases with a bunch of newbies.

The exact interpretation is up to individuals involved.

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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 10:49:19 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:



I understand the "Safe", nobody should be taking part in anything that is otherwise, however it's played out. 


I do a lot of things which aren't safe. I'm aware of that as a fact and choose to do them anyway as do my partners. Safety is subjective. Minimizing risk so that what I choose to do is as safe as possible is as far as I can go. I really don't want to break a toy because then I can't play with it again and hell, if I wanted to ensure my safety, I'd have to sit in my house and never move for fear I may twist an ankle while walking or something!

quote:

 And the "Consensual" is absolute and beyond question.


::chuckles:: Well, I do believe in 'mostly' consensual. What I mean by that is that if someone tells me they have a 'hard' limit (is there any other kind?) I will do my best to try to talk them into doing what I want .. (example - needle play.. I adore it, it's a limit with a lot of folks) .. and if they say yes, great, if they say no, then I will respect it and find someone else with whom to play while I make chicken clucking noises at them. I don't cross lines, but that doesn't mean I won't smudge them up a bit with my big toe .. because sometimes someone doesn't really have a limit they thought they did.

quote:

But why "Sane" ?  I don't get this part at all.  I was trying to think what part of "Sane" isn't already covered by "Safe" or "Consensual".  Surely it can be as insane as you like.

Englighten me someone.


Truly, I think it's a warm fuzzy sort of thing. For many years I wondered about my own proclivities .. gawds, I certainly didn't think this shit was .. normal. (Still don't) .. so you wrap the word sane in a pretty little package, maybe a bright red ribbon and viola.. suddenly it becomes OK to be a little twisted. Well, it was OK before, but now we can slap a PC label on what we do by calling it 'sane'. Perverted maybe, unusual, deviant, but not nutso coo coo, damn that woman needs a straight jacket and 15 years of therapy sort of thing.

OK, the straight jacket is definitely doable, but I think you get the drift.

I have been called insane (read: NUTS)  by folks .. and all I can say is that.. no one has been able to certify that as a truth .. and I deal pretty well with all the drool.

Celeste 


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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 12:49:37 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Thanks for the kind words Susan...
Peace and Rapture


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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 12:58:23 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		On another forum I am wresting with this same thing.  A woman wants to have several men beat the living daylights out of her and she wants to be incapacitated for a couple of weeks.

Now, I think there ARE people who could reasonalbly ask for this, although I don't know anyone who I would trust to ask for it who have asked for it.

In this case, I don't believe the woman is asking for it from a sane place.  It all goes back to that whole "informed consent' thing and in her case, I believe she is asking for from a "I hate myself" sort of spacce and that isn't sane.

But don't forget, our dear LuckyAlbatross once belonged to someone who wanted to cut off her clitoris...something I find horrifying to allow anyone but me to do...my question  is, what was he going to do with it afterwards?

Oh isn't this all fun?

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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 1:08:47 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

But why "Sane" ? I don't get this part at all.


Hang out in the place for a few more weeks and you'll notice that not everyone is sane...


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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 1:17:22 PM   
Sunshine119


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Really, this sort of thing reminds me of the debates Xians get into over the word "saved."


Now I'm not "Saved" nor do I qualify as a Christian under most definitions, but most of us don't like to be given names we haven't chosen for ourselves.  Why do some of us who would be horrified to have "vanilla" folk ridicule our way of life find Christians fair game?


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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 1:31:08 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		I am not sure John was in fact referring to Christians but I will.

I find most Christians fair game for one of two reasons
  • They forget that Christ was about being nice and pious and are all for hating and persecuting anyone for anything they feel like and in general have no problem with bombing and killing anyone who stands in their righteous path.
  • The others are silent about the above

There are of course exceptions to this, Jimmy Carter being a prominent one.  You may be one, I have no idea.

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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 1:45:40 PM   
Sunshine119


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

I am not sure John was in fact referring to Christians but I will.

I find most Christians fair game for one of two reasons
  • They forget that Christ was about being nice and pious and are all for hating and persecuting anyone for anything they feel like and in general have no problem with bombing and killing anyone who stands in their righteous path.
  • The others are silent about the above

There are of course exceptions to this, Jimmy Carter being a prominent one.  You may be one, I have no idea.


Well as a pacifist, socialist, vegetarian, Jimmy Carter loving, theologian and ethicist who runs a social service agency that takes care of the people the rest of our capitalistic country abandons, I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't consider himself Christian.  But for the Christians who do seem to follow the history, story or perhaps even myth of Jesus (and I fully agree with your exceptions above), would they like to see themselves called "Xians"? 



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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 3:18:30 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Really, this sort of thing reminds me of the debates Xians get into over the word "saved."


Now I'm not "Saved" nor do I qualify as a Christian under most definitions, but most of us don't like to be given names we haven't chosen for ourselves.  Why do some of us who would be horrified to have "vanilla" folk ridicule our way of life find Christians fair game?


You are a Christian so I suppose you aren't aware of the debates that have raged about "works" vs "will"?  Oh and "Xian" has been accepted shorthand for Christian since at least the middle ages. You might like to consult the Oxford English Dictionary.

< Message edited by JohnWarren -- 7/18/2006 3:20:46 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 3:47:50 PM   
Sunshine119


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Really, this sort of thing reminds me of the debates Xians get into over the word "saved."


Now I'm not "Saved" nor do I qualify as a Christian under most definitions, but most of us don't like to be given names we haven't chosen for ourselves.  Why do some of us who would be horrified to have "vanilla" folk ridicule our way of life find Christians fair game?


You are a Christian so I suppose you aren't aware of the debates that have raged about "works" vs "will"?  Oh and "Xian" has been accepted shorthand for Christian since at least the middle ages. You might like to consult the Oxford English Dictionary.


Ummmm....no, most Christians wouldn't define me as a Christian.  Theologian..yes, Christian, no.  Some date the "X" as in Chi Ro which actually comes from the story of Constintine, but what most people (including Christians) don't know is that he took that to be a sign that Chronos, the god of time AND the god Constintine worshiped (at least until he was converted while in a coma on his deathbed...lol) was blessing his battle.

Most Christians today take Xian or Xmas as an insult.  As for the dictionary?  It lists only Xi'an as the capital of a provence in China. (Isn't that where they have the buried warriors?)  Enough of this however, I'm not up to arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin today.  Peace.

Sunshine


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RE: Safe, Sane and Consensual - 7/18/2006 4:25:46 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EnglishDomNW

Please have a good day.  Mine is fantastic so far and I have ice cream. I really don't have time for people over complicating this thread as if some intellectual degree depended on it.  My ice cream tastes sexy.  Goodbye.


I'd like to thank John and whomever it was who said that SSC can be useful for neophytes but can be seen to exhaust its usefulness in well-developed relationships. These responses concisely and incisively simplified what might have become a tangled mess.

And I'd like to thank the CM gnomes for providing the block feature 'cause I love the way it under-complicates the time I choose to spend here looking for people and ideas worth reading.

(in reply to EnglishDomNW)
Profile   Post #: 40
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