RE: Paris under attack (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 11:14:29 AM)


ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
How do muslims differ from those of the islamic faith?

Islamic faith is a generic umbrella term just like the term christian.

Just as Protestant, Catholic, 7th-Day Aventists etc are all Christian; Muslim, Sunni, Shea, Sufi and others fall under the Islamic umbrella.

I was making the distinction between specifically "Muslim" that Polite mentioned and my post that refers to Islamics (general term) for those following any branch of Islam.

Islamic faith (not necessarily Muslim).
You might want to read this.
Definition of Islam and Muslim
•Islam : the meaning comes from the Arabic verbal noun (like a gerund) s-l-m. When appropriate vowel markers are added the word Islam appears. The etymology of s-l-m is to submit, accept, or surrender. From this comes Islam’s conventional definition of surrender to God.
•Muslim : also has its roots in the s-l-m verb. It is a participle of the verb and refers to a person who engages in the act of submission, acceptance, or surrender. Therefore a Muslim is a person who submits to the will of God, or a follower of Islam.

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-islam-and-muslim/



[ETA: Syria had almost 23 million population in 2013, not 11 million.
As of 1 January 2015, the population of Syria was estimated to be 23 018 387 people.
Source: http://countrymeters.info/en/Syria]


My bad...old data, I stand corrected...thanks for disabusing me of my ignorance



thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 11:30:50 AM)


ORIGINAL: Greta75

Well, this is interesting controversy, because I mean, how will they stop the Syrians from entering their state? Once they are on American soil, it would be interesting how they hope to achieve keeping the refugees out of their land.

First: It is not their land. No state is soverign.



Obama must be so frustrated with this,

Actually the frustrated ones would be the ones saying they will deny access to their state.


since his their biggest sympathizer and defender at the moment.

The articulate guy with the big ears is the defender of the constitution (it is his job). The biggest sympathizers would be the leaders of the muslims

I just find it difficult to have sympathy for anybody supporting the religion that caused all these problems in the first place.

By that metric you can have no sympathy for anyone supporting christianity because of the actions of chirstian militias in africa.

If they supported that religion, they can lie in the bed they made. You can't cherry pick the good stuffs and the bad stuffs. And cry about the bad stuffs that originated from your holy text.


It would appear that you only open your mouth to say stupid shit. How do you think this insipid drivil up???do you have help?[8|]



freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 11:47:11 AM)

Free Dictionary: Islamic - of or relating to or supporting Islamism.

Although a Muslim is also quite a generic term, those who openly call themselves Muslim in India (usually a Hindu but not necessarily so) do not usually, according to my local mosque, associate themselves with the likes of the Sunni and Shi'ite factions of the other branches of Islam.
At least that is what I am told.
So in that sense, the term Muslim is quite distinct from that of an Islamic (general) that the dictionaries would otherwise have us believe.

Meh. It's all Islam to me.
But to be fair, those semi-extreme views held by Afghans, Pakistani and some Turkish Islamics (women have no rights, honour killings are Ok and should be legal, blasphemy is punishable by death, Sharia law etc) don't seem to be generally held by those who call themselves Muslims (usually Indians and Bangladeshi).
Again, a distinction around here that doesn't fit the dictionary definitions.


Who is right?? I have no idea.
But I'd sooner take the definitions of those around me who are practicing within the faith than that of an online dictionary.



thompsonx -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 12:59:24 PM)


ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Free Dictionary: Islamic - of or relating to or supporting Islamism.

Although a Muslim is also quite a generic term, those who openly call themselves Muslim in India (usually a Hindu but not necessarily so) do not usually, according to my local mosque, associate themselves with the likes of the Sunni and Shi'ite factions of the other branches of Islam.
At least that is what I am told.
So in that sense, the term Muslim is quite distinct from that of an Islamic (general) that the dictionaries would otherwise have us believe.

Meh. It's all Islam to me.
But to be fair, those semi-extreme views held by Afghans, Pakistani and some Turkish Islamics (women have no rights, honour killings are Ok and should be legal, blasphemy is punishable by death, Sharia law etc) don't seem to be generally held by those who call themselves Muslims (usually Indians and Bangladeshi).
Again, a distinction around here that doesn't fit the dictionary definitions.


Who is right?? I have no idea.
But I'd sooner take the definitions of those around me who are practicing within the faith than that of an online dictionary.

No reason to check with a valid source when your mind is made up. Besides your definition fits in well with and supports your bigotry and hatred.
I say go with what ever gets you thorugh the night.[8|]



PeonForHer -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 2:45:07 PM)

quote:

So the picture is not 100% pessimistic, but very depressing nonetheless.


Yes. Wow, that was a dismal article.



PeonForHer -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 2:49:33 PM)

quote:


Although a Muslim is also quite a generic term, those who openly call themselves Muslim in India (usually a Hindu but not necessarily so) do not usually, according to my local mosque, associate themselves with the likes of the Sunni and Shi'ite factions of the other branches of Islam.
At least that is what I am told.
So in that sense, the term Muslim is quite distinct from that of an Islamic (general) that the dictionaries would otherwise have us believe.


FD, this is scrambling my brains. Are you saying that Hindus are Muslim? And the term 'Islamic' is distinct from 'Muslim'?



thishereboi -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 3:27:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Well, this is interesting controversy, because I mean, how will they stop the Syrians from entering their state? Once they are on American soil, it would be interesting how they hope to achieve keeping the refugees out of their land.

Obama must be so frustrated with this, since his their biggest sympathizer and defender at the moment.

I just find it difficult to have sympathy for anybody supporting the religion that caused all these problems in the first place.

If they supported that religion, they can lie in the bed they made. You can't cherry pick the good stuffs and the bad stuffs. And cry about the bad stuffs that originated from your holy text.



Yea, I'd say he's a bit frustrated.

http://news.yahoo.com/house-gop-bill-bolster-checks-syrian-refugees-084327089--politics.html

"The vote was 289-137, enough to override a threatened White House veto of the legislation, which was hurriedly drafted in response to the carnage in the streets of Paris. Forty-seven Democrats voted for the bill, despite President Barack Obama's biting criticism of its proposed limits."



Politesub53 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 4:11:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Sunni versus Shia.


Which were the French that were killed?

Butch


Your ignorance is stunning, do you really think no Muslims died in the Paris attacks, or 9/11, or the London bombings, or the Madrid train attack.

I dont really need to continue to make you look stupid because you manage that well enough.



Politesub53 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 4:18:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Just one problem, Marc; until you can prove to believers....definitively...that there is no God, you cannot eliminate that reason. How about some scientific cites of the proof of God's invalidity? Not just arguments. Proof.


I think you will find Marcs point of view is he believes in one less God than you do, like so many of us........ Just saying bruv.



Politesub53 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 4:24:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Yep. I caught that piece last night: there's a big question to be answered there.


Agreed........ Thanks for the link Tweakable.



Politesub53 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 4:29:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
A classic case here of the blind leading the blind. I wonder if you two will stop your Islamophobic love in long enough to read the fucking news.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34131911

I listen to the news (usually the BBC news channel) all day every day and all night.
And your link is all about asylum claims - not those approaching the EU borders.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Are you both suggesting the 20 million migrants figure is actually true ?

That's what the BBC news channel announced just after I sent my original post.
Hence the last-minute edit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Are you both suggesting all the migrants into the EU are Muslims, as you maths seem to be suggesting exactly that.

I never claimed any such thing.
That would be you reading something into my posts that aren't there.
But, it is obvious to all that monitor the news media that the majority of them certainly are of Islamic faith (not necessarily Muslim).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Are you both suggesting that all Muslim men of fighting age are terrorists.

Cite please. Show me where I said or implied that.

What I have said is that there are more than enough of them to create a formidable army to defend their own country instead of expecting the rest of the world to do their fighting for them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Are you both suggesting after 4 years of war that there are no moderate Muslims fighting either IS or Assad.

I didn't say that but it seems to be pretty much the picture.
The moderates are free with their empty words but I see no real action taking place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Are you both just spouting bullshit, yet again.
Do either of you have a fucking clue ?

Perhaps you should keep up with the news and look at the broader picture instead of local gossip.




I get it now, you are just spouting about what may happen as against whats taking place now. You should know full well, or at least you would have if you had read the BBC article on the subject, that not all those refugees are Muslims, or Syrians. Do you wish to revise your bullshit figures, or come to that point out the "local gossip" I have been reading.



Politesub53 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 4:37:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
How do muslims differ from those of the islamic faith?

Islamic faith is a generic umbrella term just like the term christian.

Just as Protestant, Catholic, 7th-Day Aventists etc are all Christian; Muslim, Sunni, Shea, Sufi and others fall under the Islamic umbrella.

I was making the distinction between specifically "Muslim" that Polite mentioned and my post that refers to Islamics (general term) for those following any branch of Islam.


[ETA: Syria had almost 23 million population in 2013, not 11 million.
As of 1 January 2015, the population of Syria was estimated to be 23 018 387 people.
Source: http://countrymeters.info/en/Syria]



Boy oh boy FD........ your ignorance grows by the day. Muslim just means an adherent of the Islamic faith. This definition applies equally to all branchs, not just Sunni, Shia etc



CreativeDominant -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 4:39:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Just one problem, Marc; until you can prove to believers....definitively...that there is no God, you cannot eliminate that reason. How about some scientific cites of the proof of God's invalidity? Not just arguments. Proof.


I think you will find Marcs point of view is he believes in one less God than you do, like so many of us........ Just saying bruv.

And he's entitled to his belief, as are you and anyone else...including those that believe. However, if he thinks that this:

Then why not eliminate one of those reasons? The stupidest reason of all . . . the belief that an invisible man living in the sky who spends all his time obsessing over what we do with our genitalia and issuing commands over what to do about it.

...can be easily eliminated, then he's wrong. He might believe it to be so...there is no God...but without proof of the validity of his statement, others will continue to believe.



Politesub53 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 4:44:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:


Although a Muslim is also quite a generic term, those who openly call themselves Muslim in India (usually a Hindu but not necessarily so) do not usually, according to my local mosque, associate themselves with the likes of the Sunni and Shi'ite factions of the other branches of Islam.
At least that is what I am told.
So in that sense, the term Muslim is quite distinct from that of an Islamic (general) that the dictionaries would otherwise have us believe.


FD, this is scrambling my brains. Are you saying that Hindus are Muslim? And the term 'Islamic' is distinct from 'Muslim'?



By God Holmes, I think you have it. According to FD Hindus are Muslims as well, no wonder he is confused. [;)]



Politesub53 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 4:51:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And he's entitled to his belief, as are you and anyone else...including those that believe. However, if he thinks that this:

Then why not eliminate one of those reasons? The stupidest reason of all . . . the belief that an invisible man living in the sky who spends all his time obsessing over what we do with our genitalia and issuing commands over what to do about it.

...can be easily eliminated, then he's wrong. He might believe it to be so...there is no God...but without proof of the validity of his statement, others will continue to believe.


Once again showing the class just how wrong you can be Creative.

Got to love you asking (and whats funnier being serious about it) is asking Marc to prove that someone who doesnt exist, doesnt exist.



Politesub53 -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 5:08:47 PM)

FR.......

Can anyone show me any article stating there are 20 million refugees on Europes borders, because that figure, as quoted in this thread, is total bollocks.

Anyone posting the bullshit quote from some Hungarian politician will either have to show some valid stats or get laughed at.



CreativeDominant -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 5:23:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And he's entitled to his belief, as are you and anyone else...including those that believe. However, if he thinks that this:

Then why not eliminate one of those reasons? The stupidest reason of all . . . the belief that an invisible man living in the sky who spends all his time obsessing over what we do with our genitalia and issuing commands over what to do about it.

...can be easily eliminated, then he's wrong. He might believe it to be so...there is no God...but without proof of the validity of his statement, others will continue to believe.


Once again showing the class just how wrong you can be Creative.

Got to love you asking (and whats funnier being serious about it) is asking Marc to prove that someone who doesnt exist, doesnt exist.

And once again proving how arrogant you can be, polite(?)sub...thinking that because Marc...and apparently you...believe it to be so, it is so.



Marc2b -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 6:14:31 PM)

quote:

Just one problem, Marc; until you can prove to believers....definitively...that there is no God, you cannot eliminate that reason. How about some scientific cites of the proof of God's invalidity? Not just arguments. Proof.


Prove to me there is no Santa Claus. Before you try, remember that Santa Clause is magic . . . just like god.

Since it is impossible to disprove a magic being the burden of proof isn't on me but on those who assert the existence of such a being. So far, no such evidence has been forthcoming.



Marc2b -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 6:18:58 PM)

quote:

And he's entitled to his belief, as are you and anyone else...including those that believe. However, if he thinks that this:

Then why not eliminate one of those reasons? The stupidest reason of all . . . the belief that an invisible man living in the sky who spends all his time obsessing over what we do with our genitalia and issuing commands over what to do about it.

...can be easily eliminated, then he's wrong. He might believe it to be so...there is no God...but without proof of the validity of his statement, others will continue to believe.


Easily? Where did that come from? I never said that humanity would give up its delusions easily. Indeed, history shows us that people are perfectly willing to die, and kill, to maintain their beliefs. It is an unfortunate trait of humanity, responsible for much of human misery, including the current crisis in the Middle East and Europe.



kdsub -> RE: Paris under attack (11/19/2015 6:23:57 PM)

In your ranting you missed the point...as usual...It is no longer just Sunni versus Shia as the deaths in France should show you if you would just control your outbursts...Allen I try to talk with you and exchange ideas in a civil manner but your disordered mind makes that impossible...I hope you can learn to deal with your disability. Goodbye

Butch



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