RE: Shooting in California (Full Version)

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OsideGirl -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 12:41:03 PM)

NY Times -

quote:

The shift in the investigation game shortly after federal law enforcement officials said the woman who helped carry out the shooting in San Bernardino, Calif., Tashfeen Malik, had pledged allegiance to the Islamic State in a Facebook posting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/us/tashfeen-malik-islamic-state.html?_r=0




Aylee -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 12:45:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

SoCal jihadist wife pledged allegiance to ISIS before massacre, Fox News confirms

Is anyone other than a Democrat really surprised by this?


Really? Must be true if FOX 'news' states it....

On the day this all took place, FOX 'news' was pushing this as terrorism even before any facts were apparent. The moment they knew the names, they simply assumed it was a Muslim attacking the nation; STILL, with no evidence to back that statement up. After the Planned Parenthood attack in which a...

....White....Male....Conservative....Pro-NRA.....Pro-Lifer....armed to the teeth stormed the clinic and did many bad things to good people....

....FOX news needed a story to push upon the Low Information Voters. Someone has an un-English like name = Muslim Terrorist.

The US Government has a very specific set of guidelines that determine if an act of violence is just a crime or terrorism. Because terrorism falls between crime and 'an act of war'. In fact, all three are different concepts. On the surface they all seem the same. But go down a few layers and there are big differences. A crime is simply breaking the law. The person does it not for political or territorial control/dominance. An act of war, is the opening salvo to push civilians away from their living spot, but the attackers are not doing it for petty crime. Petty crime to 'Act of War' is murder in the first.

An Act of terrorism in one in which locals are effected, but the aim of the attack extends beyond those attacked. Linguists have been grappling with defining terrorism. An we should be careful about labeling things to freely. Here is an article about the subject matter.


What kind of invertebrate sees innocents being butchered and wants to rush to protect and make excuses for the butchers?!

Oh right, an ISIS enabling sea slug.






CreativeDominant -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 1:09:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

It is relevant...you just don't like the comparison.

What is relevant is you wish to make this false comparson.
Tell us what is there about those weapons that make them illegal?

Tell you what, why don't you go do that research yourself? If you find I'm wrong, I'm sure you'll bring it here.




mnottertail -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 1:11:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I agree. Why cant I drunk drive? I havent killed anyone.

But you have made a huge argument in favor of shooting any nutsucker who talks about voter id, or muslim bashing or doesnt shoot any self described christian conservative who is white that has a gun.

Nice to see you bring senselessness to the forum...again.




It is still disgusting to see that you have never brought anything but senselessness to the forum...still.




kdsub -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 1:13:34 PM)

quote:

Because the list inaccurate. I've had several clients that ended up on the list. I had a client's 3 year old son end up on the no fly list. The redress procedures through DHS tend to be long and drawn out.


Why not use common sense and address the procedures for appeal... Would that not be the responsible way rather than letting legally purchased weapons in the hands of potential terrorists?

Butch




CreativeDominant -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 1:19:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

SoCal jihadist wife pledged allegiance to ISIS before massacre, Fox News confirms

Is anyone other than a Democrat really surprised by this?


Really? Must be true if FOX 'news' states it....

On the day this all took place, FOX 'news' was pushing this as terrorism even before any facts were apparent. The moment they knew the names, they simply assumed it was a Muslim attacking the nation; STILL, with no evidence to back that statement up. After the Planned Parenthood attack in which a...

....White....Male....Conservative....Pro-NRA.....Pro-Lifer....armed to the teeth stormed the clinic and did many bad things to good people....
And FOX has since been proven right. Tough, is it not, Joether? To have to say that. In the meantime...

James Dear:

White...yep.
Male...even though there's some question, most likely.
Conservative...No proof
Pro-NRA...again, no proof. The NRA...one of those organizations which keeps getting blamed for crimes that NONE OF ITS MEMBERS commit
Pro-Lifer...no definitive proof, but most likely
quote:



....FOX news needed a story to push upon the Low Information Voters. Someone has an un-English like name = Muslim Terrorist.


And sonuvabitch...they and their viewers were...right! Damn, Joether...

quote:

The US Government has a very specific set of guidelines that determine if an act of violence is just a crime or terrorism. Because terrorism falls between crime and 'an act of war'. In fact, all three are different concepts. On the surface they all seem the same. But go down a few layers and there are big differences. A crime is simply breaking the law. The person does it not for political or territorial control/dominance. An act of war, is the opening salvo to push civilians away from their living spot, but the attackers are not doing it for petty crime. Petty crime to 'Act of War' is murder in the first.

An Act of terrorism in one in which locals are effected, but the aim of the attack extends beyond those attacked. Linguists have been grappling with defining terrorism. An we should be careful about labeling things to freely. Here is an article about the subject matter.
See Oside girl's post above.




bounty44 -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 1:28:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

SoCal jihadist wife pledged allegiance to ISIS before massacre, Fox News confirms

Is anyone other than a Democrat really surprised by this?


Really? Must be true if FOX 'news' states it....

On the day this all took place, FOX 'news' was pushing this as terrorism even before any facts were apparent. The moment they knew the names, they simply assumed it was a Muslim attacking the nation; STILL, with no evidence to back that statement up.


speaking of evidence then comrade birdbrain, kindly show the evidence that fox actually did that.


quote:

After the Planned Parenthood attack in which a...

....White....Male....Conservative....Pro-NRA.....Pro-Lifer....armed to the teeth stormed the clinic and did many bad things to good people....


you are without a doubt the biggest moron on the forum. the only part im fully aware of is "male", as to everything else, unless you provide some evidence im going to suggest your observation flows from your unfortunate delusional world. but gee while you are at it, maybe you can make the guy a christian, anti-gay, sexist, and an islamophobe too while you are at it??

quote:

....FOX news needed a story to push upon the Low Information Voters. Someone has an un-English like name = Muslim Terrorist.


see my point above about evidence. people of all "information" levels are on both sides of the political spectrum and can be found watching a variety of news networks. to pretend otherwise---see also my point above about your being a moron. I suppose all those Obama voters and Hillary supporters who cannot tell the difference between Obama's/Hillary's positions and those of their opponents watch fox?

I suppose you preferred the CNN coverage where one of their commentators effectively said right off the bat, hey, this looks like the work of an anti-government militia?

quote:

The US Government has a very specific set of guidelines that determine if an act of violence is just a crime or terrorism. Because terrorism falls between crime and 'an act of war'. In fact, all three are different concepts. On the surface they all seem the same. But go down a few layers and there are big differences. A crime is simply breaking the law. The person does it not for political or territorial control/dominance. An act of war, is the opening salvo to push civilians away from their living spot, but the attackers are not doing it for petty crime. Petty crime to 'Act of War' is murder in the first.

An Act of terrorism in one in which locals are effected, but the aim of the attack extends beyond those attacked. Linguists have been grappling with defining terrorism. An we should be careful about labeling things to freely. Here is an article about the subject matter.


while its true that we do well to define the difference between normal crime and terrorism, rob essentially gave you evidence of the woman in questions connection to isis. what more might you want? or do you just like the intellectual masturbation?

while im here, linguists don't define acts or even words for that matter, they study language. and no, word definitions don't constitute language. the distinction between criminal acts and terrorism acts is a philosophical, not a linguistic one.

(thankfully you got out of that post without mucking up who and whom...but im sure you'll be right back at it as soon as those words are required)




CreativeDominant -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 1:36:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I agree. Why cant I drunk drive? I havent killed anyone.

But you have made a huge argument in favor of shooting any nutsucker who talks about voter id, or muslim bashing or doesnt shoot any self described christian conservative who is white that has a gun.

Nice to see you bring senselessness to the forum...again.

If it's you thinking that, I've got nothing to worry about.


It is still disgusting to see that you have never brought anything but senselessness to the forum...still.






OsideGirl -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 1:47:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Because the list inaccurate. I've had several clients that ended up on the list. I had a client's 3 year old son end up on the no fly list. The redress procedures through DHS tend to be long and drawn out.


Why not use common sense and address the procedures for appeal... Would that not be the responsible way rather than letting legally purchased weapons in the hands of potential terrorists?

Butch

That would be "guilty until proven innocent" and restricting the Constitutional rights on an innocent person until the situation is resolved.

It would be like restricting the rights of Muslims to practice their religion until they've proven that they're not a potential terrorist.




kdsub -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 1:59:17 PM)

No it would not be... just another qualification for gun ownership. Just as you must show you are not insane or a felon. If your name was wrongly on a no fly list then it would only be correcting a mistake not taking away a right... If you were wrongly accused of having a felonious record you would not be allowed to obtain a weapon until it was resolved... There are no rights being taken away just mistakes rectified.

Butch




thompsonx -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 2:03:47 PM)


ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


ORIGINAL: thompsonx



What is relevant is you wish to make this false comparson.
Tell us what is there about those weapons that make them illegal?



Tell you what, why don't you go do that research yourself? If you find I'm wrong, I'm sure you'll bring it here.

I have proved you wrong on so many occassions that it boggles the mind.
If you had a clue what a bullet button was you would know that all that was done to that weapon to make it illegal was take out the ten round magazine and insert the larger one.
The next question is how can you run your mouth so freely with so little knowledge of what you are talking about.







thompsonx -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 2:35:18 PM)

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

NY Times -

The shift in the investigation game shortly after federal law enforcement officials said the woman who helped carry out the shooting in San Bernardino, Calif., Tashfeen Malik, had pledged allegiance to the Islamic State in a Facebook posting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/05/us/tashfeen-malik-islamic-state.html?_r=0
From your cite:
Tashfeen Malik’s declaration of allegiance to the Islamic State was posted on Facebook about 11 a.m. Wednesday, roughly the time of the shooting, according to people briefed on the investigation. At a news conference in San Bernardino, David Bowdich, the F.B.I. assistant director in charge of the Los Angeles office, said he was aware of the post, but would not say how much it influenced the decision to investigate the massacre as an act of terrorism, or what other information played a role in that shift.


This was written in new york this morning.
The fbi this morning stated that the facebook posting was in another name not in her name. They were trying to validate that it was her by retrieving as much data as they can from the cell phones that the two tried to destroy. The language in the ny times article is a little waffley...
Given what we know so far it would seem a reasonable conclusion to jump to but I will wait until the fbi confirms that it was in fact her with a different account.
Remember the first reports were that there were three shooters and that they were wearing body armor and firing full auto. Now we know from the fbi that there were only two and that they were not wearing body armor and that the gun fire was all semi-auto.























































































thompsonx -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 2:41:47 PM)

What kind of invertebrate sees innocents being butchered

The word you are looking for is slaughtered not butchered...the former is the killing the later is the cutting up.


and wants to rush to protect and make excuses for the butchers?!

Oh right, an ISIS enabling sea slug.

One mans "butchered" is another mans "colateral damage"[8|]




BamaD -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 2:54:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

SoCal jihadist wife pledged allegiance to ISIS before massacre, Fox News confirms

Is anyone other than a Democrat really surprised by this?


Really? Must be true if FOX 'news' states it....

On the day this all took place, FOX 'news' was pushing this as terrorism even before any facts were apparent. The moment they knew the names, they simply assumed it was a Muslim attacking the nation; STILL, with no evidence to back that statement up. After the Planned Parenthood attack in which a...

....White....Male....Conservative....Pro-NRA.....Pro-Lifer....armed to the teeth stormed the clinic and did many bad things to good people....

....FOX news needed a story to push upon the Low Information Voters. Someone has an un-English like name = Muslim Terrorist.

The US Government has a very specific set of guidelines that determine if an act of violence is just a crime or terrorism. Because terrorism falls between crime and 'an act of war'. In fact, all three are different concepts. On the surface they all seem the same. But go down a few layers and there are big differences. A crime is simply breaking the law. The person does it not for political or territorial control/dominance. An act of war, is the opening salvo to push civilians away from their living spot, but the attackers are not doing it for petty crime. Petty crime to 'Act of War' is murder in the first.

An Act of terrorism in one in which locals are effected, but the aim of the attack extends beyond those attacked. Linguists have been grappling with defining terrorism. An we should be careful about labeling things to freely. Here is an article about the subject matter.

It wasn't just Fox that says they are affiliated with ISIS. ISIS has been congratulating them. Claiming they are conservative "gun nuts" is just stupid.
Every time you describe their actions and claim it proves they are conservatives you descibe ISIS not American conservatives.




LadyConstanze -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 2:59:33 PM)

I can congratulate you, doesn't mean I'm sincere or affiliated with you...

As for Faulx News, have you already forgotten the law suit they won saying they are not news but entertainment and therefore not required to be truthful?

Details, details




BamaD -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 2:59:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Because the list inaccurate. I've had several clients that ended up on the list. I had a client's 3 year old son end up on the no fly list. The redress procedures through DHS tend to be long and drawn out.


Why not use common sense and address the procedures for appeal... Would that not be the responsible way rather than letting legally purchased weapons in the hands of potential terrorists?

Butch

Why not use common sense and fix the list, Id people on it by more than name. What you should be outraged about isn't that the list isn't sticking it to more people but that it is set up so incompetently that is of little real value. How about fixing the list before demanding that it is used against more people?




mnottertail -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 3:00:38 PM)

I dont know, what are the seminal and defining differences between them and Robert Dear, Adam Lanza, Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, ad nauseam?




kdsub -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 3:04:07 PM)

Why not do both Bama?




CreativeDominant -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 3:06:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


ORIGINAL: thompsonx


What is relevant is you wish to make this false comparson.
Tell us what is there about those weapons that make them illegal?



Tell you what, why don't you go do that research yourself? If you find I'm wrong, I'm sure you'll bring it here.

I have proved you wrong on so many occassions that it boggles the mind.
If you had a clue what a bullet button was you would know that all that was done to that weapon to make it illegal was take out the ten round magazine and insert the larger one.
The next question is how can you run your mouth so freely with so little knowledge of what you are talking about.


Actually, that's a better question for you. You profess to all this knowledge but rarely bring a cite forward, just your opinion or a derogatory comment.

You insist that others do research and bring it forth...with an original source...yet never do so yourself. Are we all just supposed to assume every snide thing you say or flippantly offered opinion offered as fact is right? Are we supposed to acknowledge that when you don't answer back to sources cited that you're just correct and can't be bothered? Maybe your fan club buys that from you but plenty of us do not.

As to your comment about the illegality, I knew that. Here's the point...was the weapon then, after that modification, illegal? The answer is "yes, it was".




BamaD -> RE: Shooting in California (12/4/2015 3:09:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No it would not be... just another qualification for gun ownership. Just as you must show you are not insane or a felon. If your name was wrongly on a no fly list then it would only be correcting a mistake not taking away a right... If you were wrongly accused of having a felonious record you would not be allowed to obtain a weapon until it was resolved... There are no rights being taken away just mistakes rectified.

Butch

Putting inoccent people on the list infringes their rights as it is.
No proof is needed to get on the list, taking any action beased on no facts is an infringement of their rights.
It takes years to get off the list ( unless you have the pull of Ted Kennedy), they don't have to tell you how they ruled or even if they ruled, and you can go right back on the list because your name is simular to someone elses ( as happened to Ted Kennedy). The list as currently constituted is a violation of peoples rights, and not just their gun rights. But hey anything to keep people from getting guns right? I suspect one reason it isn't done is that the insuing lawsuits would put an end to the list.




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