RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs

RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 7:28:09 AM)
I would assume that he was shooting at people going into, or looked like they were going into PP. Either that, or he was trying to rob the bank 'in his confusion' one depositor at a time, what do you think?

Lucylastic -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 7:32:44 AM)
I said links. I didnt accuse you of saying anything about a bank...so dont try and deflect. Some others have, and its been the fox by line since it happened. I asked for links, LIke the below, not what you think you heard or listened to I meant verifiable factual links. Not your spidey sense. I havent said anything about it being the motive. In fact I have said other wise since the FIRST POST> A stay-at-home mother of two young children and a man who had served in Iraq were named on Sunday as the two civilians killed along with a local police officer in last week's rampage at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado. The Colorado Springs Police Department named the two civilians as Jennifer Markovsky, 35, and Ke'Arre Marcell Stewart, 29, though it said the identifications were preliminary pending completion of the autopsies. Also killed in the shooting was Garrett Swasey, 44, a campus police officer for the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs. Markovsky was at the clinic to be with a friend, according to Julia Miller, a sister-in-law who lives in California. “She was just there for support,” Miller said in a phone interview. “It’s just a very senseless act. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time.” Markovsky was a native of Hawaii, where she met her husband, who was deployed there while serving in the military. The couple had lived in Colorado for about 10 years. They have a 6-year-old daughter and 10-year-old son. Miller remembered her sister-in-law as kind and creative. “She could probably do anything from crafts from baking to anything you could imagine,” Miller said. On Facebook, a man named John Ah-King of Hawaii mourned the loss of his daughter. “To my daughter Jennifer I'm going to miss so much, I lost you in a senseless shooting in Colorado Springs," the post read. Stewart was an Iraq war veteran and Texas native who attended high school in Waco, according to relatives and friends. "He was caring, giving, funny and just a damn good person,” Amburh Butler, a friend, said on a fundraising page set up to help Stewart’s family with funeral and transportation costs. Swasey was a retired champion figure skater who moved from Massachusetts to Colorado Springs to train at the U.S. Olympic Training Center, located a few miles from the clinic. He was a married father of two who served as an elder at a local church. According to this one of the women was AT the clinic. Read more at Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/30/us-colorado-shooter-victims-idUSKBN0TI0YH20151130#pyDKsH3XrdxoAfBg.99

BamaD -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 7:34:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I would assume that he was shooting at people going into, or looked like they were going into PP. Either that, or he was trying to rob the bank 'in his confusion' one depositor at a time, what do you think? Since I never said he was trying to rob the bank the only point I can see to your post is a vain attempt to look smarter than you are, to make me look dumb, or to get in good with Lucy. I think we have very shoddy reporting and so we don't know just what happened. I have stated that he may well have been after PP. I have also stated that the information, as it has been doled out, doesn't fit. But we go back to my earlier statement shoddy reporting

BamaD -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 7:38:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic I said links. I didnt accuse you of saying anything about a bank...so dont try and deflect. Some others have, and its been the fox by line since it happened. I asked for links, LIke the below, not what you think you heard or listened to I meant verifiable factual links. Not your spidey sense. I havent said anything about it being the motive. In fact I have said other wise since the FIRST POST> A stay-at-home mother of two young children and a man who had served in Iraq were named on Sunday as the two civilians killed along with a local police officer in last week's rampage at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado. The Colorado Springs Police Department named the two civilians as Jennifer Markovsky, 35, and Ke'Arre Marcell Stewart, 29, though it said the identifications were preliminary pending completion of the autopsies. Also killed in the shooting was Garrett Swasey, 44, a campus police officer for the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs. Markovsky was at the clinic to be with a friend, according to Julia Miller, a sister-in-law who lives in California. “She was just there for support,” Miller said in a phone interview. “It’s just a very senseless act. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time.” Markovsky was a native of Hawaii, where she met her husband, who was deployed there while serving in the military. The couple had lived in Colorado for about 10 years. They have a 6-year-old daughter and 10-year-old son. Miller remembered her sister-in-law as kind and creative. “She could probably do anything from crafts from baking to anything you could imagine,” Miller said. On Facebook, a man named John Ah-King of Hawaii mourned the loss of his daughter. “To my daughter Jennifer I'm going to miss so much, I lost you in a senseless shooting in Colorado Springs," the post read. Stewart was an Iraq war veteran and Texas native who attended high school in Waco, according to relatives and friends. "He was caring, giving, funny and just a damn good person,” Amburh Butler, a friend, said on a fundraising page set up to help Stewart’s family with funeral and transportation costs. Swasey was a retired champion figure skater who moved from Massachusetts to Colorado Springs to train at the U.S. Olympic Training Center, located a few miles from the clinic. He was a married father of two who served as an elder at a local church. According to this one of the women was AT the clinic. Read more at Reutershttp://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/30/us-colorado-shooter-victims-idUSKBN0TI0YH20151130#pyDKsH3XrdxoAfBg.99 You addressed the post to me, or forgot to put in an FR. You challenged me to provide links to defend something someone else said. Refusing to defend something someone else said and which I have seen nothing to support is not deflection.

CreativeDominant -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 7:41:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Where are all the stories about it being a bank robbery, AFTER the fact, not Fox news. Please ANY links evn RW ones suggesting its a botched bank robbery... please, I really am not interested in your "spidey sense" after all we have eye witness accounts of a sister calling her brother to take care of her kids, because she was inside the clinic while shots were being fired. Some staff escaped harm by following security protocol and hiding in specially designed “safe areas” at the building, reports said. Bullet proof glass doors, an excellent security camera system, and a rammed in building by the cops could get those in safe areas out. so please forward these links about a bank job or anything to back up your thoughts... Im holding my breath. I never said anything about a bank job. We have eye witnesses that say the shooting started outside the clinic near the bank. Near, not inside. We don't know what happened. The guy was a nut case. He may have been after PP he may not. I have not made one claim as to what his motives were because I don't know, neither do you and most assuredly neither does Joe. They finally released the names of the victims. Your post confirms that the killing took place outside. Why would he start shooting outside if he was after PP? The only thing we know for sure it that we have very shoddy reporting on this whole incident. As a matter of fact, it's been reported that the woman shot was outside the clinic when she was shot. The male civilian was also shot somewhere outside the clinic.

Lucylastic -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 7:41:53 AM)
please send me the links CD...

tj444 -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 7:58:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: JanahX I mean all I can say is: You. Peoples. Is. One. Dumb. Ass. Mother. Fuckers. Fo. Sho. I would put forth that if the guy was from "the right" and targeting planned parenthood---gee, don't you think he could have walked straight in and starting killing all the employees? that being the case, you have the temerity to call people "on the right" dumb? They actually have better security than most businesses, they have safe rooms, serious security cameras which the cops can view to determine their strategy, they have bullet proof vests, etc.. I expect they probably have bulletproof windows/glass and steel doors w reinforced frames with the best locks possible, etc too.. I would bet banks have poorer security than they do..

BamaD -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 8:01:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic please send me the links CD... If as you quoted the inside was so secure that the nut couldn't get to the people inside PP then the victims had to be shot outside. The police knew there were 3 dead, counting the cop BEFORE they went into PP. They could only know that if they were shot outside.

mnottertail -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 8:03:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I would assume that he was shooting at people going into, or looked like they were going into PP. Either that, or he was trying to rob the bank 'in his confusion' one depositor at a time, what do you think? Since I never said he was trying to rob the bank the only point I can see to your post is a vain attempt to look smarter than you are, to make me look dumb, or to get in good with Lucy. I think we have very shoddy reporting and so we don't know just what happened. I have stated that he may well have been after PP. I have also stated that the information, as it has been doled out, doesn't fit. But we go back to my earlier statement shoddy reporting It isn't 'vain' or an 'attempt' to look smarter than you, that is prima facie. You don't know what happened here? But you know what happened in all them police shootings that were cleared by police? How does that work? You are all we don't know here, so I was giving out some possible scenarios to the feebleminded, all holiday spirited and all.

BamaD -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 8:05:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: JanahX I mean all I can say is: You. Peoples. Is. One. Dumb. Ass. Mother. Fuckers. Fo. Sho. I would put forth that if the guy was from "the right" and targeting planned parenthood---gee, don't you think he could have walked straight in and starting killing all the employees? that being the case, you have the temerity to call people "on the right" dumb? They actually have better security than most businesses, they have safe rooms, serious security cameras which the cops can view to determine their strategy, they have bullet proof vests, etc.. I expect they probably have bulletproof windows/glass and steel doors w reinforced frames with the best locks possible, etc too.. I would bet banks have poorer security than they do.. They wouldn't hide people in those safe rooms till they knew something was going on. That would be when the shooting started outside. If he had just walked in to kill PP people they would have been vulnerable at the outset and he would have been able to kill some of them before they reached safety.

Lucylastic -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 8:07:42 AM)
yanno he had nine(8)? other victims? not just the dead ones. Where is your source?

thompsonx -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 8:11:53 AM)
ORIGINAL: BamaD So if PP has done the things that they have admitted to on camera You know this to be untrue but you choose to pimp this insipid drivel in an attempt to justify this individuals actions.

thompsonx -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 8:13:10 AM)
ORIGINAL: joether Let's see: 1 dumb moron + free and easy access to firearms + total lies from conservative media = many dead civilians and police officers at a Planned Parenthood building. In the usa cops are civilians. Why are you unclear on this?

mnottertail -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 8:13:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: JanahX I mean all I can say is: You. Peoples. Is. One. Dumb. Ass. Mother. Fuckers. Fo. Sho. I would put forth that if the guy was from "the right" and targeting planned parenthood---gee, don't you think he could have walked straight in and starting killing all the employees? that being the case, you have the temerity to call people "on the right" dumb? They actually have better security than most businesses, they have safe rooms, serious security cameras which the cops can view to determine their strategy, they have bullet proof vests, etc.. I expect they probably have bulletproof windows/glass and steel doors w reinforced frames with the best locks possible, etc too.. I would bet banks have poorer security than they do.. They wouldn't hide people in those safe rooms till they knew something was going on. That would be when the shooting started outside. If he had just walked in to kill PP people they would have been vulnerable at the outset and he would have been able to kill some of them before they reached safety. He was smart enough he didnt want to be inside and get taken or get killed by cops in a barricade standoff, a sure loser. most likely scenario. And a lot more public, which is the way to go if you are into the coverage factor.

thompsonx -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 8:16:49 AM)
ORIGINAL: BamaD Why was no one in PP killed? Why are you unhappy about this? How many were shot? You mean you actually believe that the officers outside PP kept him from killing people inside for the FIVE HOURS he held them hostage, According to the reports that is exactly what happened. How many did you want him to kill? what a total disconnect from reallity. You clearly are.

joether -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 8:17:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Where were all the NRA types with their guns? Racing towards the scene of the crime to defend Americans from terrorism? That's right, they were fleeing with everyone else! It appears that the shooting started when the police spotted the guy outside. The gun owners (and Colorado doesn't have loose gun laws) did what they were suppossed to do, stayed out of the cops way. Nobody, but nobody, says armed citizens should shove in to help the large number cops already on the scene. This is a absolutly absurd comment. Compared to Massachusetts, Colorado is VERY loose with firearm laws! I agree, no one is forcing private gun owners to step in and help law enforcement. Yet, we hear on these boards and in the news in general of conservative gun owners stating they would have engaged the hostile target(s) had they been there. Not only engaged but been the winner of the contest of wills. An it is all bullshit. There was one gun with a CCW at the community college in Oregon when it was attacked. He didn't engage because he believed he would be mistaken as the active shooter and killed without question. The right states it needs guns to defend themselves against hostile attackers. Yet, when confronted with hostile targets, they flee with everyone else. What is the point of having a gun if your not going to....STAND YOUR GROUND....like all the political propaganda being dumped from the NRA and like organizations? Isn't that why so many activists want open carry laws? To carry onto schools, courts, and even hospitals? As the bullshit argument goes, to whip it out and gun down the hostile target should it present itself? That in observation and study, when the person with the gun ran away (not part of a well regulated militia) they lived. It is completely opposite of the NRA's message and political viewpoint. That one with a gun might get lucky, but often its a very brave/fool-hardy task to undertake. Colorado is open carry except by local law that prohibits it. If your going to argue open carry, anywhere, then its fair to say you hold a responsibility to engage all hostile targets when things like this happen. Just like any other member of "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State...". That is why firearms exist in our society.....to protect the civilian population from danger. Foreign and domestic! If your not ready (physically, mentally, emotionally) to handle that sort of responsibility with a firearm in open society; then dont carry! Gun nuts want to open carry but not have any responsibility to society. Founding fathers did not have that in mind when they created the 2nd. 'Thugs with guns' was not the concept they were going. But rather, civilians engaging hostile targets in as organized manner as possible, thereby protecting the civilian population from danger. In the 18th century they did not have local, state, and federal law enforcement. Nor a standing, professional, and quick ass-kicking military. If they had all those things in place, would there be a need for the 2nd amendment? Hard to say. But the purpose for the 2nd, was to allow common citizens firearms, but are duty bound to use those arms in defense not swagger around thinking they are bigshots. So I ask....where were all the gun nuts? Why didn't they engage rather than flee?

joether -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 8:30:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: joether Let's see: 1 dumb moron + free and easy access to firearms + total lies from conservative media = many dead civilians and police officers at a Planned Parenthood building. In the usa cops are civilians. Why are you unclear on this? Constitutionally speaking they are not. They are local militia. Actually, "A well regulated militia...". They have rules they have to follow. They answer to civilian government. Have a chain of command that rises up pass the chief of police/captain of police. If those officers get out of line, there is a penalty process that removes them from their duties. We consider police officers to be civilian as a separation from the military due to the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA). Before that point, local law enforcement was the 'same' as any sort of standing military group handling legal problems with reference to the civilian population. Before PCA, if some guy murdered someone, they would call the militia out to hunt down the individual. Just as they would call for a sheriff and his deputies to do the same.

thompsonx -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 8:49:14 AM)
ORIGINAL: joether ORIGINAL: thompsonx In the usa cops are civilians. Why are you unclear on this? Constitutionally speaking they are not. You are full of shit! They are local militia. You are full of shit! We consider police officers to be civilian as a separation from the military due to the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA). Now common' sweetie first you say thay are not then you say they are[8\|] Before that point, local law enforcement was the 'same' as any sort of standing military group handling legal problems with reference to the civilian population. You are full of shit! Before PCA, if some guy murdered someone, they would call the militia out to hunt down the individual. You are full of shit! Just as they would call for a sheriff and his deputies to do the same. Once again sweetie you say they are and are not in the same breath...do you just open your mouth to change feet?

CreativeDominant -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 8:55:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic please send me the links CD... http://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/11/29/civilian-killed-in-planned-parenthood-attack-was-an-iraq-war-veteran/ I was mistaken. This report identifies only the male as being outside. The report says the woman was at the clinic to support a friend but it doesn't say if she was outside, like the male, when she was shot.

thompsonx -> RE: 3 dead 8 injured at PP In Colorado springs (11/30/2015 9:58:47 AM)
You want to argue about what kind of gun was used...why? You want to argue about where the bodies fell...why? You want to argue that this was not a mass shooting by citing an outdated definition of the fbi...why? You want to blame the shooters ex-wife for not prosecuting him on domestic violence...why? You want to argue that the gun was not full automatic..why? You want to depict the shooter as a lone lunatic when there is a nationwide patern of violence against pp...why? You want to make this a 2nd ammedment gun issue ....why? You don't want this to be about someone shooting nearly a dozen people in a pp clinic...why? All of this seems to indicate you approve of this sort of thing...why?

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