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RE: Old Guard - 7/18/2006 1:40:35 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen;

I see CrappyDom continues to be disrespectful and continue to bait me every chance possible. Pity, as I have not commented much on Old Guard.

However, you have opened the door and this site speaks well about Old Guard and by a very wonderful man who is very well respected, to which I might add his hugs are wonderful.

"Also, there are easily at least a dozen or so "Old Guard" leathermen and leatherwomen who are relatively public, still alive, been in the community for ...
http://tribes.tribe.net/leatherhistory/threa ... 38-9c18-412c-a301-744f186f7529 "

Since this particular 'site' and 'author' has credibility, I will say that CrappyDom's blanketed comment that all the Gays who are "Old Guard" are dead is incorrect.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 21

RE: Old Guard - 7/18/2006 1:55:23 PM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I hate to break it to you but Jay doesn't consider himself to "old guard" and he is rather straight or at least married to a woman, one of the co-authors of The Bottoming Book and others as well as publisher of Greenery Press

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 22

RE: Old Guard - 7/18/2006 2:04:09 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Well to leave the snarkiness alone and give you what you are looking for instead, here goes my attempt.

The "Old Guard" is a term once used for the gay leathermen and women who formed the basis of the leather culture back after WWII. As generations died off the term began to be used to desicribe a style or format of D/s BDSM as opposed to a specific generation of leathermen.

Today there are those who will claim Old Guard training as a way to give themselves credibility instantly, running dead against the precepts of earning your respect that was common in the actual Old Guard. The snarkiness you hear is because of those folks.

Now granted there are some people today who can trace their mentor back through several generations of gay leathermen but they are mostly gay leathermen and leatherwomen who can do this.
I have Old Guard listed in the likes section of my profile because I have spent alot of time with gay leathermen learning some of the history as well as the traditions they have carried on from their elders.
I have even met a few actual Old Guard leathermen and spent time with their "offspring" and those that have continued their traditions.

I enjoy the traditions they have passed down and I use many of the traditions they taught me.
I would never claim to be Old Guard myself but I have gathered a fair amount of inftion from folks who are one or two leather generations from those who started the culture in the early 50's.
(a leather generation is basicly the people who served a specific Master when they have come into their own)

The Old Guard system was very much based on the enlisted military of WWII style of earning one's way to respect.

The Old Guard was one of basicly 3 roots to what we have today, the other two being the old professional Dominatix from the same time period and their predicessors. And the reading circle clubs that existed as early as the late 1800's in some places in the US.

In Leather

Archer

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 23

RE: Old Guard - 7/18/2006 2:10:06 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

BTW txpet you want a good idea of what actual Old Guard is like, take the time to find out when the Discipline Corp is meeting at the Dallas Eagle, Go sit in on the meeting if they are permitting women, you'll see some who still carry on Old Guard traditions.

In Leather

Archer

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 24

RE: Old Guard - 7/18/2006 2:10:53 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear CrappyDom,

I am fully aware Jay Wiseman is straight however, he is of the time and familiar with individuals who identified as "Old Guard."

If you wish Old Guard- Guy Baldwin's many writings on the matter will do as well. Added other sites for others to independently research.

Fetish Information Exchange - Old Guard History information pages, article by Guy ... Real Leathermen keep their word: they do not borrow or lend money; ...
http://www.fetishexchange.org/old-guard.shtml

But it seems in people's haste to call themselves "Old Guard," just who are the true "Old Guard?" Are they the gay leathermen of the late 1940s and 1950s ...
http://www.tdl.com/~thawley/oldgd1.html

Our old LDG mailing list has been discontinued. ... Leathermen's Discussion Group thanks you all for your kind support and ... Old Guard - New Guard ...
http://www.sfldg.org/

A final subpoint to the above is that any "Old Guard" which existed at the time did ... there was something of a divide among the gay leathermen between the ...
http://www.iron-rose.com/IR/docs/olddays.htm

A scant few leather clubs still uphold such "Old Guard" traditions, and many current leathermen--and women--idolize them. Yet the clubs of 1950s and 1960s ...
http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/leather_culture,2.html

Many leathermen of old today still wear earned leather, which is leather passed down from one individual or mentor to a deserving participant. Old Guard and ...
http://www.gayguidetoronto.com/1_leather_101/simp.php?p=feb_2006&back=1

Twilight Guard is a fellowship of leathermen and bears in the gay ... Twilight Guard's attempt to meld the values of both old guard and new guard leather. ...
http://www.thetwilightguard.org/tginfo.html

Old Guard values, some might say. While the Old Guard may be a tradition from the past, these values form a strong foundation upon which the leathermen of ...
http://www.leatherwolves.org/welcome.html

It's my impression that interest in the Old Guard is running at an all-time ... and few gay leathermen in that era felt comfortable enough in the presence ...
http://www.leatherleadership.org/library/LLC6Baldwin.htm

The following is an essay by Guy Baldwin about Old Guard traditions. ... Real Leathermen keep their word: they do not borrow or lend money; they conduct ...
http://www.tdl.com/~thawley/oldgd.html

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 25

RE: Old Guard - 7/18/2006 3:12:37 PM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

I hate to break it to you but Jay doesn't consider himself to "old guard" and he is rather straight or at least married to a woman, one of the co-authors of The Bottoming Book and others as well as publisher of Greenery Press

Janet and Jay are not married. In fact, they broke up a couple of years back.

How Jay feels about "Old Guard" can be detected by his AOL address "[email protected]"

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 26

RE: Old Guard - 7/18/2006 3:18:12 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

*snarf*

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 27

RE: Old Guard - 7/18/2006 4:30:01 PM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Jay Wiseman does NOT consider himself "old guard" and clearly says that it comes from before his time which began in the mid 1970s.

John, my point about Jay being married was to point he was not gay, a rather crucial ingredient to being old guard. I haven't seen him in years as I have been out of the bay scene for quite some time.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 28

RE: Old Guard - 7/18/2006 5:40:07 PM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: txpet

i am sure this is on the message board somewhere but i haven't come across it (umm, pun not intended but made me giggle anyway ...LOL)
Would SOmeone please be so kind as to define Old Guard for me?
Thank You.

Go here: www.leatherviews.com
Search on Old Guard

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to txpet)

Post #: 29

RE: Old Guard - 7/18/2006 8:25:57 PM

carolsea

Posts: 185
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Well in that case I am the finest old guard european housed dominate on the planet! All hail me!

Umm.. that would be dominaNT. LOL - couldn't resist!

_____________________________

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 30

RE: Old Guard - 7/18/2006 8:54:03 PM

txpet

Posts: 200
Joined: 4/29/2006
Status: offline

Thank You all so much!
i've learned a lot today ... and not just about the Old Guard either ... funny how People reveal themselves in everything They do.
Oh dear, i'm thinking too much .. i just got off of work, forgive me!
Again, thank You all ::SMILE::

_____________________________

Ken's dirty girl,
txpet jennie

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 31

RE: Old Guard - 7/18/2006 10:31:25 PM

EvilGeoff

Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline

My friend Archer beat me to the punch here...

I'll just go with an enthusiastic "What he said!"

*smiles*

You know, some of us kinda wish we'd come up the "Old Guard" way, it can be tough being the Dominant or Master when you feel like you are blind, deaf and lost, trying to learn about doing these things that fill your fantasies. Lord knows I've felt completely out of my depth more than a few times. I'm just grateful for the many positive learning experiences I've had along the way from gay leathermen and leatherwomen, from straights and bi's and trannies.

I'll never be able to pay them all back, so I pay it forward to the next generation of kinksters discovering the lifestyle.

YIK,
- Geoff

(in reply to txpet)

Post #: 32

RE: Old Guard - 7/19/2006 2:20:35 AM

mons

Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

archer greetings

I thank you for putting out the truth it is so silly to see a view piont of another rip something up becasue this wanted to make a joke of it. everyone has a right to reply but speak what you know not what someone of the others thought they knew i enjoy you post so much thank you

mons

(in reply to EvilGeoff)

Post #: 33

RE: Old Guard - 7/19/2006 2:46:09 AM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: carolsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Well in that case I am the finest old guard european housed dominate on the planet! All hail me!

Umm.. that would be dominaNT. LOL - couldn't resist!

Yeah, but the way he intentionally (I'll bet) spelled it made the line even funnier.

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to carolsea)

Post #: 34

RE: Old Guard - 7/19/2006 6:16:19 AM

JessieMe

Posts: 510
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline

< Message edited by JessieMe -- 7/19/2006 6:28:42 AM >

_____________________________

This is who I am
And this is all I know.
That I must choose to live for all that I can give
The spark that makes the Power grow
<Immortality by Celine Dion>

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 35

RE: Old Guard - 7/20/2006 6:31:52 AM

Sab

Posts: 325
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

Sort of like born again christians who would execute the real christ in a second.

Couldn't agree more, CD!

As to beng a submissive to become a Dominant in an appentiship where another Dominant does what they 'need to do' so you know the ropes(?) That would be a nope, fella!

_____________________________

God blessed it and it brought me to her.

(in reply to JessieMe)

Post #: 36

RE: Old Guard - 8/26/2007 6:28:11 AM

slavewholongs

Posts: 4
Joined: 7/30/2007
Status: offline

Thank you all for your replies. I had a Master contact me directly when he saw it was i who posted the question. His answer (and that which i have never questioned) is;

Old Guard - goes back to Roman Times when Romans had a slave to dress him, another to cook for him, another to do various other things, e.g tending gardens, providing sexual favors to him, another to provide sexual favors to his friends.

new Old Guard is the new name for homosexuals on the west coast, nothing ihave heard on the east coast.

I love researching different subjects in the lifestyle, education is key to us.

Have a great sunday
maeve

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 37

RE: Old Guard - 8/26/2007 10:06:07 AM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavewholongs

Thank you all for your replies. I had a Master contact me directly when he saw it was i who posted the question. His answer (and that which i have never questioned) is;

Old Guard - goes back to Roman Times when Romans had a slave to dress him, another to cook for him, another to do various other things, e.g tending gardens, providing sexual favors to him, another to provide sexual favors to his friends.

new Old Guard is the new name for homosexuals on the west coast, nothing ihave heard on the east coast.

I love researching different subjects in the lifestyle, education is key to us.

Have a great sunday
maeve

I would seriously question the definition of "Old Guard" as referringto an ancient Roman practice.

I know nothing whatsoever about about Old Guard in relation to BDSM. But i do know a shed load about ancient Rome and attitudes to slavery in antiquity. The term Old Guard has never come up in anything from antiquity that i read, and i was doing so in several different languages from around the Anceint Med. Even in nearer history, sorry make that any historical source i have ever read, i have never heard of a system of slavery being referred to as Old Guard. Having a bunch of slaves to care for your needs is just what happened in the ancient world.

Old Guard may be a modern term for an ancient form of slavery, but it doesn't seem to fit with what other people have said. I would stake my education on the fact that no Roman or figure from antiquity ever spoke the phrase "old Guard" with refernce to slavery

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to slavewholongs)

Post #: 38

RE: Old Guard - 8/26/2007 3:17:46 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

I suspect that is a safe bet...

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 39

RE: Old Guard - 8/26/2007 5:45:06 PM

submittous

Posts: 345
Joined: 6/12/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The best answer I've ever seen to this question was given by MsSilvie on Feb 4, 2005:

"It means one of two things. Either the person was involved in the gay leather scene with somewhat militaristic undertones after WWII to the early 60's, or..... someone is trying to give themselves instant credibility by pretending to have some kind of special training that makes them elite and some how better than others.

Usually, it means the latter."

Yep. I agree that is a pretty good summation of "Old Guard" from my experience too. I went to my first Dungeon party in 1967 in west Hollywood and in all the 40 years since I have never met anyone who claimed to have old guard training who turned out to be genuine. Of course YMMV.

Bill

_____________________________

"If you are lucky enough to find a way of life you love, you have to find the courage to live it." John Irving

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 40

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